Why Hunting Isn't Conservation Article

[jolemons]

I heard this guy on a podcast, so read the article to see what his points were. Surprisingly, he makes a cogent argument that I tend to agree with. I've been concerned about hunters going all in with the hunting is conservation justification lately.

Why Hunting Isn’t Conservation, and Why It Matters

By Kevin Bixby Featured Image (c) laura c carlson, Canid Collapse, graphite, watercolor, and mulberry ink, 2020 In late December 2014, I received a call from

rewilding.org

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[KHNC]

I heard this guy on a podcast, so read the article to see what his points were. Surprisingly, he makes a cogent argument that I tend to agree with. I've been concerned about hunters going all in with the hunting is conservation justification lately.

Why Hunting Isn’t Conservation, and Why It Matters

By Kevin Bixby Featured Image (c) laura c carlson, Canid Collapse, graphite, watercolor, and mulberry ink, 2020 In late December 2014, I received a call from

rewilding.org

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I see you are still on the anti hunting road. I know you claim to hunt, but your posts seem to say different.

 

[tt_johnsclist]

OP thanks for posting this

 

[Buffinnut]

I heard this guy on a podcast, so read the article to see what his points were. Surprisingly, he makes a cogent argument that I tend to agree with. I've been concerned about hunters going all in with the hunting is conservation justification lately.

Why Hunting Isn’t Conservation, and Why It Matters

By Kevin Bixby Featured Image (c) laura c carlson, Canid Collapse, graphite, watercolor, and mulberry ink, 2020 In late December 2014, I received a call from

rewilding.org

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Did you look into the author at all? He is an anti hunting white male hating racist campaigning for “no border wall”
Full blown San Francisco
California crazy

 

[Buffinnut]

 

[Buffinnut]

 

[jolemons]

Did you look into the author at all? He is an anti hunting white male hating racist campaigning for “no border wall”
Full blown San Francisco
California crazy

Don't really care about his beliefs. I'm only focusing on his arguments.

We're all-in on the hunting is conservation movement, which IMO is a weak leg to stand on. If we don't figure out how to assimilate with the non-hunting majority we're in trouble. Ballot box biology and policy that is created via the popular vote is not going in our favor. If you don't consider his arguments so that we can realize and correct our short comings, you're being naive.

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[jolemons]

I see you are still on the anti hunting road. I know you claim to hunt, but your posts seem to say different.

Yep, hunt, guide, land manager, rancher, Capitalist, pro 2A, Christian. Go search my posts over the last 8-9 years, good luck finding anti-hunting comments. Pro native species conservation and ecological diversity, for sure.

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[Buffinnut]

It’s all emotion, opinion, demonizing hunting and anti white male. It has nothing to do with hunters actually being conservationists or not.
He’s just trying to trigger more crazies to his side.

 

[Buffinnut]

So you say you agree with his arguments in your first post.
You agree that the North American model doesn’t work?
That we should spread wolves everywhere and not control their population?
Have the general public not biologists decide how to manage wildlife and eliminate hunting?
You agree that hunting is only for privileged white males?
That everything will naturally balance itself out?

Even though humans have permanently destroyed much of the habitat in our country and continue to expand and develop at an astounding rate?

This kind of argument will always lead to mass extinction. The uninformed urban masses will always pick their new house in the suburbs, new car, Starbucks and their iPhone over wild animals and wild places when it comes down to it.

These anti hunting people need to realize we aren’t the enemy, the exploding population of throw away soft Americans are the enemy. “A swarm of locusts in stretch pants” that will consume everything and damn the consequences

If the anti hunters really cared about the future of wildlife and the environment they would recognize that hunters want to see all species thrive and fight for wildlife and wild places just like they do.

What they really care about is this emotional response they get when they think about us “murdering an innocent animal”

 

[tpicou]

While hunting is a tool in the conservation tool chest it is only a single tool. I think this is what the hunting community forgets and is my problem with the phrase, "hunting is conservation." Hunting isn't conservation. Conservation is conservation. Hunting is a conservation tool. We are hunters first and conservationists second. Why do I say this? What happens if wildlife biologists conduct studies that show something else could replace hunting and that other thing would do a better job promoting biological diversity? If we are truly conservationists then we would have no problem giving up hunting for the sake of biological diversity. But, we are hunters so I highly doubt we'd be willing to give it up so readily.

This is often a problem we have with the "trophy hunting" vs phototourism debate in the various African countries. As of right now both hunting and phototourism are necessary conservation tools but honestly that could change at any moment. If we hang our hats on the "hunting is conservation" phrase then the second it is no longer a viable conservation tool we get screwed. There is nothing wrong with admitting that we simply like to hunt because we like to hunt. It provides food, jobs, enjoyment, and has a conservation benefit.

I'm glad hunting has conservation benefits but to be honest even if it didn't I would still hunt.

 

[gbflyer]

Always appreciate opposing or differing views. Thanks for posting. Couple things. First, he needs to learn that less is more. I found myself skimming and may have missed it. Secondly, nowhere in his volume of War and Peace did he address the fact that there are way more people in the world these days which hugely changes the dynamics. Finally, the load of hypocrisy was as odiferous as the rendering plant when he portrayed wildlife biologists as pawns of the hunting community yet used science to prop up his climate change rhetoric.

In closing, another one for the echo chamber. Hope he didn’t spend too much time behind a keyboard.

 

[jolemons]

While hunting is a tool in the conservation tool chest it is only a single tool. I think this is what the hunting community forgets and is my problem with the phrase, "hunting is conservation." Hunting isn't conservation. Conservation is conservation. Hunting is a conservation tool. We are hunters first and conservationists second. Why do I say this? What happens if wildlife biologists conduct studies that show something else could replace hunting and that other thing would do a better job promoting biological diversity? If we are truly conservationists then we would have no problem giving up hunting for the sake of biological diversity. But, we are hunters so I highly doubt we'd be willing to give it up so readily.

This is often a problem we have with the "trophy hunting" vs phototourism debate in the various African countries. As of right now both hunting and phototourism are necessary conservation tools but honestly that could change at any moment. If we hang our hats on the "hunting is conservation" phrase then the second it is no longer a viable conservation tool we get screwed. There is nothing wrong with admitting that we simply like to hunt because we like to hunt. It provides food, jobs, enjoyment, and has a conservation benefit.

I'm glad hunting has conservation benefits but to be honest even if it didn't I would still hunt.

Interesting concluding thought. Without being too introspective, I think I would also hunt if hunting had no conservation benefits. However, if hunting practices became harmful to conservation, I would willingly sacrifice hunting in lieu of sound conservation practices.

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[realunlucky]

Where does the money come from if not from hunting? I'd love to see the numbers

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[jolemons]

Where does the money come from if not from hunting? I'd love to see the numbers

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In NM where the author lives, revenues in 2017 were approximately 62% license sales and 35% Fed aid. I think his funding argument is a little off base.

My takeaway regarding his $ point is that if non-hunters become the primary source of funding ("backpack tax", general fund, etc) than we could expect to lose some seats at the table. I am all for more money being spent on conservation, especially from non-consumptive users, but I am afraid of us losing our voice in the process. I think that's a serious implication to consider.


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[jolemons]

It’s all emotion, opinion, demonizing hunting and anti white male. It has nothing to do with hunters actually being conservationists or not.
He’s just trying to trigger more crazies to his side.

By bringing race into the issue, it got a little out there, I agree fully.

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[Jbehredt]

Easy test to see who cares more about a wildlife and wild places. Charge non residents $600 a week to hike or camp or MTB in CO. Doesn’t fit his narrative but the world we live in often requires you to follow the money.

 

[TomJoad]

Thank you for the posting this, really appreciate seeing diverging perspectives present on RS.

Really liked the "mutualistic" vs. "domination" perspective specifically which was new for me:

"Among the general public, more people hold a mutualistic outlook (35%) than domination (28%).[vii] The mutualistic orientation has been ascendant in the U.S. at least since 2004, according to the survey. Hunters and wildlife managers, on the other hand, tend to hold a domination orientation—a set of values that are in retreat."

 

[Hoodie]

If the general public wants as much of a say in wildlife management, then they´re going to need to care as much as I do.

I haven´t heard any non-hunters in my state talk about the plummeting bull to cow ratios in some units. Or calf recruitment. Or winter kill. That´s because they don´t know. And they don´t know because they really don´t have a reason to care. I don´t see a way around this.

The general public just isn´t going to give enough shits about the status of their local deer herd to go to meetings and voice their opinions. They don´t have opinions, because opinions require working knowledge and experience. Portland OR is smack in the middle of two mountain ranges with plenty of elk. I´d be willing to bet over half of the people who live there have never laid eyes on one in the wild.

This guy is mentioning hunting in North America in the same sentence as the global extinction crisis (which is a very real problem) as if they´re seriously connected. If you have legitimate concerns about global biodiversity loss North American hunting is about the last thing you should care about. Care are about habitat loss, rising levels of ocean acidity, melting ice caps. Care about major global economies built around pathological consumption.

There isn´t a single species of game regularly and legally hunted in this country in danger of going extinct. No one can look at historical population trends of popular game animals here and argue it´s bad news for a species if people want to hunt it.

Weak argument.

 

[KHNC]

Yep, hunt, guide, land manager, rancher, Capitalist, pro 2A, Christian. Go search my posts over the last 8-9 years, good luck finding anti-hunting comments. Pro native species conservation and ecological diversity, for sure.

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However you want to spin it. I formed my opinion about you when you wrote about loving wolves and saying they didnt hurt elk or deer populations.