Which bullet would you pick? - Results from this morning's range session with bullet sample packs.

[Newtosavage]

I think you need to pick one bullet, one powder, and one primer to work with. Start 5 grains under, and work up in 1 grain increments.

If you are way off the node at that velocity and powder burn rate, you aren't going to find a magic bullet that makes that load work.

I choose my bullet, then work up the load. Not the other way around. Once I find the right velocity, I can interchange bullets of the same weight pretty reliably as long as I load them to similar velocity with the same powder.

Jeremy

That's usually good advice, and how I started out. I've done that with 5 different bullets now. 120 TSX, 120 TTSX, 139 Interlock, 139 GMX, and 139 SST. I'm tired of that approach. Exhausted really. That right there is nearly $150 worth of bullets and powder, not to mention hours and hours of my time.

Some bullets aren't going to shoot no matter what you do. Some barrels just don't like bullets of a certain weight. I think that's especially true in lighter profile barrels.

I can always fall back on the 120 TSX, but I am looking for a heavier option for larger game or longer shots. The 120 TSX is a good bullet, but it has some serious limitations beyond 300 yards.

 

[Newtosavage]

btw, I start my normal load workup 2 grains under max and work up in 0.3 grain increments. I'm never going to choose a load that's more than 2 grains under max, so I don't bother with any less than that. I've never seen any kind of pressure signs in any load at 2 grains under max, so until I do, that's as low as I'll go for my starting point. Usually, 2 grains under max is about 150 fps. slower than max (ballpark, but you get the idea) and I don't know many folks who will settle on a load that's 150 fps. less than what's possible for their combination.

Anyway, that's just how I usually start out. After 350 loads, I decided it was time to try a variety of bullets just to see if there was one or two that naturally wanted to group, then I'll do workups on those.

I think in the future, this is how I'm going to approach load workup for new barrels or rifles. I'm tired of having 2/3 full boxes of bullets on my loading shelf, with no intention of ever using them. That's a lot of wasted money.

 

[Newtosavage]

The tsx and interlock show potential. Maybe work on seating depths. Speeds aren't exciting, either.

It's a 20" barrel.

 

[Two Roads]

After you go thru the screws and making sure everything is both clear and torqued, I too want to suggest a different powder. We load for several 7mm-08s, dialing in each has been different. I would also suggest that using a standard COAL for all loads is not an efficient path. You are far better off to establish ogive baseline against magazine constraints. And, you also want to get the bullet base in line with bottom of brass neck if possible. Now all the coals will be slightly different but jump will be consistent. And this is only a data start point.

Next, you are chasing node, the point where the sine wave generated by the bullet traveling down the barrel is at the muzzle at the same time the bullet exits. This calms what a lot of folks call whip, much more evident in thin barrels but always present. While I like to tinker with different combos, 8208 was generally disappointing to "expectations". And definitely so as velocity was pushed.

Here are some favorites that work, all w CCI BR2 & Lapua
Rifle 1
Barnes 145 LRX W H4350 - 2.178
Berger VLD 140 w H4350 - 2.168
Hornady A-max w 8208 XBR (VERY ogive length sensitive) - 2.059

Rifle 2
Berger VLD 140 w H4350 - 2.116

Rifle 3
Berger VLD 140 w 8208 - 2.088
Berger VLD 140 w Varget - 2.179
Remington Express Core-lokt factory ammo

On every single load, I can make groups look like yours, really open, by ogive length change. And longer is not always better nor is last smidgeon of speed. All of these loads .5 or better.

Hope this helps.

 

[RDG_RNR]

Haven’t seen this asked, but are you shooting from a rest? Have you found a baseline with factory ammo yet? Where did you powder selection come from? Any signs of pressure? What did the chrono say?

With a good shooting position and solid fundamentals, factory ammo should get you around 1 MOA. Establish that first.

it can get expensive quick if you start throwing a million variables in (bullets/powder type/weight/seating depth/primer type) start with a baseline and work up from there.

I’ve been where you are and actually hunted factory amp for the first season on my new rifle because all I could find was that baseline. Then started my load development on the same bullet as the factory ammo and found a powder/charge that put me around the same velocity, then played with seating depth and dialed it in.

Good luck!

 

[Newtosavage]

Haven’t seen this asked, but are you shooting from a rest? Have you found a baseline with factory ammo yet? Where did you powder selection come from? Any signs of pressure? What did the chrono say?

With a good shooting position and solid fundamentals, factory ammo should get you around 1 MOA. Establish that first.

it can get expensive quick if you start throwing a million variables in (bullets/powder type/weight/seating depth/primer type) start with a baseline and work up from there.

I’ve been where you are and actually hunted factory amp for the first season on my new rifle because all I could find was that baseline. Then started my load development on the same bullet as the factory ammo and found a powder/charge that put me around the same velocity, then played with seating depth and dialed it in.

Good luck!

Yes, shooting from bags on a covered, solid concrete bench.

All the questions about powder make me wonder how many people have ever tried 8208 in their 7mm-08's. I doubt many people have. I've been using it for years out of no fewer than 5 7mm-08's I've owned, and it's been as accurate, or more accurate than any other powder I've tried, and it's incredibly temp. insensitive. Yes, I could try other powders, but one variable at a time, right?

Also, my magazine box is limited to about 2.85" tops. I started at 2.80 because that's a safe OAL for anything I feed this rifle. I could load my Tikka to 3.00" after my magazine and bolt stop mods, and Savage short actions also allow you to load to 3.00", but that's not an option here. I don't think it's a particular problem either, especially with the monos. People have suggested I try factory ammo, and it's all loaded to 2.80"

Two Roads, I appreciate your suggestions. Do any of the loads you mention that shoot .5" or better, come out of featherweight barrels?

 

[Elk botherer]

If elk is on the menu I’d stick with a bonded bullet. I’ve had great luck with the accubond and interbond but not so good luck with the sst. It shot very well but I shot an elk at 115 yards and the bullet splashed on the shoulder and didn’t even make it through the scapula. Took a follow up shot through the ribs to make a lethal kill. We’ve had zero problems with the accubonds and interbonds on several elk. Some punching through some serious elk territory while retaining mass and not destroying tons of meat. But take my experience with a grain of salt, my experience was with a 154 gr sst in a 7mm rem mag. Good luck in your pursuit of the right node!

 

[tunafed]

Not sure how far off the lands 2.8 coal is in your rifle but, being stuck in that range I would try a bullet that is possibly less sensitive to seating depth like a berger 150 CH and see if that shoots. If that doesn't work I would definitely try a different powder before springing for a new barrel.
In my experience mono's shoot better away from the lands but they are fairly sensitive to seating depth in my rifles. The barnes also seem to like being driven fast as well.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[pnw]

Be curious what are the other components same brand brass new or same # times fired ? , maybe try a lee collet die and or fcd I like cci, win brass, and h4350 but never loading that short of oal

 

[Newtosavage]

I hope nobody that recommended I try factory ammo is also saying I need to seat them longer than 2.80"

 

[muddydogs]

Honestly from the target I would say it's mostly you, good group of three rounds then two flyers leads me to believe from the information I have that you need to work on your shooting. When I get groups like that especially if I haven't shot in a while I know its time to pull out the small caliber rifles and work on my shooting and trigger control.

Other then you I think you need to also work on your load process. You took a bunch of bullets and a random powder weight and basically wasted a bunch of components. One box of 50 bullets and a 25 bullet load work up would have given you better results then what you posted, use the other 25 bullets in the box to proof the load or adjust seating depth and powder weight slightly.

 

[blkqi]

If you already have some on the shelf, it wouldn't hurt to give Varget a try.

 

[Newtosavage]

Honestly from the target I would say it's mostly you, good group of three rounds then two flyers leads me to believe from the information I have that you need to work on your shooting. When I get groups like that especially if I haven't shot in a while I know its time to pull out the small caliber rifles and work on my shooting and trigger control.

Other then you I think you need to also work on your load process. You took a bunch of bullets and a random powder weight and basically wasted a bunch of components. One box of 50 bullets and a 25 bullet load work up would have given you better results then what you posted, use the other 25 bullets in the box to proof the load or adjust seating depth and powder weight slightly.

Did you not read what I wrote above about going through five boxes of bullets during normal workup first?

My shooting is fine. I can take either of my Howa Mini's and shoot 1/2-3/4" all day long. Did it alongside this rifle a couple outings ago, switching back and forth between them. It's not the shooter.

 

[Newtosavage]

If you already have some on the shelf, it wouldn't hurt to give Varget a try.

I would if I did, and that might be the next powder I try. I do have some H4895 on the shelf, and I may try it next.

For some reason, I have confidence in that E-Tip load. I think it's gonna work out. We'll see in a week or so.

 

[doverpack12]

That's usually good advice, and how I started out. I've done that with 5 different bullets now. 120 TSX, 120 TTSX, 139 Interlock, 139 GMX, and 139 SST. I'm tired of that approach. Exhausted really. That right there is nearly $150 worth of bullets and powder, not to mention hours and hours of my time.

Some bullets aren't going to shoot no matter what you do. Some barrels just don't like bullets of a certain weight. I think that's especially true in lighter profile barrels.

I can always fall back on the 120 TSX, but I am looking for a heavier option for larger game or longer shots. The 120 TSX is a good bullet, but it has some serious limitations beyond 300 yards.

hate to break it to you since you already ordered more ETips but if the 120 is limited beyond 300 don’t even consider going beyond 300 with a 140 etip. I really like etips and have used them since they first came out, however, like any mono they need speed and lots of it. Going up 20 grains in weight is starting you slower than the 120. That 120 barnes is going to perform more like a 140 class bullet so in my mind you are chasing a heavy bullet load when you have an equal performer. Now if you want to extend effective range then stick to the lead core bullets and drop weight to gain some speed.

 

[Newtosavage]

hate to break it to you since you already ordered more ETips but if the 120 is limited beyond 300 don’t even consider going beyond 300 with a 140 etip. I really like etips and have used them since they first came out, however, like any mono they need speed and lots of it. Going up 20 grains in weight is starting you slower than the 120. That 120 barnes is going to perform more like a 140 class bullet so in my mind you are chasing a heavy bullet load when you have an equal performer. Now if you want to extend effective range then stick to the lead core bullets and drop weight to gain some speed.

Don't worry. You're not "breaking" anything to me. Thankfully I have ballistic calculators at my fingertips and can run the calculations myself. At the elevation and average atmospheric conditions I typically hunt, the 140 E-Tip leaving the bore at 2800 fps. will still be traveling over 2200 fps. and carrying over 1400 ft. lbs. of energy at 500 yards. I'm good with that since I really never plan to shoot beyond 400 anyway.

What you're not accounting for is the difference in BC between the 140 E-Tip and the 120 TSX. The 120 TSX is a good and accurate bullet from this rifle, but the BC is so poor that its velocity drops off quickly beyond 300 yards. The 120 TSX will carry less velocity, even leaving the bore at nearly 3K, than the 140 E-Tip will have at 500 yards, and over 300 fewer ft. lbs. of energy. At 300 yards, the velocity difference is only 11 fps.

Dropping weight to gain effective range runs counter to most people's approach, from what I have seen. I am chasing heavier bullets specifically to gain more performance beyond 300 yards, not less.

I plan to continue testing the 154 Interbond, because it has a high BC and will carry a lot of energy downrange. If I can get under 1.5 MOA with that bullet, I'll just set it aside as my elk load for the next time I chase elk. The 154 Interbond, even leaving the bore at 2680, will be carrying over 1650 ft. lbs. of energy at 2200 fps at 500 yards. That sounds like pretty good elk medicine to me.

 

[doverpack12]

Don't worry. You're not "breaking" anything to me. Thankfully I have ballistic calculators at my fingertips and can run the calculations myself. At the elevation and average atmospheric conditions I typically hunt, the 140 E-Tip leaving the bore at 2800 fps. will still be traveling over 2200 fps. and carrying over 1400 ft. lbs. of energy at 500 yards. I'm good with that since I really never plan to shoot beyond 400 anyway.

What you're not accounting for is the difference in BC between the 140 E-Tip and the 120 TSX. The 120 TSX is a good and accurate bullet from this rifle, but the BC is so poor that its velocity drops off quickly beyond 300 yards. The 120 TSX will carry less velocity, even leaving the bore at nearly 3K, than the 140 E-Tip will have at 500 yards, and over 300 fewer ft. lbs. of energy. At 300 yards, the velocity difference is only 11 fps.

Dropping weight to gain effective range runs counter to most people's approach, from what I have seen. I am chasing heavier bullets specifically to gain more performance beyond 300 yards, not less.

I plan to continue testing the 154 Interbond, because it has a high BC and will carry a lot of energy downrange. If I can get under 1.5 MOA with that bullet, I'll just set it aside as my elk load for the next time I chase elk. The 154 Interbond, even leaving the bore at 2680, will be carrying over 1650 ft. lbs. of energy at 2200 fps at 500 yards. That sounds like pretty good elk medicine to me.

dropping weight only applies with monos. 2200 would be about as slow as I would want an etip to impact but if it gets you to 500 great.

 

[Newtosavage]

dropping weight only applies with monos. 2200 would be about as slow as I would want an etip to impact but if it gets you to 500 great.

Conditions would have to be perfect for me to take a 500 yard shot on any live game. Either that, or it would have to be an animal I already have a bullet in.

 

[HighUintas]

@Newtosavage , how about Speer hot cor bullets? I've been thinking of trying the 145gr in my kids 7m-08, but haven't done it yet. They should be good to 400 yards, and all the reports I've read about them is that they are extremely tough for not technically being a bonded bullet and work well on elk. At the price point of $25 for 100 bullets, it might be worth a shot.

 

[Rob5589]

For the Barnes, I'd be looking at impact speed over energy. Barnes recommends 1800 fps min impact speed for the TTSX, although I have seen actual users saying 2000 fps is better. Something to consider when looking at data.