What is holding you back from competitive shooting?

[Travis Bertrand]

To me, there are a lot of crossovers from the hunting community and competitive shooting. Also, most comp shooters hunt as well but I don't see nearly as many people showing up to the range than I do in the field. My question is, who has thought about going to a comp and what is stopping or has stopped you? What would you like to see changed on the compeitition side of things to make it more appealing to the average hunter?

 

[WeiserBucks]

To be blunt, I don't like being around groups of people.

 

[wind gypsy]

#1 - I selfishly spend too many days/weekends away from wife/kids during hunting season and doing habitat work on the land as it is and still want to hunt more than I do. Shooting and prepping for matches would borrow from that hunting time capital to shoot matches and hunting > shooting for me.

I'm able to do an occasional local 1 day club level match but full weekend matches typically aren't local and involve a considerable time commitment.

Maybe when my daughters are older they'll have an interest and I could justify more shooting time with them along but my wife has zero interest.

In a somewhat related thought - I worked the public rifle sight in days at my range last weekend and the level of competency/knowledge by many casual hunters is downright shameful. We paste 4" dots to shoot at 100 yards and there are people who get close to hitting the dot with 2 shots and walk away saying "close enough".

 

[Corvus Corax]

Safe places to practice and a consistent affordable supply of ammunition or components are big ones for me. I also have a perception, and I might be wrong that a lot of these scenarios are way outside of my skill level. I would just be turning hard earned money into noise. I am very interested in a NRL Hunter match, but I may seek out some instruction first. Or swallow my pride and be open to learning the hard way.

 

[david2duck]

Like mentioned above, time. Most people only have X amount of time and they use that for hunting. The majority of the NRL Hunter matches aren’t close. To take 1-3 days off work to travel and then shoot over the weekend doesn’t fit in my or my buddies schedules very often. I usually try to do two different one week long hunts each year, a decent amount of smaller 2-4 day hunts/fishing trips. My wife is a pretty awesome lady but missing more time away from the family to go shoot a match in Idaho or Washington might not go over super awesome.

 

[id_jon]

Like mentioned above, time. Most people only have X amount of time and they use that for hunting. The majority of the NRL Hunter matches aren’t close. To take 1-3 days off work to travel and then shoot over the weekend doesn’t fit in my or my buddies schedules very often. I usually try to do two different one week long hunts each year, a decent amount of smaller 2-4 day hunts/fishing trips. My wife is a pretty awesome lady but missing more time away from the family to go shoot a match in Idaho or Washington might not go over super awesome.

Exactly the case for me. I had big plans to do 3-4 NRL Hunters this last year, until I fully realized the time commitment, not to mention the fuel cost. The Hunter style matches are basically the only ones that really interest me, if there were 1 day local(within 2hr drive) matches in that style, I'd probably be more willing to make a couple.

 

[dieselchessy]

Can’t hardly buy primers these days. The local ranges to me only have 300 yard max and don’t like you to shoot from other than the bench.
While I’ve used my 10+Lb comp rifles for hunting, I don’t consider them a hunting rifle.
I’ve only shot PRS, so maybe there is other more suitable formats, but that rate of fire isn’t conducive to a hunting profile barrel.
Time. I just don’t have enough free time.


I just looked at the Hunter match this year for Benge WA. 100 to 1200 yard targets, 70 some odd round minimum.
I know 4 hunters including myself that would even know where to start on a 1000+ yard target. And I would fully expect the competitive guys to have 10+ lb 6.5 rifles with Hubble telescopes, and $1k worth of accoutrements to tote around.
I’m my circles that’s great fun, but not something 98% of hunters would relate to.

Edited after seeing the rules for NRL hunter look to have a class that is pretty well 6.5mm lower limit and 12# upper weight limit.

 

[rayporter]

i cant explain it, either.

i set my stepson up with a competitive rifle and he is very good at benchrest but i cant drag him to a match. i think it is the fear of failure in front of other shooters. you cant stay on top all the time and those at the top will fall and you can have your day.

components are tough to get but if you shoot at home you may as well shoot at a shoot with like minded people and learn. heck just hanging around and not shooting will further your knowledge a lot, even though a match can be like watching paint dry if your not involved. but talking to the shooters will give you a lot of info and insight into their mindset.

my gunsmith has a saying- you wont be last no matter how bad you shoot. all you have to do is put all your shots on paper and not crossfire and someone will. a little practice and care and most new shooters will be mid pack because of others having rifle or scope trouble and crossfirIng.

 

[wind gypsy]

I just looked at the Hunter match this year for Benge WA. 100 to 1200 yard targets, 70 some odd round minimum.
I know 4 hunters including myself that would even know where to start on a 1000+ yard target. And I would fully expect the competitive guys to have 10+ lb 6.5 rifles with Hubble telescopes, and $1k worth of accoutrements to tote around.
I’m my circles that’s great fun, but not something 98% of hunters would relate to.

Edited after seeing the rules for NRL hunter look to have a class that is pretty well 6.5mm lower limit and 12# upper weight limit.

I haven't looked into it a ton but hopefully if they entered in the "skills division" they could get some help on that stuff? I'd think as long as folks have a good velocity (Should have it from power factor verifying in NRL Hunter?) with a known bullet and a scope that tracks, experienced shooters could help line em out with dope and wind in skills division?

 

[Dented]

A lack of ranges past 100 yards, and this annoying "work" thing that seems to continually interrupt my life. What time I can spend, particularly at longer distances I use only my hunting rifle and the loads that i hunt with.

 

[Formidilosus]

To me, there are a lot of crossovers from the hunting community and competitive shooting. Also, most comp shooters hunt as well but I don't see nearly as many people showing up to the range than I do in the field. My question is, who has thought about going to a comp and what is stopping or has stopped you? What would you like to see changed on the compeitition side of things to make it more appealing to the average hunter?

This is for me, and what I see and hear why people won’t shoot matches. I don’t shoot many rifle matches anymore, 1-3 a year, but 8-10 USPSA pistol matches though that’s not what you are talking about. There is some crossover from PRS/NRL style matches to hunting, but not nearly enough and truthfully not much from the matches to normal hunting.
For me and those I hunt with, the matches are extremely contrived, have no real time component, and especially PRS matches are more akin to barricaded and tripod benchrest than a field match. The rifles are ridiculous and are not field rifles. Only about half the skills translate, recoil control and rifle weight/style/setup have almost zero field applicability. There’s no physicality at all involved- no crawling, climbing, shooting from uncomfortable and weird positions, etc. After the first shooter on a stage, it’s not even really calling the wind for most- you just got off of what the person in front of you did. They’re expensive- not just the match fees which have gotten way out of hand, but travel, lodging, etc. They take too long to get to, and two day matches instead of one day.

Contrast that with USPSA matches. They’re everywhere, cost $15-20 at max. Take half a day, can be very competitive with the pistols I actually use and carry, the scoring is time and points on target (not a be tripod BR match) so accuracy and time have real weight, and the divisions generally match real carry/work guns. Physicality (movement) under time with odd shooting positions is involved, etc, etc. All of that without even bringing up what is probably the #1 factor of matches sucking.

Rifle/precision/sniper matches used to be much, much more fun and “realistic” before PRS stood up. There was variation in how matches were run, the rifles were almost all legit field rifles with “heavy” rifles being 14-16lbs, average weight was 11-12lbs, cartridges were real- 6mm, 6.5, and even 308 was common which meant skill in recoil control and spotting impacts was important. People and rifles had to move and shoot from awkward and unusual positions, tripods and 10 shooting pillows were not common/were not used. People and gear got dirty, muddy, sandy, covered in crud. Because of the way stages were setup, you couldn’t really borrow your buddy’s wind calls and holds, even if you could, it wouldn’t help that much due to the actual shooting skill required- you weren’t locked into a tripod or over a Gamechanger bag with a 42lb 6BRA. They didn’t have “sponsored shooters” (the jerseys). That alone can not be overlooked. Once everything became “sponsored” the people and the atmosphere at matches changed dramatically.


In short, most matches aren’t that applicable for me and those I hunt and shoot with any longer to put up with the time/money/stupidity to shoot them. To make a match that is actually a field match-

1). Weight. Rifles that are realistic field guns. “Light” is not 12 pounds. Have a sub 7lb category all up, a standard weight catogory of 9lbs, and an open division.

2). Time. Time plus scoring, or some version that makes time a major factor for score. You want to spend a minute and a half setting up a tripod, no problem, but others are half way through the targets by your first shot.

3). Positions. The majority of shots should not be prone, tripod, or barricade with a bag.

4). Movement. Not so much that most can’t complete it, but enough that to win you have to get into and out of positions quickly, break shots with no wasted time, spot and correct shots immediately, and and handle the rifle competently.

5). Everything used for every stage must be carried and stored not in hand at the start buzzer. You must carry and have it on you for the entire match.

6). Get rid of the sponsored shooter nonsense. That is literally the number one thing that could change matches back into the fun they used to be. It’s also the number one reason I hear from people about why they won’t try it- they’ll be outclassed and embarrassed (a poster in this thread stated similar).



No matter how competitive something is, it’s hard to feel outclassed when dudes are dressed in normal clothes racing standard 4-wheelers around a field; compared to walking up to a Nascar race where everyone is sponsored and decked out.

 

[Formidilosus]

Because of how my lost above reads, I want to be clear- competing is the number one thing hunters and shooters could do to improve their skill. The issue isn’t competition- it’s the matches that are available.

 

[Lawnboi]

To be blunt, I don't like being around groups of people.

Ha! I nearly lose my shit when I have to walk in Walmart. I can handle a shooting match though.

 

[sndmn11]

Too expensive! That's why we compete with 3d archery.

I also don't think that I could "compete" with 15lb rifles that aren't setup for hunting with my 6.5lb rifle.

I would shoot 22LR matches.

 

[Lawnboi]

Availability for me. There’s not many around me. I can’t sacrifice weekends all summer then expect it come fall. Too much time away from family.

I like shooting PRS. I know it’s not hunting. I’m not happy how it’s a trick gun game now either, but it’s still fun for me, and gets me shooting under pressure. I don’t like how I have to build a rifle that’s really only good at PRS to be competitive.

I’m going to try to shoot some other matches this coming year. Hopefully matches will continue in WI.

I do think it’s the best practice a guy can get. Stressed shots be it time, unsteadiness, or difficulty present situations where some of the shot process does carry over. Even with my 20lb 6.5 creedmoor that’s really only good at doing one thing.

Competition has also taught me a lot about wind, reloading, rifle maintenance and keeping them running, reloading consistency. But best of all it’s teaching me to have a good trigger pull under pressure.

Most guys don’t want to show up because of the barrier to entry. It’s hard, they don’t think they are ready. I went to my first match and hit 13 targets…. People need to set their ego aside and go learn to shoot. Atleast that’s what I see.

Prize tables kind of chap my ass too. Shooters that have everything will grab something so they can sell it online while the guy that would give his left nut for something nice get a hat and a sticker.

 

[Formidilosus]

Why get involve when I still need to work on my shooting accuracy and some other little things that matter in shooting.

Because you will progress significantly faster in those things if you compete.

I also don't think that I could "compete" with 15lb rifles that aren't setup for hunting with my 6.5lb rifle.

I would shoot 22LR matches.

15lb rifles? If that were the case, you could compete with your hunting rifle. Most legit comp rifles for PRS are over 25lbs.

 

[isocyanate]

I shot prs style matches from 2014-2018. It has changed a lot even since I quit, but what got me was the time and money expenditure overall. I can swallow a weekend here and there and a couple hundred rounds a match, but to show up and be competitive, you have to shoot on your own and really know your dope in all conditions. That approaches several thousand rounds a year minimum. New barrel every other year minimum. Couple weekends a month shooting long range, which is a 3-hour round trip for me.

And at the end, I can’t just show up to a match, chill, and have fun at mid pack. I’m there to win, and found the cost of winning too high. Call it a character flaw.

Smacking steel with friends is fun though.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

Too expensive! That's why we compete with 3d archery.

I also don't think that I could "compete" with 15lb rifles that aren't setup for hunting with my 6.5lb rifle.

I would shoot 22LR matches.

Find some NRL 22 matches in your area. They are a ton of fun and really great practice for position building and positional shooting.

I compete a little bit locally, but only one day or half day matches. Time is at a premium these days.

When I first started I noticed there were the "gate keepers" and the "gate openers" at each match.

The gate keepers were the guys that were only in it to win it and were annoyed by the beginners. I was squadded with a group of them once and they would all shout derisively "Muzzle Brake, dude doesn't even have a suppressor" pretty much any time I went to the line. They all had their RRS gear, super expensive rifles, kestrels, and all shot boutique calibers. I felt very unwelcomed by them.

The next time, I was with some really cool guys (one was either an employee or owner of Mile High Shooting) that lent me different bags, gave me tips, and treated me like a peer, despite my budget setup.

Find the gate openers at your local events and you will learn a ton. I did.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

To be blunt, I don't like being around groups of people.

i cant explain it, either.

i set my stepson up with a competitive rifle and he is very good at benchrest but i cant drag him to a match. i think it is the fear of failure in front of other shooters. you cant stay on top all the time and those at the top will fall and you can have your day.

components are tough to get but if you shoot at home you may as well shoot at a shoot with like minded people and learn. heck just hanging around and not shooting will further your knowledge a lot, even though a match can be like watching paint dry if your not involved. but talking to the shooters will give you a lot of info and insight into their mindset.

my gunsmith has a saying- you wont be last no matter how bad you shoot. all you have to do is put all your shots on paper and not crossfire and someone will. a little practice and care and most new shooters will be mid pack because of others having rifle or scope trouble and crossfirIng.

WeiserBucks...hilarious, love it, same here. But it points out a big one...lots of people have ZERO desire or interest to compete against other people for any reason. Turns them off more than on.

The time constraints in this world, especially with families, everyone having to work all the time is a another big one, and then so is financial aspect, the cabal has leaned on the common man pretty hard the past few years, someone is getting richer but it ain't us.

Another big reason, if you're focus is hunting primarily...competition against other people is completely unnecessary.

 

[sndmn11]

15lb rifles? If that were the case, you could compete with your hunting rifle. Most legit comp rifles for PRS are over 25lbs.

Well, there ya go!