We need to educate and get out in front of this stuff!

[1signguy]

Just read this- Trophy hunter who shot rare snow leopard prompts fury with photo of killed big cat

I think our sport/lifestyle... needs to consider ways of getting out in front of these sort of reports. I find it highly unlikely anyone would pose for photos if what they had done was in any way illegal... More than likely this animal was taken because it afforded better protections/research etc for these beautiful cats...

We need to do a lot more to help educate others so that they understand hunting!

 

[gelton]

A couple of points that should be considered -

1. supposedly this pic was taken in 2008 and was written about in a book he wrote.
2. contrary to the claims that snow leopard hunting is illegal, Tajikistan still allows it.
3. we as hunters should do a better job of promoting trophy hunting - if people were always holding out for a trophy only the most mature specimens would be taken from the herd. People who dont trophy hunt (including myself) take younger animals that have not been able to procreate as well as females.

Not a cat hunter, and have no idea of who this guy is, but it looks like this is deception and disinformation all rolled into one. But yes I agree that putting a price on the prize does way more to protect them than anything else...currently their number one predator is farmers.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Copy and paste this for those times when you wanna make a solid point:


The only way to truly protect animals is to be pro-hunting. I realize this seems crazy to many but what most folks don’t know is that hunters fund over 75% of the wildlife management in America. They are the means by which an ecosystem is balanced, taking the necessary number of animals (as determined by wildlife biologists) to sustain healthy populations of every species. There is a limit to what any area can support, this is called its “carrying capacity” & must be maintained. That requires removal of some animals to prevent overpopulation. Understand the movie Lion King? It’s about maintaining a balance. Hunters provide & fund that balance, not treehuggers. If an animal population exceeds the carrying capacity of a region, you then see mass die-offs of a species…sometimes multiple species. They die from a lack of resources (food, water, bedding grounds) as well as exposure, and disease. But the biggest benefit to animals comes from HUNTER LOBBYING, FUNDING AND HABITAT PRESERVATION AND RESTORATION.

Take bison for example. Many people believe hunters nearly wiped them out and the government stepped in to protect them. The truth is exactly the opposite. The government commissioned the killing of North American bison to win the Indian wars. It was hunters who successfully lobbied the U.S. Congress for the protection of bison (some call em buffalo) and began breeding them. In the decades since they have been brought back from the brink of extinction to over half a million. There would be more but urban sprawl limits the unbridled wild breeding of these magnificent beasts.

Here's 10 Reasons Why Hunting is Conservation.

Reason No. 1 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1907, only 41,000 elk remained in North America. Thanks to the money and hard work invested by hunters to restore and conserve habitat, today there are more than 1 million.

Reason No. 2 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1900, only 500,000 whitetails remained. Thanks to conservation work spearheaded by hunters, today there are more than 32 million.

Reason No. 3 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1900, only 100,000 wild turkeys remained. Thanks to hunters, today there are over 7 million.

Reason No. 4 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1901, few ducks remained. Thanks to hunters’ efforts to restore and conserve wetlands, today there are more than 44 million.

Reason No. 5 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1950, only 12,000 pronghorn remained. Thanks to hunters, today there are more than 1.1 million.

Reason No. 6 why Hunting Is Conservation: Habitat, research and wildlife law enforcement work, all paid for by hunters, help countless non-hunted species.

Reason No. 7 why Hunting Is Conservation: Through state licenses and fees, hunters pay $796 million a year for conservation programs.*

Reason No. 8 why Hunting Is Conservation: Through donations to groups like RMEF, hunters add $440 million a year to conservation efforts.*

Reason No. 9 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1937, hunters actually requested an 11% tax on guns, ammo, bows and arrows to help fund conservation. That tax, so far, raised more than $7.2 billion for wildlife conservation.*

Reason No. 10 why Hunting Is Conservation: An 11% tax on guns, ammo, bows and arrows generates $371 million a year for conservation.*

*financial info via America’s Sporting Heritage: Fueling the American Economy (January 2013) & Hunting in America: An Economic Force for Conservation (January 2013)

If you truly care about the future of animals you will join us hunters in preserving them and fight the idiots who claim to be conservationists while “reintroducing” large species of wolves into areas they never actually lived before. Wolves are a huge problem adversely impacting all big game species. But don’t take my word for it…do your homework and look beyond the talking points of organizations who survive on grants to promote a single ideology or species protection. You cannot protect and preserve generations of all species if you don’t focus on all species and the carrying capacity constraints that determine their growth or decline. Hunters successfully preserve and improve animal populations (as proven above) and if you kill hunting then the animals die with it. Don’t be gullible…talk to hunters with an open mind and heart. You will discover they are the most passionate and actively engaged conservationists there are. Nobody does more for animals than hunters.

Even the liberals in Berkeley understand that without hunters and the wildlife management they fund, there would be no top predators left in Africa. See the research for yourself.
Lion King: Berkeley Carnivore Research Works to Halt the Decline of African Predators | California Magazine

 

[mrgreen]

Great article, thanks Where's Bruce?.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

It shuts up most but there are still close-minded people so entrenched in their hate they will dismiss these facts as BS. I imagine they are Trump haters with purple hair, piercings, tats, hipster glasses and an IQ comparable to their shoe size. I have a special message for them when I encounter em.

Dear Non-Hunters,
Just because your antibiotic & steroid-infused meat from imprisoned genetically engineered cows raised in filthy stalls comes in a nice, clean plastic-wrapped Styrofoam container…doesn't mean something didn't die. And don't pretend you're better just because somebody else kills your meat for you. Prior to the building of the railroads, most people killed their own meat in America, still a common practice in many parts of the world. One day the grocery store will be filled with empty shelves & broken glass. As you slowly starve to death after eating your lawn, we hunters will still be enjoying our barbecues.

Ohhh the irony. Inner city treehuggers living in a man-made artificial world claiming to be superior & more naturally harmonic than hunters. Your walk in the park is literally that, a man-made play area nestled in the concrete jungle. You are afraid to venture into a National Park filled with wildlife and where your cell phone cannot get a signal. In the real natural world you would die quickly…of ignorance. Nature is unforgiving of fools. If you can’t hunt, fish & gather…you are food for predators, birds, rodents & insects. If your fake world suddenly came to a halt, no electricity, no water, no food…you’d turn on each other like vicious animals. (insert Katrina & New Orleans here)

You don’t know the first thing about nature. You have to actually spend time in the backcountry far from roads & people to understand her. It is the person who can survive & thrive there that is in harmony with nature…not you. You’d just die.

 

[mvmnts]

It shuts up most but there are still close-minded people so entrenched in their hate they will dismiss these facts as BS. I imagine they are Trump haters with purple hair, piercings, tats, hipster glasses and an IQ comparable to their shoe size. I have a special message for them when I encounter em.

Dear Non-Hunters,
Just because your antibiotic & steroid-infused meat from imprisoned genetically engineered cows raised in filthy stalls comes in a nice clean plastic-wrapped Styrofoam container…it doesn't mean something didn't die. And don't pretend you're better just because somebody else kills your meat for you. Prior to the building of the railroads, most people killed their own meat in America, still a common practice in many parts of the world. One day the grocery store will be filled with empty shelves & broken glass. As you slowly starve to death after eating your lawn, we hunters will still be enjoying our barbecues.

Ohhh the irony. Inner city treehuggers living in a man-made artificial world claiming to be superior & more naturally harmonic than hunters. Your walk in the park is literally that, a man-made play area nestled in the concrete jungle. You are afraid to venture into a National Park filled with wildlife and where your cell phone cannot get a signal. In the real natural world you would die quickly…of ignorance. Nature is unforgiving of fools. If you can’t hunt, fish & gather…you are food for predators, birds, rodents & insects. If your fake world suddenly came to a halt, no electricity, no water, no food…you’d turn on each other like vicious animals. (insert Katrina & New Orleans here)

You don’t know the first thing about nature. You have to actually spend time in the backcountry far from roads & people to understand her. It is the person who can survive & thrive there that is in harmony with nature…not you. You’d just die.

I guarantee that you've never changed a single mind or heart with this self aggrandizing drivel. It's great if you want to feel smug, but you're not helping your own cause.

 

[blackpowderhunter]

I guarantee that you've never changed a single mind or heart with this self aggrandizing drivel. It's great if you want to feel smug, but you're not helping your own cause.

my thoughts exactly...
what you did right there was try to generalize every person who doesn't hunt or didn't vote for trump as some extreme hipster trying to end hunting...
that is doing the exact some thing that is causing the issue we face with some non hunters, who generalize every hunter into a beer drinking slob hunter going around shooting every animal in sight just for the fun of it.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I guarantee that you've never changed a single mind or heart with this self aggrandizing drivel. It's great if you want to feel smug, but you're not helping your own cause.

Reread the opening 3 lines of that post. I said this was my reply to those with closed and hate-filled minds who reject the facts about the true benefits of hunting. That second response is not intended to sway opinion of those antis who hate us, it is merely my way of discrediting them as morons. Usually my 1st response with the list of benefits ends the conversation but there are always a few unhinged wingnuts who spout off, often attacking the messenger because they cannot argue the message. They dismiss us as cretins, backward-thinking cavemen who thirst for blood to offset a phallic shortcoming. Surely you've seen the way some people lose their minds about hunting, suggesting the hunter be killed or worse. So I get personal right back and dismiss them as food for the bugs which is exactly what they'd be if they left the trailhead on foot. Some people are simply too stupid to grasp that hunting can be good for animals and nothing you claim will ever change their mind. They are blissful in their ignorance.

 

[AndyB]

Try this. Education is key and this is a well written report from a non biased party.

Dropbox - Hunting_and_tourism_-_key_partners_for_conservation_April_2017.pdf

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Try this. Education is key and this is a well written report from a non biased party.

Dropbox - Hunting_and_tourism_-_key_partners_for_conservation_April_2017.pdf

Great stuff! Gonna use that for sure! Puts the benefits of hunting in Africa right there in their faces. Hunters literally saving multiple species from extinction! That's pure gold. But the purple-haired hipster doesn't really care. Hunters are their sworn enemy and they don't read.

 

[AndyB]

Great stuff! Gonna use that for sure! Puts the benefits of hunting in Africa right there in their faces. Hunters literally saving multiple species from extinction! That's pure gold. But the purple-haired hipster doesn't really care. Hunters are their sworn enemy and they don't read.

Agreed, but its the non-hunter we should aim at, who are the vast majority,

 

[quackaddict]

Dear Non-Hunters,
Just because your antibiotic & steroid-infused meat from imprisoned genetically engineered cows raised in filthy stalls comes in a nice, clean plastic-wrapped Styrofoam container…

Speaking of dismissing facts...

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Speaking of dismissing facts...

Come here to California and I'll show you. They use UV lights to sanitize the meat instead of actually removing the manure from it. Gotta sick cow down that can no longer stand up? No prob...a tractor will get to the slaughtering house.

 

[quackaddict]

Ok Bruce...Ok.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Ok Bruce...Ok.

I worked for a major CA dairy...you don't even wanna know what goes on.

 

[quackaddict]

There's a huge difference between the dairy industry and the beef industry. I've spent the time in slaughter plants and dairies, so I'm not just shooting from the hip either.

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[mvmnts]

Reread the opening 3 lines of that post. I said this was my reply to those with closed and hate-filled minds who reject the facts about the true benefits of hunting. That second response is not intended to sway opinion of those antis who hate us, it is merely my way of discrediting them as morons. Usually my 1st response with the list of benefits ends the conversation but there are always a few unhinged wingnuts who spout off, often attacking the messenger because they cannot argue the message. They dismiss us as cretins, backward-thinking cavemen who thirst for blood to offset a phallic shortcoming. Surely you've seen the way some people lose their minds about hunting, suggesting the hunter be killed or worse. So I get personal right back and dismiss them as food for the bugs which is exactly what they'd be if they left the trailhead on foot. Some people are simply too stupid to grasp that hunting can be good for animals and nothing you claim will ever change their mind. They are blissful in their ignorance.

Yeah it was filled with a ton of stereotypes that 1) have nothing to do with support or hatred of hunting 2) rarely exist that often outside of the internet. I know there are lots of people who are just like that, but they are a tiny minority in the big scheme of things, just like us. Most people are ambivalent towards hunting, and they are looking at you to inform their opinion. Just like they are dismissing us as blood thirsty backward thinking cretins, you are doing the exact same thing trying to conflate hair color and tattoos and piercing and thick rimmed glasses with crazy peta loving antis. Is the irony completely lost on you? Either way dude, you're just taking the low road, and it makes you look like an angsty teenager to other bystanders who read your posts. You're never going to convince those stupid crazy people so you're better off not engaging them, certainly not like that. If people are getting you riled up, and trust me, they get me too sometimes, just step away from the keyboard if you aren't having a conversation. A shouting match makes both sides look bad, and we can't afford that. Or just keep doing whatever you like, that's fine too. Not going to argue over nothing all week

 

[tipsntails7]

It shuts up most but there are still close-minded people so entrenched in their hate they will dismiss these facts as BS. I imagine they are Trump haters with purple hair, piercings, tats, hipster glasses and an IQ comparable to their shoe size. I have a special message for them when I encounter em.

Dear Non-Hunters,
Just because your antibiotic & steroid-infused meat from imprisoned genetically engineered cows raised in filthy stalls comes in a nice, clean plastic-wrapped Styrofoam container…doesn't mean something didn't die. And don't pretend you're better just because somebody else kills your meat for you. Prior to the building of the railroads, most people killed their own meat in America, still a common practice in many parts of the world. One day the grocery store will be filled with empty shelves & broken glass. As you slowly starve to death after eating your lawn, we hunters will still be enjoying our barbecues.

Ohhh the irony. Inner city treehuggers living in a man-made artificial world claiming to be superior & more naturally harmonic than hunters. Your walk in the park is literally that, a man-made play area nestled in the concrete jungle. You are afraid to venture into a National Park filled with wildlife and where your cell phone cannot get a signal. In the real natural world you would die quickly…of ignorance. Nature is unforgiving of fools. If you can’t hunt, fish & gather…you are food for predators, birds, rodents & insects. If your fake world suddenly came to a halt, no electricity, no water, no food…you’d turn on each other like vicious animals. (insert Katrina & New Orleans here)

You don’t know the first thing about nature. You have to actually spend time in the backcountry far from roads & people to understand her. It is the person who can survive & thrive there that is in harmony with nature…not you. You’d just die.

This is the biggest pile of dogshit I have ever seen on this sight.

Stop interacting with people and displaying yourself as a "hunter" your not doing any of us any favors. say nothing and walk away, as your soaking bridges in gasoline that others given the chance may actually be able to repair, and please stop regurgitating random snippets from other peoples writing. Its sterilizing and immediately off putting if you actually interact with people in that way.

You offer literally ZERO insight into the thread topic at hand... Zero.

No mention of the fact that contrary to geltons statement, I cannot find Anywhere where snow leopard hunting is legal. even on Tajikistan's wildlife site, but I look forward to anyone providing a credible source to refute that.

No mention of the fact that the first snow leopard collard was in 2015, so to think that ANY of these countries that posses any leopards have a clue about the population, the densities, their behaviors and if their area can even sustain a level of take if any is quite ridiculous.

No mention about the inadequacy of these countries "wildlife biologists", their funding, their expertise, their intentions, or even their desire to manage wildlife properly. That is why almost ALL of the studies that have been conducted are third party projects that have the blessing of the country, yet the expertise and the funding comes from somewhere else.

No mention of the fact that most people who live in the leopard range actually view them as a sacred being, and the biggest threat to snow leopards is the biggest threat to every animal, Human encroachment on their territories, and poaching.

People constantly hark back to the American "hunters are conservation" models but conveniently forget that we imposed regulations on our self, we chose to pull money out of our pocket, and most importantly we imposed hunting bans or restrictions on species until they reached viable population levels to sustain take. we actually placed a value on these animals above a simple monetary dollar value. most other countries do not share this same ideal about wildlife as we do. Your opinion on wolves is pretty well known and quite distasteful, so you obviously only value animals that have a value to you (or in your eyes), that is not a conservationist.

There is not enough data available to make an educated assumption that snow leopards should or could be hunted, hunting for conservation is not just a simple catch phrase do all silver bullet.

I have no idea about the specific leopard in that specific photo, and I wouldn't even go as far to say that that is an actual news article as there is zero information regarding that actual situation, but what I do know is most things in life are much more complicated then just answering with a simple cut and paste.

 

[Jacob_Outdoors]

I worked for a major CA dairy...you don't even wanna know what goes on.

So a thread about not generalizing hunters turns into you generalizing all dairy/beef ranchers?

I️ grew up cattle ranching, what goes on at some places doesn’t happen everywhere. Much like a few hunters don’t represent the majority.


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[Topo_trekker]

So a thread about not generalizing hunters turns into you generalizing all dairy/beef ranchers?

I️ grew up cattle ranching, what goes on at some places doesn’t happen everywhere. Much like a few hunters don’t represent the majority.


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I agree. People have always had the opportunity to buy quality meat from a reputable source and get it processed at their place of choice. Even if you live in a big city in California...do most people take the time, no. My family has been running a small cattle operation in Iowa for 150+ years. Most people in rural areas are more conscious than you'd think about where they get their meat. Unfortunately these same small farms get lumped into the "cattle industry" thing. Don't hate, educate.


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