What are your thoughts on the Kung Flu?

[307]

The swedish experiment is not going so well.

Stockholm Won't Reach Herd Immunity In May, Sweden's Chief Epidemiologist Says

Sweden's controversial strategy has become a rallying cry of anti-lockdown protesters in the U.S. But not even the official behind the country's coronavirus approach is sure it was the right call.

www.npr.org

Sweden's Public Health Agency last week released the initial findings of an ongoing antibodies study that showed that only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had developed antibodies against COVID-19 by late April. Tegnell later described the study's figure as a "bit lower than we'd thought," adding that the study represented a snapshot of the situation some weeks ago and he believed that by now "a little more than 20%" of Stockholm's population should have contracted the virus.

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Way, WAY too early to draw conclusions. It will literally be a couple of years before they'll know which side of the equation was "right" or even if there was a right/wrong...

We're still in the first quarter of this ball game.

 

[durangobrad]

Way, WAY too early to draw conclusions. It will literally be a couple of years before they'll know which side of the equation was "right" or even if there was a right/wrong...

We're still in the first quarter of this ball game.

What I meant by not going so well, is they thought they would be much closer to heard immunity by now. They estimate they need 60% population with antibodies, but only at 7% so far. That's the only conclusion I'm drawing.

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[Mosster47]

What I meant by not going so well, is they thought they would be much closer to heard immunity by now. They estimate they need 60% population with antibodies, but only at 7% so far. That's the only conclusion I'm drawing.

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That 7.3% number is interesting because it's not much different than most areas that have locked down and did a random antibodies test.

 

[ramsdude47]

Ultimate takeaway for me from this whole thing is that I'm really glad it wasn't that bad - though it is definitely worse than most folks on here seem to think (long term lung capacity decrease, organ dysfunction, coagulation dysfunction, neuro implications, etc). The restrictions could have been lifted much sooner, particularly in rural areas. The one size fits all approach never works, but I do understand the rationale for it initially.

And if we ever do have a considerably more serious pandemic, this country is in trouble. Our country as a whole is WAYYYYYYY too entitled.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Sometimes its difficult to see the forest through all of the trees.

The data is somewhat poor due to many factors (despite the efforts of very smart people working very hard) and different interpretations will obviously occur. That doesn't make every dissenting nor confirming idea a conspiracy, nor political, nor the fault of the "other guys". It's just complicated, and anybody who thinks its simple, or obviously black and white, is probably too stupid to be taken seriously.

We will have a much better view of this pandemic, in about 5 years. Until then, we do the best we can with the data we have.

I totally agree. So, what part of the data suggests we aren’t currently on the right track?

 

[WV Mountaineer]

What I meant by not going so well, is they thought they would be much closer to heard immunity by now. They estimate they need 60% population with antibodies, but only at 7% so far. That's the only conclusion I'm drawing.

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I’d think a critical thinker would Also wander for a disease so easily spread, why is there such a small amount of people to this point with antibodies?

 

[Dustin the wind]

Soooo is everyone still going to die if a hunter touches a gas pump ooooor?

 

[Glockster26]

Ding dong the witch is dead, figuratively of course!

Gov. Kelly vetoes bill limiting emergency powers, leaves reopening plan up to counties

Gov. Laura Kelly announced Tuesday afternoon her plan to veto the

www.kwch.com

After the AG states her reopening plan restrictions are unenforceable, the legislature moves to strip her of her power concerning covid, and most people Ignoring it anyway, she decides to end her plan early.

“Along with the new declaration, the governor Tuesday lifted all executive orders on business restrictions and gathering size limits. She said her Ad Astra Plan will now only serve as guidance and specific orders are now up to individual counties.”

 

[307]

I’d think a critical thinker would Also wander for a disease so easily spread, why is there such a small amount of people to this point with antibodies?

Are you under the impression that Sweden is living the same as they did before Covid-19?

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

Man finds 83 ballots shipped to single address in his apt building

Jerry Mosna found 83 mail-in ballots shipped to his apartment complex in San Pedro, California this weekend

www.dailymail.co.uk

Related to kung flu in the fact that they are trying to destroy Trump (covid included politically) any way they can.

 

[Backyard]

Man finds 83 ballots shipped to single address in his apt building

Jerry Mosna found 83 mail-in ballots shipped to his apartment complex in San Pedro, California this weekend

www.dailymail.co.uk

Related to kung flu in the fact that they are trying to destroy Trump (covid included politically) any way they can.

They
Right

 

[gearguywb]

Sucks that every single thing is now politicized. News is for entertainment value, and it doesn't make the news if it doesn't fit an agenda.

Just really sad.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Are you under the impression that Sweden is living the same as they did before Covid-19?

Nope. Just well aware they took a vastly different approach then the US did. And, seem to be setup for a longer haul through this if models of herd immunity are correct.

My point being of asking these questions is simple. A good bit of people seem to think we are going to mitigate a different end result By saving lives. When we’ve been told it isn’t a question of if we get it individually. Just a question of when.

We’ve been told it’s the presidents fault, we’ve been told staying at home is the only true way to prevent it. We’ve been told it’s so different then what’s it’s shaping up to be. It doesn’t hurt young people. Now it’s causing disease in young people. Etc...

In other words, we’ve been told a lot of things by professional people who truly don’t know the answers. Yet, it’s ok for them to instate in our lives because they are healthcare professionals. You’ve even said as much in your posts.

Here is the deal. We’d better get busy living with a virus that kills less then 1% of the people it infects. Across all ages. It’s likely been here longer then we think or we’d all have it by now. And, we can’t all set at home waiting for the answers 5 years from now.

 

[307]

Nope. Just well aware they took a vastly different approach then the US did. And, seem to be setup for a longer haul through this if models of herd immunity are correct.

My point being of asking these questions is simple. A good bit of people seem to think we are going to mitigate a different end result By saving lives. When we’ve been told it isn’t a question of if we get it individually. Just a question of when.

We’ve been told it’s the presidents fault, we’ve been told staying at home is the only true way to prevent it. We’ve been told it’s so different then what’s it’s shaping up to be. It doesn’t hurt young people. Now it’s causing disease in young people. Etc...

In other words, we’ve been told a lot of things by professional people who truly don’t know the answers. Yet, it’s ok for them to instate in our lives because they are healthcare professionals. You’ve even said as much in your posts.

Here is the deal. We’d better get busy living with a virus that kills less then 1% of the people it infects. Across all ages. It’s likely been here longer then we think or we’d all have it by now. And, we can’t all set at home waiting for the answers 5 years from now.

This is armchair quarterbacking at its finest. You're saying this at the end of May. Decisions to shut things down were about 2 months ago, when the picture looked MUCH different. 2 months ago, things looked a lot more concerning. We know a lot of things now that were simply unknown then. Data has improved significantly. We have a much better (though still inadequate) understanding of this virus and its consequences at the end of May than we did in Feb/March... Pretty easy to sit here with the benefit of current information and criticize those decisions.

If you're holding the ball 2 months ago, and your primary responsibility is to prevent unnecessary suffering and death, what the hell would you have done?

Public health experts are there to emphasize public health (shocking!!!), it's the responsibility of other leaders/experts to weigh those recommendations against other factors (economic primarily, in this case). The epidemiologist can't be expected to also be an economist...

At this point, knowing what we know now, I think most experts agree that we can open and most people are certainly "over it" when it comes to staying at home. We're far from done learning about this virus, and making a variety of mistakes for a variety of reasons.

And the armchair quarterbacks are certainly not done either...

 

[WV Mountaineer]

This is armchair quarterbacking at its finest. You're saying this at the end of May. Decisions to shut things down were about 2 months ago, when the picture looked MUCH different. 2 months ago, things looked a lot more concerning. We know a lot of things now that were simply unknown then. Data has improved significantly. We have a much better (though still inadequate) understanding of this virus and its consequences at the end of May than we did in Feb/March... Pretty easy to sit here with the benefit of current information and criticize those decisions.

If you're holding the ball 2 months ago, and your primary responsibility is to prevent unnecessary suffering and death, what the hell would you have done?

Public health experts are there to emphasize public health (shocking!!!), it's the responsibility of other leaders/experts to weigh those recommendations against other factors (economic primarily, in this case). The epidemiologist can't be expected to also be an economist...

At this point, knowing what we know now, I think most experts agree that we can open and most people are certainly "over it" when it comes to staying at home. We're far from done learning about this virus, and making a variety of mistakes for a variety of reasons.

And the armchair quarterbacks are certainly not done either...

The results we are seeing isn't a new revelation. Its been talked about for months. Literally. Just because you dismissed it doesn't mean it isn't so. Continuing to do so is also your right. But, that doesn't change reality.

I think I have stated numerous times what I thought about the response to this. You must have missed that too.

As far as arm chair quarterbacking, I asked what your personal experience was concerning treating patients with covid 19. I received zero response to that and I assume it is because you have none or very little. But, you feel compelled to act as if that isn't the case and chastise anyone outside of health care that looks at the data health professionals have provided while treating this. If you aren't treating these patients, then what are you doing to get your info?

Here is reality as we know it now. We don't know anything for sure. We will know more next month then we do now. Also, that will continue for a long time. And, we have two choices at this point. Get busy living or get in line for beans and rice.

 

[307]

The results we are seeing isn't a new revelation. Its been talked about for months. Literally. Just because you dismissed it doesn't mean it isn't so. Continuing to do so is also your right. But, that doesn't change reality.

I think I have stated numerous times what I thought about the response to this. You must have missed that too.

As far as arm chair quarterbacking, I asked what your personal experience was concerning treating patients with covid 19. I received zero response to that and I assume it is because you have none or very little. But, you feel compelled to act as if that isn't the case and chastise anyone outside of health care that looks at the data health professionals have provided while treating this. If you aren't treating these patients, then what are you doing to get your info?

Here is reality as we know it now. We don't know anything for sure. We will know more next month then we do now. Also, that will continue for a long time. And, we have two choices at this point. Get busy living or get in line for beans and rice.

The results are absolutely "new revelations". It's a NOVEL virus. Nobody had much of a clue what it was actually going to do, including people who study this and have been through related episodes (SARS, MERS, Ebola, etc.) in the past. Nobody knew. To act as if you KNEW is completely laughable.

You may have guessed correctly. Congrats! But the actual experts have a lot more responsibility than a random message board poster. If they're wrong, people die unnecessarily. They didn't know, just like you didn't know, but they couldn't guess. Since they didn't know, they had to err to the side of caution.

If the shut down worked, then everybody would claim it wasn't necessary and was an overreaction. That's exactly how you'd know it was effective... This is exactly what you're doing.

Your ad hominem attempt to discredit me is irrelevant and doesn't deserve a response. YOU are the one second guessing the experts, YOU have the entire burden of proof.

 

[blueyceman]

The results we are seeing isn't a new revelation. Its been talked about for months. Literally. Just because you dismissed it doesn't mean it isn't so. Continuing to do so is also your right. But, that doesn't change reality.

I think I have stated numerous times what I thought about the response to this. You must have missed that too.

As far as arm chair quarterbacking, I asked what your personal experience was concerning treating patients with covid 19. I received zero response to that and I assume it is because you have none or very little. But, you feel compelled to act as if that isn't the case and chastise anyone outside of health care that looks at the data health professionals have provided while treating this. If you aren't treating these patients, then what are you doing to get your info?

Here is reality as we know it now. We don't know anything for sure. We will know more next month then we do now. Also, that will continue for a long time. And, we have two choices at this point. Get busy living or get in line for beans and rice.

I disagree entirely with the two choices point. Many shades of gray exist. One can go out and about, live life, but continue to be cautious, wear a mask indoors in public, etc. Still limit the total number of places one visits in a day to something less than 'normal'. To think that this is over, or that we can just give up entirely on social distancing, etc. at this point would be foolish. History has proven it.

I'm happy to see that in my state, new cases and deaths are on the decline, places are opening back up, life is returning to normal. I just don't understand the view some have (not you in particular) that say we should throw caution to the wind, say this is all made up, and we should return 100% to the original, pre-COVID normal yesterday, because my constitutional rights and pseudo-patriotic views demand it, public health be damned.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

The results are absolutely "new revelations". It's a NOVEL virus. Nobody had much of a clue what it was actually going to do, including people who study this and have been through related episodes (SARS, MERS, Ebola, etc.) in the past. Nobody knew. To act as if you KNEW is completely laughable.

You may have guessed correctly. Congrats! But the actual experts have a lot more responsibility than a random message board poster. If they're wrong, people die unnecessarily. They didn't know, just like you didn't know, but they couldn't guess. Since they didn't know, they had to err to the side of caution.

If the shut down worked, then everybody would claim it wasn't necessary and was an overreaction. That's exactly how you'd know it was effective... This is exactly what you're doing.

Your ad hominem attempt to discredit me is irrelevant and doesn't deserve a response. YOU are the one second guessing the experts, YOU have the entire burden of proof.

SMH. Like I said last post, I made my thoughts on this known early and often. You might should go back and research them because it would prevent the assumptions you keep making about my thoughts. Past and present its been based on what current data presented. That is it.

I'm not sure why you keep insinuating I am standing on what I predicted or "come up" with about the results of this. I'm nobody but a guy that searches for answers to form an opinion. And, I'm basing it on what the experts are reporting. All of them. Not just my pick. University's are posting studies, doctors, epidemiologists, etc..... Fortunately, there are more people working on this besides government advisors. I'd suggest that anyone wanting to know what we faced/face spend a bit of time doing the same.

If you are simply stating your opinion of others, based on being in the healthcare field with no actual experience, how is that more credible then someone who isn't that is basing their opinion on literally untold experiences from health care workers dealing with covid 19? Know that I am not trying to discredit you. I asked you to validate why common people shouldn't be unbiased on the data they decide is credible. If you have some experience to say why we should all shut up and just listen to you, share it. If you have some that contradicts or adds to data we do have, share it please. It wasn't a question of credentials. It was a request to justify your opinion that anyone who disagrees with you is just arm chair quarterbacking.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I disagree entirely with the two choices point. Many shades of gray exist. One can go out and about, live life, but continue to be cautious, wear a mask indoors in public, etc. Still limit the total number of places one visits in a day to something less than 'normal'. To think that this is over, or that we can just give up entirely on social distancing, etc. at this point would be foolish. History has proven it.

I'm happy to see that in my state, new cases and deaths are on the decline, places are opening back up, life is returning to normal. I just don't understand the view some have (not you in particular) that say we should throw caution to the wind, say this is all made up, and we should return 100% to the original, pre-COVID normal yesterday, because my constitutional rights and pseudo-patriotic views demand it, public health be damned.

I'm lost why you read into that I was insinuating no precautions are needed to best protect me and mine. If you want to wear a mask, do so. If you want to stay home, do so. If you want to visit only out of necessity, do so. I'm doing all when deemed necessary except wear a mask. I'm utterly confused why this gets missed. We are all grown men here and should give our peers the due respect to know what's best for them. Without having to express it in every post and sentence.

As far as the history of this, there is none to say what we are doing is going to be a mistake. None. No one is saying this. I don't know where this ideology comes from. No one is saying anything you implied. I think you are getting the freedom of individuality confused with absolutism.

 

[307]

SMH. Like I said last post, I made my thoughts on this known early and often. You might should go back and research them because it would prevent the assumptions you keep making about my thoughts. Past and present its been based on what current data presented. That is it.

I'm not sure why you keep insinuating I am standing on what I predicted or "come up" with about the results of this. I'm nobody but a guy that searches for answers to form an opinion. And, I'm basing it on what the experts are reporting. All of them. Not just my pick. University's are posting studies, doctors, epidemiologists, etc..... Fortunately, there are more people working on this besides government advisors. I'd suggest that anyone wanting to know what we faced/face spend a bit of time doing the same.

If you are simply stating your opinion of others, based on being in the healthcare field with no actual experience, how is that more credible then someone who isn't that is basing their opinion on literally untold experiences from health care workers dealing with covid 19? Know that I am not trying to discredit you. I asked you to validate why common people shouldn't be unbiased on the data they decide is credible. If you have some experience to say why we should all shut up and just listen to you, share it. If you have some that contradicts or adds to data we do have, share it please. It wasn't a question of credentials. It was a request to justify your opinion that anyone who disagrees with you is just arm chair quarterbacking.

I certainly do not care enough about your opinion to dig all the way back through this thread. What you wrote above is very difficult to comprehend in any sensible way.

So... let's try this a different way.

What exactly do you think should be done differently right now. Using all current knowledge, how would you change it?

Using current knowledge to question decisions made without the benefit of such knowledge is intellectually dishonest, which is what I'm alleging you to have done in recent posts.