What is the point…

[Jakerex]

What is the point of a normal pac boot, without any additional insulation in the foot bottom or rubber bottom layers, with a 200 or 400g thinsulate liner? Such as the Kenetrek Grizzly’s?

There are nineteen million better hiking, mountain, hunting, boots out there that can be had with 200 or 400g thinsulate.

What, if any, advantage does a Pac boot have over a typical mountain boot with the same grams of thinsulate?

I see an advantage of the pacs with felt and additional layers of thinsulate to make an extremely warm boot for stand hunting, but these rubber bottom boots with mediocre thinsulate make me wonder why??


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[Bro-sada]

Pac boots to me are good for shoveling the driveway...but that is about it. They are heavier, don't have the ankle support, less traction, etc. etc.

I am in full agreement with your assessment.

 

[Deadfall]

I don't know anything about the kenetreks. I run schnees hunter II 13" and extreme 13". my feet sweat no matter what I wear. my pacs dry out quicker then a regular insulated boot. With the air bob sole I have better traction then other winter boots. In the winter months those air bob soles are hard to beat for traction. The boot allows more flex in the foot, so when walking my feet stay warm and the sweat is soaked up by the removeable liner. Have found that a good sock system is a necessity. Then at night I pull the liner, it dries and I'm ready for next day. These are definitely not mountaineering boots. I buy mine a size bigger then normal boot. If they are too tight your feet will freeze. Most of my use is in mountains staying in a tent. For a weekend excursion. probably not much benefit to a pac boot

Pac boots without the air bob sole are useless. The air bob's for whatever reason seem to almost form suction cups to ice. Unless you happen to stomp out a fire and melt them...haha...

 

[TSAMP]

Interesting question, I look forward to further responses. I find myself comparing pac boots to regular rubber knee high boots here in the flatland of Iowa and have been on the fence of purchasing a pair myself. I get tired of the ankle slippage in my current rubber boots.

 

[Deadfall]

Also with the schnees, when they wear out you send them in and get repaired for fraction of new boot cost. Usually it's the rubber that cracks. Every 5 or 6 years

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

Removable liners are a really good feature for long hunts in cold/snowy conditions. Especially if tent camping.

 

[TSAMP]

My "rubber" boots have a liner actually. They are called Ultra light boots by Leon Co. I think they are UK based maybe but the boots actually a EVA material not rubber, so they weigh maybe 1lb each I am on my second pair in 6 months though as they arent real durable. The failure was kind of on me as i slipped climbing a treestand and one of the steps tore a hole in the boot. At around $65 a pair, i am not too upset if they only last a year.

They just dont have a great calf opening so my ankle slips on occasion.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I havent found a pair of rubber boots that I dont absolutely despise.

 

[Jakerex]

I don't know anything about the kenetreks. I run schnees hunter II 13" and extreme 13". my feet sweat no matter what I wear. my pacs dry out quicker then a regular insulated boot. With the air bob sole I have better traction then other winter boots. In the winter months those air bob soles are hard to beat for traction. The boot allows more flex in the foot, so when walking my feet stay warm and the sweat is soaked up by the removeable liner. Have found that a good sock system is a necessity. Then at night I pull the liner, it dries and I'm ready for next day. These are definitely not mountaineering boots. I buy mine a size bigger then normal boot. If they are too tight your feet will freeze. Most of my use is in mountains staying in a tent. For a weekend excursion. probably not much benefit to a pac boot

Pac boots without the air bob sole are useless. The air bob's for whatever reason seem to almost form suction cups to ice. Unless you happen to stomp out a fire and melt them...haha...

The Schnees Hunter II would fall into the category that I’m speaking of…..a rubber bottom boot with a 400g liner. Same as the Kenetrek Grizzly I spoke of. So you say the benefit you like is the air bob soles, and the ability to remove the liner to dry them out faster. Thanks

The extreme boots would be good for treestand hunting where you don’t have a far walk.


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[BRTreedogs]

You must hunt from home or a cabin with electricity every night for a boot dryer?

Id say having multiple pairs of liners and easy drying would be the main draw.

Having a tall boot for deep snow.

Thinsulate vs Felt. The benefit of being lighter then the other types of lines while still having removal liners.

Thinsulate probably dries faster.

I'm not on the pack boot train because I need more ankle support and I have a propane boot dryer but I could see myself packing in a 2nd pair of liners on a long cold hunt if I was going to stay away from my vehicle.
But I wouldn't by thinsulate I don't think.

 

[Deadfall]

The Schnees Hunter II would fall into the category that I’m speaking of…..a rubber bottom boot with a 400g liner. Same as the Kenetrek Grizzly I spoke of. So you say the benefit you like is the air bob soles, and the ability to remove the liner to dry them out faster. Thanks

The extreme boots would be good for treestand hunting where you don’t have a far walk.


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Yappers.

 

[Rokwiia]

Removable liners are a really good feature for long hunts in cold/snowy conditions. Especially if tent camping.

I use Baffin Snow Monster pac-style boots and can hike all day in them. I bring an extra pair of liners. At night, I remove the liners worn that day and dry the interior of the boots. The nest morning, I put in the extra liners. That way, you start the next day with dry, warm boots.

I find the Snow Monsters to be supportive and have excellent grip on the bottom.

https://www.baffin.com/products/epicm010

 

[Kevin Dill]

I wore pac boots for caribou and moose hunting for many years before I finally had enough foot suffering. Here's what I experienced:

Leather upper wets out after enough days of tundra wear and exposure to moisture. This despite greasing, waxing or any treatment.

Rubber bottom is a moisture trap. Most pac boot bottoms have some type of fabric lining adhered to the inside. Mine got wet and degraded badly. (Schnee's)

No pac boots I ever owned were waterproof past the ankles. I did everything possible to make them so but they always leaked during shallow creek crossings.

Changing liners helps but none of mine ever dried completely overnight unless heat was used. Once the leather and interior lower gets damp, your liner is caught in the moisture crossfire when your feet perspire.

Every hunting/walking pac boot I ever owned developed a collapse-wrinkle at the Achilles tendon area. The leather would wrinkle over time and bulge against my Achilles resulting in intense pain after several days of hunting.

The coldest, miserable feet I ever had were while wearing pac boots and Thinsulate liners on extended hunts. Aching feet will ruin a hunt and can be a precursor (symptom) of frostbite.

I've had far better foot happiness wearing 1000G rubber boots. They don't leak. No wet leather. Easy creek crossings. Good grip. Change socks midday and my boots stay dry. Pacs are great for dry hunts or hunts where you can get things dried out daily. It ends right there for me.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

I wore pac boots for caribou and moose hunting for many years before I finally had enough foot suffering. Here's what I experienced:

Leather upper wets out after enough days of tundra wear and exposure to moisture. This despite greasing, waxing or any treatment.

Rubber bottom is a moisture trap. Most pac boot bottoms have some type of fabric lining adhered to the inside. Mine got wet and degraded badly. (Schnee's)

No pac boots I ever owned were waterproof past the ankles. I did everything possible to make them so but they always leaked during shallow creek crossings.

Changing liners helps but none of mine ever dried completely overnight unless heat was used. Once the leather and interior lower gets damp, your liner is caught in the moisture crossfire when your feet perspire.

Every hunting/walking pac boot I ever owned developed a collapse-wrinkle at the Achilles tendon area. The leather would wrinkle over time and bulge against my Achilles resulting in intense pain after several days of hunting.

The coldest, miserable feet I ever had were while wearing pac boots and Thinsulate liners on extended hunts. Aching feet will ruin a hunt and can be a precursor (symptom) of frostbite.

I've had far better foot happiness wearing 1000G rubber boots. They don't leak. No wet leather. Easy creek crossings. Good grip. Change socks midday and my boots stay dry. Pacs are great for dry hunts or hunts where you can get things dried out daily. It ends right there for me.

Now that is interesting information. Were you mostly using these in snow @Kevin Dill?

 

[Kevin Dill]

Now that is interesting information. Were you mostly using these in snow @Kevin Dill?

They saw some snow. Typically worn in temps from 20 - 60F depending on weather of course. Vegetation sometimes wet. Some days rainy. Shallow wet ditches and minor creeks to cross with water no more than 8" deep. Every day saw some type of exposure to moisture, which is the norm in Alaska, YK, NWT.

After 3-4 days of wear, I could always feel a cold, damp and clammy interior....this despite removing the liner every evening. Once those pacs got damp deep inside, and the leather got soaked enough times, it was all but impossible to get them completely dried out.

 

[Blandry]

I bought some Pac's this year and sent them right back to kentrek.. No way I'm wearing those things in the backcountry with so many better options now.

 

[Blandry]

I don't know anything about the kenetreks. I run schnees hunter II 13" and extreme 13". my feet sweat no matter what I wear. my pacs dry out quicker then a regular insulated boot. With the air bob sole I have better traction then other winter boots. In the winter months those air bob soles are hard to beat for traction. The boot allows more flex in the foot, so when walking my feet stay warm and the sweat is soaked up by the removeable liner. Have found that a good sock system is a necessity. Then at night I pull the liner, it dries and I'm ready for next day. These are definitely not mountaineering boots. I buy mine a size bigger then normal boot. If they are too tight your feet will freeze. Most of my use is in mountains staying in a tent. For a weekend excursion. probably not much benefit to a pac boot

Pac boots without the air bob sole are useless. The air bob's for whatever reason seem to almost form suction cups to ice. Unless you happen to stomp out a fire and melt them...haha...

this makes sense but I still wouldn't wear those things for anything other than outdoor chores in mud/snow and even then there are better options now. I think pac boots are something that worked for years but are now just obsolete.

 

[Shraggs]

I wore pac boots for caribou and moose hunting for many years before I finally had enough foot suffering. Here's what I experienced:

Leather upper wets out after enough days of tundra wear and exposure to moisture. This despite greasing, waxing or any treatment.

Rubber bottom is a moisture trap. Most pac boot bottoms have some type of fabric lining adhered to the inside. Mine got wet and degraded badly. (Schnee's)

No pac boots I ever owned were waterproof past the ankles. I did everything possible to make them so but they always leaked during shallow creek crossings.

Changing liners helps but none of mine ever dried completely overnight unless heat was used. Once the leather and interior lower gets damp, your liner is caught in the moisture crossfire when your feet perspire.

Every hunting/walking pac boot I ever owned developed a collapse-wrinkle at the Achilles tendon area. The leather would wrinkle over time and bulge against my Achilles resulting in intense pain after several days of hunting.

The coldest, miserable feet I ever had were while wearing pac boots and Thinsulate liners on extended hunts. Aching feet will ruin a hunt and can be a precursor (symptom) of frostbite.

I've had far better foot happiness wearing 1000G rubber boots. They don't leak. No wet leather. Easy creek crossings. Good grip. Change socks midday and my boots stay dry. Pacs are great for dry hunts or hunts where you can get things dried out daily. It ends right there for me.

I use a lot of pack boots and I feel this is very accurate in active use for normal to sweaty feet.

PAC boots offer more air trapping in distance from foot to outside cold. Yet they aren’t a vapor barrier either. Like a down jacket lofts, felt liners are trapping more of your foots heat.

I’ve tested so many boots including typical thinsulate boots on one foot and packs on another. One example is an old cabelas winter hiking boot with 1400 gram thinsulate called the artic Bruin. I put a pack boot made by lacrosse, an advertised mountain pack called the mountain extreme pft. The liner isn’t felt it’s a mixture of products but according to lacrosse way back then it’s r value was equalivant to 800 thinsulate. They had leather top rubber bottom no extra in the rubber bottom. Sitting static as in deer stand in 30 degrees the pack was significantly warmer. Noticeable in minutes. Walk a short distance casually and both are warm, walk continuously in 60 minutes my pack boot foot is chilled. For me it’s pretty simple, there is no where for my sweat to go and everything is damp where the hiking boot which was leather and some cordura breathed. This December for the first time I took those pacs during shoulder season, feet were cold in 30 minutes and had to use heat things to get thru the day. As long as I’m moving I’ll take typical hunting boot even lightly insulated.

I do love pacs however, but for low activity stand hunting or winter fishing. There is no way my feet could sit motionless in frigid temps in a leather hiking boot even heavily insulated. I’ve learned, for me, to walk the mile into my stand slowly with cotton socks, then change into my wool to limit the liners getting wet. In heavily double insulated pacs can easily stay all day in frigid temps.

Long explanation that they technically can have greater r value regardless of advertised insulation level.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Unless they went underground, White's Boots discontinued their pac boot line a few years ago. Hoffman, Schnee's and Kenetrek appear to be the go-to folks for better pacs. I have no clue about actual sales or popularity of their pacs.