What to ask when calling bush pilots

[HobbyShooter]

I've been planning an Alaska hunt off and on for a few years now. Done a ton of research (I think) on gear, techniques, bush services, etc. and decided it was time to pull the trigger this last fall and book a hunt with 40 mile air. Well, you can guess how that happened. I tried for 45 minutes to get through on the morning that they started taking calls and was rewarded with a spot on the "mile long" wait list. I've decided to try other services and have read in multiple threads on the subject that it's best to make a list of potentials and start calling until I find one that fits my needs.

Maybe an odd question, but what should I be asking when I call? What units do the fly to, success rates, safety record, and availability for 2020 all come to mind. Am I missing something? I basically made a list of every service that someone had a positive experience with in the last 2 years of threads on this forum. I'm ready to get something on the calendar!

Thanks in advance for any help you can give this newbie!

 

[JDeck]

I'd have them clarify if their success rate is determined by having an opportunity or an actual harvest and if it is measured on a per camp or per hunter.

 

[bmrfish]

Getting tough for new groups to get on the schedule with the high liner transporters. We finally nailed one down but it’s not until 2021. Others have long waiting lists or are booked out further. Moose are in demand I guess.

The main things I’d want to know is what they have in the way of options. One camp lake hunt? Float trip? Ridge top? Also what kind of country they are hunting. That way you can match up to what you are looking for.
I would also want to know how many parties they are taking, how close together they are putting them, whether they hunt the same spots more than once a year, and how many other outfits are using the same area.
Always, always get some references and give them a call. Ask not just about their hunt but what they know about other parties.



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[Will_m]

How many planes they have crashed

 

[VernAK]

Start with the list you built from this site and ask:
How many aircraft of what variety?
Is there a mechanic on staff?
How many years in business?
What type of area is available?......lake, ridge, river etc

Newer outfits usually won't have as many premium locations or may dump you near another's camps.

Success rate doesn't always reflect the air carrier's ability although it may indicate moose populations in their area. Bow hunters will have lower success rates. Some hunters turn down legal bulls as they seek that 70" B&C bull.

The demand for QUALITY fly-in moose and caribou hunts far exceeds the supply.

 

[beachbunny]

i flew my commercial service for over 20 years. first thing i would ask is how long you been doing it and any wrecks? (safety record)
hunter success won't help if you do not arrive and look at the plane when you get there

 

[VernAK]

How many planes they have crashed

^^^^^^SAFETY RECORD^^^^^^^

 

[Kevin Dill]

I would have a notebook ready and write notes when I call each service. Call all of them and don't be deterred or discouraged if they don't answer or don't call back. KEEP calling them and pursue them. Most of them are not great at phone work.

They'll want to know what YOU want from a hunt, so get that clear in your head. Any bull? Big bull only? Stationary hunt? Float hunt? Got 100% of your own camp gear? How many days to hunt minimum? How many in your group? Willing to hunt in the hills? River bottoms only? These are the things you should be able to tell them from the outset, and only you can decide what you want.

Things to ask:

What GMU(s) do you fly to? Specific zones within that GMU?
How would you describe the terrain in this area? Wet or dry?
What are the antler restrictions within your hunt areas?
What type of planes are you using?
Where would we be meeting you and flying from?
Are we the only hunters in the region (10 mile radius) while hunting?
Load limits per hunter?
How do you handle weather delays on either end?
How do you handle meat pickups after a bull is down?
Where do you take the meat and antlers after flying it out?
Give me a general idea of what I can expect to see (moose) during the hunt.
What are your charges? How do your prefer payment?
References: Ask him for at LEAST 5 names from the last year's hunt.
Try to find additional references through forums and web searching.

Be wary if ANY bad reports that seem to make sense and aren't unreasonable in nature. Some pilots like to overbook and then are always running short on time. If you can hear a consistent message (from references) about how no-nonsense and reliable a pilot is, that's a great start. Focus the conversation more on the pilot, his work ethic, organizational skills, and quality of service.

Next ask the reference about the actual hunt they went on. Maybe refer to the list of questions above. Focus less on what they killed, and more on what they saw. Good time to ask about terrain, obstacles, distances, etc. Also ask about whether they were adequately prepared and had the right gear based on what the pilot advised. End it by letting them tell you anything else they want.

One extra tidbit. Taxidermists depend on successful hunters. They often know which pilots and transporters are consistently getting hunters on game....and big game at that. There's nothing wrong with calling every taxidermist you want and asking them about a transporter referral. The ticket is to ask them if they know a good one, or who they might personally fly with. DON'T ask them if a pilot or service is any good or has problems: they're in business and unlikely to insult anyone else who could return the favor. If you have a likely transporter picked out, the better strategy is to mention the name somewhat casually and see (or finally ask) if the taxidermist has any thoughts on the guy.

 

[Yellowknife]

They'll want to know what YOU want from a hunt, so get that clear in your head. Any bull? Big bull only? Stationary hunt? Float hunt? Got 100% of your own camp gear? How many days to hunt minimum? How many in your group? Willing to hunt in the hills? River bottoms only? These are the things you should be able to tell them from the outset, and only you can decide what you want.

Things to ask:

What GMU(s) do you fly to? Specific zones within that GMU?
How would you describe the terrain in this area? Wet or dry?
What are the antler restrictions within your hunt areas?
What type of planes are you using?
Where would we be meeting you and flying from?
Are we the only hunters in the region (10 mile radius) while hunting?
Load limits per hunter?
How do you handle weather delays on either end?
How do you handle meat pickups after a bull is down?
Where do you take the meat and antlers after flying it out?
Give me a general idea of what I can expect to see (moose) during the hunt.
What are your charges? How do your prefer payment?
References: Ask him for at LEAST 5 names from the last year's hunt.
Try to find additional references through forums and web searching.

Be wary if ANY bad reports that seem to make sense and aren't unreasonable in nature. Some pilots like to overbook and then are always running short on time. If you can hear a consistent message (from references) about how no-nonsense and reliable a pilot is, that's a great start. Focus the conversation more on the pilot, his work ethic, organizational skills, and quality of service.

I think Kevin is speaking from experience and pretty much nailed it.

I do a lot of hiring of small flight services for my business, so I'll throw in some non-hunt related stuff. Note that while everyone is saying "ask about the safety record", EVERY operator out there will claim they have a stellar record. I have been involved in a number of safety audits, and trust me, even recent accidents will be brushed off as flukes. Google can be your friend here, as most significant crashes make the paper. Minor bent tubing and white knuckle near misses don't though, so other questions I ask are:

1. How many hours do your pilots have? I personally consider 1,500 hr as a bare minimum, and 5,000+ as experienced. Some of my favorite pilots have 20,000 or more hrs, but those guys are few and far between.

2. How long have you AND ALL OF YOUR PILOTS been flying this area? There is simply no substitute for local experience. I dodge operators that seem to have high pilot turn over.

3. Do you do flight tracking? It is common now for air taxis to use real time flight tracking with GPS / Satellite transmitters. Basically a SPOT or InReach in commercial form, or in the case of small operators, sometimes literally just a SPOT clipped on to the dash. Flight tracking greatly improves communications, as the base will know exactly where the aircraft is at all times (weather delays in the field). Also if there is a wreck, then SAR won't waste any time looking for your site.


You may not get happy answers to all those questions, but if you have options on the table it might allow you to compare between various operators.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

Kevin's post is pretty complete. To expand on a couple of his points:

The load limits are important. Some aircraft will limit your gear to 50 pounds, or 75, or 80, or 100 pounds per person. An extra 25 pounds of food and gear can make the difference between surviving and thriving during your hunt.

Types of aircraft will come into play when you figure out access. Lakes vs airstrips vs gravel bars. They also come into play with how many trips it takes to get your moose out. Do meat flights cost extra? If so, how much, and where do you take the meat? Is there a charge for taking the meat to a processor or meat locker?

The number of aircraft and pilots is important too. If they have 10 planes and 15 pilots, you likely won't be stranded because someone has the flu, or a part needs to be flown in from the lower 48. If it is just one dude and his plane, you may have a few unplanned days of delays on one end or the other.

 

[william schmaltz]

I think Kevin is speaking from experience and pretty much nailed it.

I do a lot of hiring of small flight services for my business, so I'll throw in some non-hunt related stuff. Note that while everyone is saying "ask about the safety record", EVERY operator out there will claim they have a stellar record. I have been involved in a number of safety audits, and trust me, even recent accidents will be brushed off as flukes. Google can be your friend here, as most significant crashes make the paper. Minor bent tubing and white knuckle near misses don't though, so other questions I ask are:

1. How many hours do your pilots have? I personally consider 1,500 hr as a bare minimum, and 5,000+ as experienced. Some of my favorite pilots have 20,000 or more hrs, but those guys are few and far between.

2. How long have you AND ALL OF YOUR PILOTS been flying this area? There is simply no substitute for local experience. I dodge operators that seem to have high pilot turn over.

Yeup, this was my first thought. You can ask about safety record all you want but it won't mean anything. Everyone in AK is safe, just ask them. I also book about 15-20 flights per year mostly for work and we always ask for pilot hours. I like it to be over 10,000 hours when booking guys. And I ask about the pilot experience in that particular area. If some guy has 10,000 hours flying in the mid west and is having his first season on Kodiak, I don't want to fly with him.

Google is your friend. Type in various forms of "TRANSPORTER crash" "TRANSPORTER accident" and you will find results. I would bet you can call a couple of the transporters with a couple crashes under their belt the last 5 years and they will claim to have a great safety record or make up some excuse.

I like to ask about what landing gear, how many planes, and how many access points. I was hunting in a personal plane in NW AK a few years ago when the only transporters were operating on wheels. They could land on about 4 strips total on a couple rivers because of all the rain. Every river was blown out. The amount of camps on the short stretches of them rivers was insane. I knew one of the dudes hunting on one of the rivers and he said they played lead frog with 3 others groups in the 10 day hunt. If they booked with operator that also ran floats, that contingency would have awarded them a much better hunt. Obviously if an transporter just does lake hunts and only operates on floats, this isn't an issue.

This is all in addition to the great advise posted by others.

 

[billy molls]

I agree with everything already said. The only things I could add is:

I'd MUCH rather have a 20,000-hour pilot whose walked away from a couple crashes than a 1,000-hour pilot with a clean record.

If you're looking for safety and quality, be sure to scrutinize high-volume operators very hard. Pilot turnover is typically very high and it's more likely camps are used back-to-back. Owner/pilot scenarios will good reviews would by my first choice.

I always advise hunters, if necessary, save another year, and go with whoever you feel gives you the best option.

Someone mentioned flying out meat. This one is HUGE! Many, if not most, will not service your camp until your hunt is done. If you have a moose down early, this leads to higher likelihood of bears in camp, and can consume extra time caring for meat. Meat care/flying out meat as you've packed it back to camp/airstrip/pond or lake is a big deal. I can't sleep at night if meat spoils. In my mind, this is one of the first things I would ask the operator/references. If they do everything possible to get your meat out as you get it down, you can bet they're running a pretty tight ship.

More than half of your success is determined the moment your dropped off. By that I mean, If you're hunting good country, even rookie moose hunters can experience great success. If you're hunting poor moose country, even veterans will struggle.

Hope that helps narrow your focus on the 1,000,001 things to consider.
Good Luck!

 

[HobbyShooter]

Thank you all for the excellent advice! I wasn't expecting so many replies so quickly. It looks like I've got several 15 to 30 minute conversations to have with some air transporters!

 

[Larry Bartlett]

I didn't read them all, but good advice herein. I would think to ask about pricing structure, and the reason prices vary is determined by whether they are:

License Air Transporter: Separate flight certificate with a commercial services board permit that ALLOWS marketing directly to hunters and providing where-to specific information. They can and usually do charge more for this information, which explains the price structure they offer (in most cases). These operators can legally charge more during hunting season than for off season fishing or float trips.

Air Taxi Operator: CAN NOT market directly to hunters and CAN NOT charge more for hunting services than they do for general flights off season. These operators usually charge an hourly rate and will not have hunting marketing or information available.

lb

 

[HobbyShooter]

Thanks, Larry! It sounds like potentially I could find a much cheaper flight if I go with an air taxi service, but I would need to have researched exactly where I want to go since they may not have scouted areas for moose ahead of the hunt. Am I right?

 

[AKDoc]

Thanks, Larry! It sounds like potentially I could find a much cheaper flight if I go with an air taxi service, but I would need to have researched exactly where I want to go since they may not have scouted areas for moose ahead of the hunt. Am I right?

I've used both many times, i.e., Air Taxi's and Air Transporters. As already noted, you definitely need to have a very specific destination point with an Air Taxi, and that can be pretty hard to determine in advance with no or little first hand experience in the area.

Another option is to contract with a reputable consultant...for example, Larry Bartlett. Ask him his rate to give guidance on a specific location to air taxi for a specific hunt, as well as recommendations for Air Taxi's. My hunch is that you may find you have saved money. Maybe worth an inquiry PM to him? At least then you could weigh the pro's and con's of Air Taxi vs Air Transporter.

...just to be clear...I do not work for Larry Bartlett, nor do I profit from my comments above. I have bought two of his excellent packrafts/inflatables, and I have found him to be a good man.

 

[gbflyer]

What kind of whiskey to bring and do you accept cash

 

[Corey Paulsen (teamkabob)]

Some great info on searching for a transporter! Thanks


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[Ozarkian]

Great info thanks for sharing guys