Which sleeping bags for all season coverage?

[sneaky]

Sneaky
I think you missed my point. I am aware of the difference between fill weights. I don’t believe this is an apples to oranges comparison. WM states 850+ fill weight OV states 800+ fill weight using 900 to 800 is showing a bias on your part. The difference between 850+ and 800+ is minimal. Even using 900 to 800 you even showed the OV has more loft as per your math.

Comparison-

Fill weight:

WM- 32oz of 850+
OV- 38oz of 800+

Overall weight:

WM- 2lbs 15oz
OV- 3lbs 3.5oz

Price:

WM- $700
OV-$300


As I previously stated Western Mountaineering makes great bags and if given both bags out in the field I do not believe I would be able to rate one over the other. The OV should be slightly warmer just based on the volume the down takes up ( 30,476 vs 28,800 )The VERY noticeable difference come when you pay for them. The WM is approximately $700. Where as the OV is $300. I can not see spending $400 more for a 4.5oz weight savings. Plus as you said Outdoor Vitals uses DWR down where as Western Mountaineering does not. A plus for Outdoor Vitals IMO.

If you go with the -10 WM bags the difference in price get greater and the WM bags get narrower. But the OV still holds its own in comparing overall weight and fill weight.

You're also comparing two different ratings in your bag comparisons. A -15 rated OV against a 0 degree WM. Hell, the OV better have more down load in it when using that example. I guess you don't want to consider that a -10 WM Bristlecone has 45oz of higher fill power down than the -15 OV. You really should use both brands side by side and compare before trying to claim that OV bags are warmer than directly comparable WM bags.

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[sneaky]

Just ordered my WM Versalite from Hermit's Hut. They do a free 3oz overstuff and their base price is a few $$ less. Had some questions and they got right back to me even on a Sat and Sun afternoon. Can't wait to see the bag, it is my first "quality" bag. Tent and pack are next, likely both from SO.

What length bag did you go with? Versalite is a nice bag.

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[CO-AJ]

What length bag did you go with? Versalite is a nice bag.

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What length bag did you go with? Versalite is a nice bag.

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I went with the 6'6" length. Mainly because I like to sleep on my side and stomach and I am 5'11". I thought the 6' would be just a bit to short.

 

[TonySkyline]

I'm still mind blown that the SG bag is made in China at that price point.... what the heck! Isn't their packs, and gear made in USA?

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[Elkslayer67]

You're also comparing two different ratings in your bag comparisons. A -15 rated OV against a 0 degree WM. Hell, the OV better have more down load in it when using that example. I guess you don't want to consider that a -10 WM Bristlecone has 45oz of higher fill power down than the -15 OV. You really should use both brands side by side and compare before trying to claim that OV bags are warmer than directly comparable WM bags.

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Sneaky
I am not using the ratings as a comparison. The ratings of bags are put there by the manufacturer and as such are their opinion. I use their ratings only to compare bags within a manufacturers own products.
The temp rating is different from person to person. You might be able to use a certain 0 degree bag down to 0 degrees where as I may be only able to only use it down to 20 degrees. As such, when comparing bags insulating value you need to know the actual loft in each bag. This is a simple mathematical equation. ( fill power x ounces of fill dividend by square inches of coverage = inches of loft ).
The insulation value is directly related to the amount of loft. The more loft the warmer the bag.
I use the published specifications for each comparison. WM and OV both state that their fill weight value is conservative. Without publishing a higher weight in the description of the bag this is propaganda and opinion.
Here is a scientific comparison of two bags from each company.
From Western Mountaineering I chose the 6’6” Kodiak and the 6’6” Bristlecone MF. From Outdoor Vitals I chose the 6’6”-15 degree Summit and the 6’6” 0 degree Summit.
The temperature rating is used just to distinguish which bag I am comparing. This is a bag to bag comparison.
Kodiak-
32 oz of 850 down = 27,200 cubic inches of loft
67” s 41” f by 6’6” length = 4,212 square inches of surface
27,200 divided by 4,212 = 6.46” of loft
Cost $730.00 or $99.32 per inch of loft

Bristlecone MF-
45 oz of 850 down = 38,250 cubic inches of loft
69” s 48” f by 6’6” length = 4,563 square inches of surface
38,250 divided by 4,563 = 8.38” of loft
Cost $955.00 or $113.96 per inch of loft

-15 degree Summit-
38 oz 800 down = 30,400 cubic inches of loft
68” s 38” f by 6’6” length = 4,134 square inches of surface
30,400 divided by 4,134 = 7.35” of loft
Cost $309.00 or $42.04 per inch of loft

0 degree Summit-
27 oz 800 down = 21,600 cubic inches of loft
68” s 38” f by 6’6” length = 4,134 square inches of surface
21,600 divided by 4,134 = 5.22” of loft
Cost $280.00 or $ 53.64 per inch of loft

So what does this prove?

Comparing the WM Kodiak to the Outdoor Vitals -15 degree Summit ( which was my original comparison). The Outdoor Vitals -15 degree Summit is warmer than the Western Mountaineering Kodiak and is half the price. Showing Outdoor Vitals is the best value which is the point I was giving on my original post

It also shows Western Mountaineering has a more conservative temperature rating. That is why I compared bag to bag not temperature rating to temperature rating between companies.

I am willing to debate this more if you want. But I think I have proven my point using the facts not opinion.

Both of these companies put out great bags and as I have previously stated out in the field I do not believe there would be a great difference. The major difference comes when you pay for them.

 

[Elkslayer67]

Sneaky
I am not using the ratings as a comparison. The ratings of bags are put there by the manufacturer and as such are their opinion. I use their ratings only to compare bags within a manufacturers own products.
The temp rating is different from person to person. You might be able to use a certain 0 degree bag down to 0 degrees where as I may be only able to only use it down to 20 degrees. As such, when comparing bags insulating value you need to know the actual loft in each bag. This is a simple mathematical equation. ( fill power x ounces of fill dividend by square inches of coverage = inches of loft ).
The insulation value is directly related to the amount of loft. The more loft the warmer the bag.
I use the published specifications for each comparison. WM and OV both state that their fill weight value is conservative. Without publishing a higher weight in the description of the bag this is propaganda and opinion.
Here is a scientific comparison of two bags from each company.
From Western Mountaineering I chose the 6’6” Kodiak and the 6’6” Bristlecone MF. From Outdoor Vitals I chose the 6’6”-15 degree Summit and the 6’6” 0 degree Summit.
The temperature rating is used just to distinguish which bag I am comparing. This is a bag to bag comparison.
Kodiak-
32 oz of 850 down = 27,200 cubic inches of loft
67” s 41” f by 6’6” length = 4,212 square inches of surface
27,200 divided by 4,212 = 6.46” of loft
Cost $730.00 or $99.32 per inch of loft

Bristlecone MF-
45 oz of 850 down = 38,250 cubic inches of loft
69” s 48” f by 6’6” length = 4,563 square inches of surface
38,250 divided by 4,563 = 8.38” of loft
Cost $955.00 or $113.96 per inch of loft

-15 degree Summit-
38 oz 800 down = 30,400 cubic inches of loft
68” s 38” f by 6’6” length = 4,134 square inches of surface
30,400 divided by 4,134 = 7.35” of loft
Cost $309.00 or $42.04 per inch of loft

0 degree Summit-
27 oz 800 down = 21,600 cubic inches of loft
68” s 38” f by 6’6” length = 4,134 square inches of surface
21,600 divided by 4,134 = 5.22” of loft
Cost $280.00 or $ 53.64 per inch of loft

So what does this prove?

Comparing the WM Kodiak to the Outdoor Vitals -15 degree Summit ( which was my original comparison). The Outdoor Vitals -15 degree Summit is warmer than the Western Mountaineering Kodiak and is half the price. Showing Outdoor Vitals is the best value which is the point I was giving on my original post

It also shows Western Mountaineering has a more conservative temperature rating. That is why I compared bag to bag not temperature rating to temperature rating between companies.

I am willing to debate this more if you want. But I think I have proven my point using the facts not opinion.

Both of these companies put out great bags and as I have previously stated out in the field I do not believe there would be a great difference. The major difference comes when you pay for them.

I should state this is potential loft. The loft can be restricted by the volume potential of the bag.

 

[kikkan]

Hi There! How does the Nemo Forte 20f hold up to the warmth rating?
I like the fit/girth but i want to know if its warm enough.. Theres not many reviews of it online.
Thanks

Welcome.

Most would say that western mountaineering is or is at the top of the heap for backcountry bags. One will chew up a good chunk of your $1k budget but they will five years of service.

For your summer bag, maybe consider something synthetic. I have and like a Nemo forte and have become a big fan of their products in general. I also have an enlightened equipment convert that is a bag / quilt hybrid. The 30* version in apex is fairly cheap and great for warm weather because you can open it up and vent easily. I am a bigger guy so shoulder room tends to influence my choices and all the bags above are roomy.