Wolf Reduction Bill

Customweld

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Does anyone think they will stop with wolves? Are they going to decide that the Weiser River zones hold too many bear and open that up for wholesale hunting? What about the elk depredation problems on ag ground? Are they going to hand the management and tags over to landowners?
 

Mtnboy

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Those people would stop all hunting and fishing if they could. Zero chance of going anywhere.

Of course they would, that's beside the point. The point is, they were leaving Idaho alone when it came to Wolf management until the idiots in office decided to put Idaho in the cross hairs again.

Didn't Wyoming try a similar management method and then get sued in to not being able to hunt them for a few years? Am I remembering that wrong?

We already had very liberal Wolf seasons, it'd help if a bunch of you guys who love to bitch about Wolves would drag yourself off the couch and actually go hunt them. Most folks I know who bitch the most don't actually make any effort at all to hunt them. Hell, there is a guy in this thread who claims to be able to see them weekly, has them running through his camp and run by him at 10 yards but is too lazy to actually shoot any....that speaks volumes.
 

Mtnboy

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Does anyone think they will stop with wolves? Are they going to decide that the Weiser River zones hold too many bear and open that up for wholesale hunting? What about the elk depredation problems on ag ground? Are they going to hand the management and tags over to landowners?
This has been brought up multiple times and the ones who seem to think this Wolf legislation is so great just blindly ignore it.

The cats out of the bag now..... Elk near Ag are next, stamp it.
 

sneaky

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What will the opinion be when the legislature votes to make all deer and elk tags draw only? Or, when they cook up an arrangement like UT DNR has with SFW and raffles off public tags but the state only gets 30% of the proceeds? Landowner tags that can be sold? What's to stop them with wolves? You know the same ranchers pushing for this are going to be on board with all of those as well. Especially being able to sell tags to hunt their ranches. It's a slippery slope when the legislature starts meddling.

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204guy

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But it's the biologists recommending it.

On a similar note the western land prices thread has me thinking now might be the time to sell my ocean front property in WY. Prices have never been higher.
 

mproberts

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This thread has gone the way of most wolf threads, people just get real stupid real quick. I don't understand why people can't have an educated discussion about it without being labeled one way or another. Everyone here is a hunter and I doubt you are going to find anyone on here that wants more wolves than are already present in ID.

I think much of the passionate responses against legislative wildlife management are people trying to police/educate our own. It sort of boggles my mind that hunters wouldn't be supportive of biologist/professional based management decisions.

Hunters are the minority let us not forget that, if management was left up to the masses I don't think we would like where things end up in 50 years (see CA for your example). The optics of ID's decision isn't great and every hunter should be concerned with optics because ultimately we hunt because the non-hunting public allows it.
 
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Customweld

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Elk Green field hunts already exist and are helping with management,
Liberal wolf trapping and hunting seasons already exist. What tool in this bill is going to increase wolf harvest over what we are already doing? Funneling money to a "private contractor", is that the ticket?
 

dtrkyman

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Government 101, let’s pay for something we could make money on!


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Idaho4x4Bronco

Idaho4x4Bronco

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Of course they would, that's beside the point. The point is, they were leaving Idaho alone when it came to Wolf management until the idiots in office decided to put Idaho in the cross hairs again.

Didn't Wyoming try a similar management method and then get sued in to not being able to hunt them for a few years? Am I remembering that wrong?

We already had very liberal Wolf seasons, it'd help if a bunch of you guys who love to bitch about Wolves would drag yourself off the couch and actually go hunt them. Most folks I know who bitch the most don't actually make any effort at all to hunt them. Hell, there is a guy in this thread who claims to be able to see them weekly, has them running through his camp and run by him at 10 yards but is too lazy to actually shoot any....that speaks volumes.
Nice assumption.
 

robby denning

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here’s a link to another thread I started. I actually did a search first, and it didn’t show me this thread you guys are posting on.

No matter, that link is to a clean thread with easy info on supporting the governor on this.

Remember, he needs our support long after the law is signed, this country doesn’t operate on the law much anymore, it’s all about judges and lawsuits.
 

Mtnboy

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here’s a link to another thread I started. I actually did a search first, and it didn’t show me this thread you guys are posting on.

No matter, that link is to a clean thread with easy info on supporting the governor on this.

Remember, he needs our support long after the law is signed, this country doesn’t operate on the law much anymore, it’s all about judges and lawsuits.
Should we support them next year when the Ag Lobby pushes through a Bill to kill off a bunch of Elk? You know to save the poor ranchers...I mean how are they gonna buy a brand new F350 every year if they don't get help from their buddies in the Government right?

This Bill is short sited and opening up a can of worms in so many ways.

I suppose you are right that if we want to keep Wolves from going back on the ESA through lawsuits that at this point we might as well jump on board and support it.....
 

Pacific_Fork

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Should we support them next year when the Ag Lobby pushes through a Bill to kill off a bunch of Elk? You know to save the poor ranchers...I mean how are they gonna buy a brand new F350 every year if they don't get help from their buddies in the Government right?

This Bill is short sited and opening up a can of worms in so many ways.

I suppose you are right that if we want to keep Wolves from going back on the ESA through lawsuits that at this point we might as well jump on board and support it.....
I fully understand where this argument is coming from and the fear of where this kind of thing can lead, but there’s no indication that elk/deer populations will be on the chopping block next. If so, pitch forks will be deployed swiftly from all hunters.

The bottom line is Idaho was suppose to manage for 150 wolves and they are at over 1500. When there’s a 10x surplus in elk in “x” units they give out more tags and the population will adjust by hunters rather quickly.

Hunters/trappers will NEVER reduce the wolf population to 150. I’m still on the fence because I cringe at the idea of the poison and helicopter methods.

Thoughts?
 

Hoodie

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So are we pro ballot box biology and management via legislation or against it?

I lost track.

I feel like a couple months back (when California bear hunting was on the chopping block, wolves were getting reintroduced to Colorado, and New Mexico was banning trapping) we were all about letting professional biologists handle our game management.

I guess that´s changed. Iḿ sure the Humane Society and Senator Weiner down in San Francisco will be relieved to know we´ve reconsidered our position.
 

Customweld

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I fully understand where this argument is coming from and the fear of where this kind of thing can lead, but there’s no indication that elk/deer populations will be on the chopping block next. If so, pitch forks will be deployed swiftly from all hunters.

The bottom line is Idaho was suppose to manage for 150 wolves and they are at over 1500. When there’s a 10x surplus in elk in “x” units they give out more tags and the population will adjust by hunters rather quickly.

Hunters/trappers will NEVER reduce the wolf population to 150. I’m still on the fence because I cringe at the idea of the poison and helicopter methods.

Thoughts?
IFG is bound by law to minimize damage or depredation from game animals. If the ag industry decides that IFG isn't doing enough, it won't matter how many pitchforks are carried. Elk and sportsmen are going to lose. Legislators have been salivating at the thought of giving landowners tags to sale and this certainly helps open the door for that.

Idaho reached the threshold of the minimum population somewhere around '98 or '99. It took until 2009 for us to wade through all of the lawsuits and get a season going. This new law puts a giant target on Idaho, who was largely left on it's own to manage harvests. We all know that trapping is the most effective tool (outside of aerial gunning and poison campaigns) to effectively harvest wolves. We also know that trapping is one good PR campaign from being outlawed. This really puts us under a microscope with outside interest groups with bottomless pocketbooks . Best outcome, nothing really changes. Maybe a few more wolves killed every year. Worst outcome, Idaho loses management altogether, trapping is banned and we are back to 2005.
 

Conundrum

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Seems to me the ag industry wants more tax payer help to make their businesses successful which aligns with having the government stay out of their businesses right? They can currently deal with wolf problems on their own dime pretty easily under current laws by hiring an agent to hunt for them. But because we're a good ol' conservative less laws are better state, might as well pass some more laws all the while asking tax payers to foot the bill for private industry.

Idaho Statute 36-1107

(c) Control of Depredation of Wolves. Wolves may be disposed of by livestock or domestic animal owners, their employees, agents and animal damage control personnel when the same are molesting or attacking livestock or domestic animals and it shall not be necessary to obtain any permit from the department. Wolves so taken shall be reported to the director within ten (10) days of being taken. Wolves so taken shall remain the property of the state. Livestock and domestic animal owners may take all nonlethal steps they deem necessary to protect their property. A permit must be obtained from the director to control wolves not molesting or attacking livestock or domestic animals. Control is also permitted by owners, their employees and agents pursuant to the Idaho department of fish and game harvest rules. For the purposes of this subsection, "molesting" means the actions of a wolf that are annoying, disturbing or persecuting, especially with hostile intent or injurious effect, or chasing, driving, flushing, worrying, following after or on the trail of, or stalking or lying in wait for, livestock or domestic animals.

I'm all for less wolves. I don't like the precedent this is setting and would prefer the legislature to allow the commission the responsibilities already in Idaho code to manage wildlife. There will be a time when we're bitching about the legislature passing laws to cull elk because of crop loss. Be careful what we wish for.

This bill was grandstanding and pandering to special interests. How many bills were introduced for rustling, cats, coyotes, open range car strikes etc. You know, far more detrimental causes to cattle loss. Zero because there's already laws on the books for those right? Just like Idaho Statute 36-1107.

Just another classic wolf rant thread for and against them. I know I'm not changing any minds here. What I hope is that as hunters, we can see bigger picture and what these types of bills could mean in the future.
 

Pacific_Fork

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Ok, so how do you suggest we get wolf numbers down to objective? Everyone loves to hunt deer and elk. Bear is gaining popularity and is actually achievable. Going out spot and stalk wolf hunting is not effective. How do we force idaho’ns to get off their ass in the winter and run more trap lines to get wolves to 150? I am one more Ca transplant heading your way next year and I’ll be taking a trapping course first thing.

BTW very nice buck in your profile pic! @Customweld
 

Customweld

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Ok, so how do you suggest we get wolf numbers down to objective? Everyone loves to hunt deer and elk. Bear is gaining popularity and is actually achievable. Going out spot and stalk wolf hunting is not effective. How do we force idaho’ns to get off their ass in the winter and run more trap lines to get wolves to 150? I am one more Ca transplant heading your way next year and I’ll be taking a trapping course first thing.

BTW very nice buck in your profile pic! @Customweld
Thank you @Pacific_Fork ! I 'm not sure what the solution is. You have to be set up to hunt these guys in the winter. Snowmobiles or something that can get you around in deep snow. Time, finances, dedication and skill are attributes that few of us have in one bunch. These animals are extremely intelligent and once they are educated, they are tough to get back onto. Honestly nothing short of an outbreak of Parvo or mange is going to get the numbers down.
 
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