What is a "point"

[wapitibob]

20 WY sheep points $3000. Your chance on drawing a tag starting next year with 20 pts not good. Refunding that kind of money would devastate the department and be an eye opener for other states.

Max money expended on Sheep points thru 2021 was $1,870

 

[BBob]

In my state nonresidents can buy a tag for $300 and hunt deer every year.

What is the NR demand for deer tags in OK? I'm guessing not very high. How many of us from out west want to go to OK to hunt deer? Not I, not even on my radar. I'll bet if we overran your state and it got harder for residents to hunt it'd change in a heartbeat.

 

[wapitibob]

Gutshot, you should spend a whole lot more time reading here GoHunt.com and a whole lot less time posting on Rokslide. There's literally threads on here complaining about how easy this information is to obtain now. You're only 15-30 years too late to start researching the points game.

You'd think there would be a basic understanding of the subject before starting a thread.

 

[sndmn11]

What is the NR demand for deer tags in OK? I'm guessing not very high. How many of us from out west want to go to OK to hunt deer? Not I, not even on my radar. I'll bet if we overran your state and it got harder for residents to hunt it'd change in a heartbeat.

You could head to the wonderful state of OK and spend a few grand on some other animals.

Exotic Hunts for multiple Exotic Game Species!

We offer Exotic Hunts for several exotic deer and antelope species. We offer some of the most sought after species in the world and world class service!

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Looks like elk, aoudad, buffalo, all sorts of cool stuff. I wonder if OK will get lumped into one of those bad western states due to the high prices of the opportunities within...

Or probably $1k to hunt pigs; a really expensive varmint.

 

[cmahoney]

You could head to the wonderful state of OK and spend a few grand on some other animals.

Exotic Hunts for multiple Exotic Game Species!

We offer Exotic Hunts for several exotic deer and antelope species. We offer some of the most sought after species in the world and world class service!

www.nomercyhunting.com

Looks like elk, aoudad, buffalo, all sorts of cool stuff. I wonder if OK will get lumped into one of those bad western states due to the high prices of the opportunities within...

Or probably $1k to hunt pigs; a really expensive varmint.

That’s BS man, how is a blue collar guy like me going to ever get a chance at a stud Zebra for those prices, let alone a helo dinosaur hunt! I think we need to repeal PR funds from OK!


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[204guy]

 

[Mighty Mouse]

The goal of a point system should be to facilitate a more predictable and equitable distribution of tags than a random lottery. Both systems are equally "fair" in that everyone is playing by the same rules, but a random draw does allow for a wider, more disparate range of outcomes than a point-based system.

I prefer a true preference point system like Colorado's because it allows me to plan my hunts with some degree of confidence years in advance. The amount of points required to draw tags in Colorado is generally creeping upward, but the rate of that creep is generally predictable. The same factors that cause creep in point-based systems (i.e., increasing number of applicants and/or decreasing tag quotas) also cause continually decreasing draw odds in random systems.

I'm under no illusion that a point is any sort of guarantee (other than a guarantee of a better chance than if I had no/fewer points), but I am sympathetic to a degree to the complaints of those who have spent years building points objecting to states suddenly changing the rules (resident/non-resident allocation percentages, in particular).

 

[Gutshot007]

View attachment 395632

OK so here's what really happened. I was at a twins game and there happened to be this young lady sitting next to me from Wyoming. I told her I previously hunted elk in her state. Thought it was a blast ,but no luck. She said her family owned a 100, 000 acre ranch that I could hunt. I started asking her what she thought about "point" systems. Her eyes glazed over and she walked off. I had a breath mint in and was into the discussion(you can see from my hand gesture I was getting to the good part about bonus and guide points). I don't know what happened.

 

[Rich M]

This is the way I always looked at it:

You buy a preference point to secure your place in line. It doesn't give you a tag but it keeps you from competing with folks without the same level of commitment.

When you buy the point or get one in a draw, you have an idea regarding how many points it will take for the hunt you want.

The guys with multiple points -> say, 8, are ahead of the game but still feeling some pressure and likely have some future hunt in mind.

I'm not talking about the super limited hunts where 1 or even 10 tags are available annually with 10,000 applicants. Instead talking about attainable tags for elk, deer, antelope, or some exotics that can be drawn a couple/multiple times in a lifetime if so desired.

The changes many folks seem to want is to disregard someone else's previous commitment to applying for the draw, often for decades. So that more folks have opportunity to draw instead of just the folks who have been waiting all those years. I think that's BS. Be great if the high stakes point holders can apply their points to something.

The points game will be changing shortly - too many players, so they'll change it to something else or lose the guys who want top hunts but dont have the stomach to wait and need it now. Same way they killed Black Friday for the po folks who would sleep out for a cheap big screen with a predawn lottery at various stores for folks who werent as committed but complained anyway.

 

[Behlftball]

I think the point systems are good for animals in states where you can draw a tag in 5 years or less and can wait 20 years for a good tag if you wish. Ill use AZ elk as an example. In states like CO I think it's basically a scam for nonresidents at this point for the hard to draw species. But if people will pay it, I can't blame them too much. I think they should have a disclaimer that you would need to live another 100 years or so to make it to the top. I like the way NM does it for the hard to draw tags, but it gets hard to try to plan anything with the random draw for deer and elk

 

[Mighty Mouse]

What is the NR demand for deer tags in OK? I'm guessing not very high. How many of us from out west want to go to OK to hunt deer? Not I, not even on my radar. I'll bet if we overran your state and it got harder for residents to hunt it'd change in a heartbeat.

I'm genuinely curious, at what percentage would you consider a state to be "overrun" with nonresident hunters? 10-15% of draw tags allocated to NR's seems to be typical of western states (with Colorado being a notably more generous exception).

I don't have numbers on NR demand in Oklahoma (I don't think those statistics are available), but it's not zero. We do have some highly coveted draw hunts, and NR's are treated exactly the same as residents in those draws. Say what you will about us Okies, but you can't say we're stingy toward NR's.

 

[Behlftball]

I can second what Mighty Mouse said about OK in WI. We have tons of nonresidents that come and shoot up the deer in gun seasons and they have equal odds in the bear draw. WI has some of the biggest bear skulls and it takes 10 or more years to draw the better areas. Whitetails might be second to Iowa but nonresidents can hunt hear every year otc for $160.00

 

[sneaky]

20 WY sheep points $3000. Your chance on drawing a tag starting next year with 20 pts not good. Refunding that kind of money would devastate the department and be an eye opener for other states.

I am sick of being the nonresident step child. In my state nonresidents can buy a tag for $300 and hunt deer every year. Wyoming residents want to have their cake and eat it too.

Some will say if you don’t like it then don’t apply. I say that if you don’t like it go OUTLAW.


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How much can nonresidents buy a sheep tag in your state for? $3000 spread over 20 years is a drop in the bucket in relation to what you waste on other vices in that same time period.

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[CamoPirate]

How much can nonresidents buy a sheep tag in your state for? $3000 spread over 20 years is a drop in the bucket in relation to what you waste on other vices in that same time period.

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Why are you attacking my coffee habit like that?

 

[CorbLand]

We really need to start calling points for what they are…participation trophies.

 

[BBob]

I'm genuinely curious, at what percentage would you consider a state to be "overrun" with nonresident hunters?

Overrun is a subjective term and not one I'd define as a percentage. What I'm implying is when you reach the point that your (resident) draw rate rapidly drops and you are encountering many more NR in the field and when you file a data request and that data shows a significant rise in NR tags being sold you start to ask questions. In AZ say 26 ish years or so ago that's what happened. Our reaction at the time was to implement a NR tag limit among other things to reduce the NR pressure. NM followed soon after. Like it or not when residents draw rates start getting heavily impacted and they (residents) can't go hunting as often as they are used to the states will take action. As to you being nice I'm sure you are but if we showed up in enough numbers that you couldn't get your deer tag every year some of you will demand your state take action. I guarantee it. I've seen this go from state to state as demands have risen. I'll also say that none of my friends nor I would not be nice to you if you showed up here after you drew a tag, I'd say quite the opposite would happen. This isn't a I'm nice and you aren't thing it's a demand that exceeds the supply thing.

 

[204guy]

We really need to start calling points for what they are…participation trophies.

Depends, and that's what makes the premise of the thread humorous. You can't lump it into elk hunting in the west and points. Each state is a stand alone entity with it's own unique system. WA, OR, CA, ID, NV, AZ, MT, UT, WY, CO, NM, ND, SD, AK, MN, KY, MI, PA & Reservations all have a different system for how tags are allocated.

 

[sneaky]

Why are you attacking my coffee habit like that?

It was either that or Copenhagen lol

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