What is wilderness?

[idahohikker]

Wilderness is an interesting term. Do you define wilderness as a wild and remote place or areas with a federal wilderness designation?

To me, the federal designation is arbitrary. Many of the places that were originally designated were well known and a bunch of rock where the ground was not used as much for logging and grazing. Since the original Wilderness Act it's been hit or miss as far as which wild places get designated. Some of the most remote places in Western states don't have the designation for whatever reason. It does irk me that so many nonresidents assume wilderness means a place with great game and few people. It makes helping them more difficult but I myself imagined and was drawn to the idea of monster bulls that had never seen a human in areas I targeted.

Hunting in wilderness areas can be really good. See Wyoming for example. It can also be pretty poor, see the Bob Marshall and Frank Church, at least in certain places. Today, in an evolving hunting landscape where nonresidents are flocking to Western states and point creep is jumping, designated wilderness areas are seeing signficant increases in pressure. A unit I've hunted has seen a 2-3 fold increase in five years. But other wilderness areas are not as trendy.

The most wild places today, though, might be 5-10 miles away from a road or trail in a national forest. That might not be the romantic picture of a wilderness hunt where it's not deep backcountry that you have to fly into or ride a day to get to, but the place may be less affected by human traffic. There is no one-size-fits-all answer and every wilderness area and national forest is different. A smart approach is to find remote places that aren't designated and aren't hot spots on anyone's radar. That takes some effort and analysis to find.

But, my point is that the federal designation of wilderness ultimately means little as far as animal quality and human presence and it's becoming more and more a detriment to good hunting (except in Wyoming with their outfitter rule).

 

[Poser]

Usually just think about it as the stretches of land that I have to ride my bike around.

 

[Newtosavage]

Usually just think about it as the stretches of land that I have to ride my bike around.

You can ride bikes in wilderness areas?

 

[idahohikker]

You can ride bikes in wilderness areas?

I think he means you have to watch out for the wilderness areas and not bike in them.

 

[chindits]

To me, Fossil Ridge is not wilderness. That’s close to home and I’m very unimpressed.

 

[Beendare]

From Websters;

Wilderness- wild-er-ness; used as a noun;

a block of land that is a magnet for Non Resident hunters

...

 

[idahohikker]

From Websters;

Wilderness- wild-er-ness; used as a noun;

a block of land that is a magnet for Non Resident hunters

...

So simple and so true. The designation is just a tempting shortcut for trying to find a place that's remote.

One wilderness area became tent city at grandfathered in air strips and was so bad that Fish and Game specifically limited nonresidents because they were such a large chunk of the users.

 

[elkduds]

To me, Fossil Ridge is not wilderness. That’s close to home and I’m very unimpressed.

One of the core principles in establishing the Wilderness Act was to encompass enough area that travelers would spend several days traversing them, by foot or horse. In effect, leaving technology far enough away in distance and time for a 'wilderness experience.'

Along the way the political reality became to negotiate on inclusions/exclusions in proposed wilderness; peak by peak, drainage by drainage;, even to punt with Wilderness Study Area designations. Generally, older Wilderness Areas are much larger: Frank Church, Flattops, West Elk. More recently designated areas were negotiated more contentiously, and shrank in the process: Fossil Ridge, Buffalo Peaks. Both of these can be traversed in a day hike, neither has many spots from which all you can see or hear around you is still the same Wilderness. The logic became that a slice is better than no cake at all.

I prefer a week's worth of Wilderness.

 

[idahohikker]

One of the core principles in establishing the Wilderness Act was to encompass enough area that travelers would spend several days traversing them, by foot or horse. In effect, leaving technology far enough away in distance and time for a 'wilderness experience.'

Along the way the political reality became to negotiate on inclusions/exclusions in proposed wilderness; peak by peak, drainage by drainage;, even to punt with Wilderness Study Area designations. Generally, older Wilderness Areas are much larger: Frank Church, Flattops, West Elk. More recently designated areas were negotiated more contentiously, and shrank in the process: Fossil Ridge, Buffalo Peaks. Both of these can be traversed in a day hike, neither has many spots from which all you can see or hear around you is still the same Wilderness. The logic became that a slice is better than no cake at all.

I prefer a week's worth of Wilderness.

There's some new wilderness areas that are pretty large. The size all depends on the political wrangling as you state.

Wilderness areas make for great backpacking, no doubt. Hunting is another story. Great in Wyoming, not top areas in Idaho, Montana, or Utah by any means.

Game population success in a given area is largely driven by habitat which may be better or worse in the wilderness.

I've had multiple game and forest officials tell me it's much harder to effectively manage wilderness areas which ties their hands to some extent on what they can do to help animals. The wilderness red tape and vastness in some places can be really burdensome.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Wilderness to me is a place where people can't dump a couch or refrigerator from the back of their truck. They gotta hike it in.

 

[bowtech3dhunter]

You can ride bikes in wilderness areas?

Part of “wilderness”designation is that you can’t use anything motorized. So technically if you pedal a bike and it doesn’t have a motor then yes you can use it.


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[idahohikker]

Part of “wilderness”designation is that you can’t use anything motorized. So technically if you pedal a bike and it doesn’t have a motor then yes you can use it.


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This is not the case--no bikes under federal law.

 

[realunlucky]

Part of “wilderness”designation is that you can’t use anything motorized. So technically if you pedal a bike and it doesn’t have a motor then yes you can use it.


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Nope bikes are a no go

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[Backyard]

Nope bikes are a no go

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Nothing with wheels, you can't even use portage canoe wheels/dollies in the BWCAW in far northern MN
But... Our elected favorites are trying to change that and make all wilderness areas "wheelchair accessible". Gotta love 'em.

 

[bowtech3dhunter]

Well, we learn something new everyday. You guys are right, thanks for the info.


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[strand]

When I use the term Wilderness I'm referring to federally designated Wilderness, capital W. When I use the term it's not mean to infer a game rich utopia void of hunters. It's the same as if I use BLM, national forest, BMA, state trust, etc. I use the term in conversation to describe land designation and that's it. From what I've seen a few of the Wilderness areas now were dirtbike and atv hotspots 20 years ago. There are trails and random ohv and snowmobile parts laying around in certain areas. I do like to hunt them even if they do tend to hold less game because it usually means you won't have an atv come bombing down a trail that you just spent 2 hours hiking to get to a glassing point. Usually....

 

[elkyinzer]

I agree on the designations being arbitrary in a sense. Absence of human civilization is wilderness. I think there needs to exist areas like the Frank, but that really encompasses a separate discussion because that is a scope far beyond a minimum wilderness threshold, if you will. I can leave my office in downtown State College, PA right now, and within 30 minutes be in areas I consider wilderness, and to me that is just as important.

What concerns me with respect to the designations is maintaining truly wild areas on public lands, regardless of what we do or don't call it. I've see a lot of forms of outdoor recreation that exist in what I call curated wild. The National Park setting if you will. I see a constant long term trend of turning nature into an amusement park.

The general public seems to prefer zoo animals in those settings. So-called hikers prefer groomed trails where one can recreate comfortably, see other humans, and most importantly, take selfies. I see a steady conversion of wild habitat into adventure themed amusement parks via circuits of biker trails. The tree hugger resistance to habitat management because of an incorrect perception of what is truly wild and natural. It goes on and on. These are the threats I see to all scales of wilderness.

I see these all as larger threats than worrying about how many non-resident invade your hunting areas. When I invade the West to hunt our federal land I've learned a few ways to avoid the crowds. While I feel for the perceived nonres invasion I am going to keep coming out there for many decades, and hopefully I can continue to stay a step ahead of the masses.

 

[idahohikker]

I agree on the designations being arbitrary in a sense. Absence of human civilization is wilderness. I think there needs to exist areas like the Frank, but that really encompasses a separate discussion because that is a scope far beyond a minimum wilderness threshold, if you will. I can leave my office in downtown State College, PA right now, and within 30 minutes be in areas I consider wilderness, and to me that is just as important.

What concerns me with respect to the designations is maintaining truly wild areas on public lands, regardless of what we do or don't call it. I've see a lot of forms of outdoor recreation that exist in what I call curated wild. The National Park setting if you will. I see a constant long term trend of turning nature into an amusement park.

The general public seems to prefer zoo animals in those settings. So-called hikers prefer groomed trails where one can recreate comfortably, see other humans, and most importantly, take selfies. I see a steady conversion of wild habitat into adventure themed amusement parks via circuits of biker trails. The tree hugger resistance to habitat management because of an incorrect perception of what is truly wild and natural. It goes on and on. These are the threats I see to all scales of wilderness.

I see these all as larger threats than worrying about how many non-resident invade your hunting areas. When I invade the West to hunt our federal land I've learned a few ways to avoid the crowds. While I feel for the perceived nonres invasion I am going to keep coming out there for many decades, and hopefully I can continue to stay a step ahead of the masses.

Great thoughts. Yes, the invasion is unfortunate as a lifelong Idahoan but I think it's important to have truly wild places and hopefully information like this is helpful to nonresidents because some wilderness areas aren't as remote and wild as the nearby national forest that doesn't have the designation.

 

[Newtosavage]

True "wilderness" in the lower 48 is nearly non-existent. Most lower 48 "wilderness areas" are landscapes that have been heavily altered from their original pre-settlement condition. Thankfully we still have true wilderness in places like AK. To me, in the lower 48, wilderness is as much a state of mind as an actual thing. I know of some areas that are not within designated wilderness areas that feel more "wild" and remote than places within designated wilderness.

Wilderness designation is not perfect, but at least it's a start. I think God we live in a country where we can afford to protect some areas with this designation, as flawed as it may be at times.

 

[JWP58]

From Websters;

Wilderness- wild-er-ness; used as a noun;

a block of land that is a magnet for Non Resident hunters

...

Subsection:
A. Except in Wyoming



(Is it b.s.? Yes. Is it nice to utilize? Absolutely)