Would you be interested in a custom mountain long range rifle?

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HellsCanyon

HellsCanyon

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For anyone who thinks they are going to get a 1/4 MOA rifle in .30 caliber don't hold your breath. That is a outside to outside edge group of .550, which is a clover leaf jagged hole. There are not many rifles in the world in .30 caliber with the best of shooters who can do that. Maybe one five shot group here and there by the best, but not repeatedly. For a company to even guarantee 1/2 MOA is asking for trouble, as the company may get 1/2 MOA, but send that out the door to a customer who can't shoot well, they will eventually want their money back.

If building a long range gun, I would be more interested in how the load work up performs at 800 or 1000 yards. Some guns will shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 and 2 MOA at 1000. If the gun is only tested for MOA at 100, you wont know what it does at long range to make sure the bullet performs the same.

Not knocking Mike and his plan, but the numbers referenced I have shot hundreds of 210 bergers at dozens of seating depths with about four different powders and the results for me have shown poor stability after 3100 fps. That is not to say it can't be done, just my personal shooting data. I shoot a custom .300 Jarrett which is a solid gun / cartridge combo and they performed best at about 3025 to 3050 with wide variances after 3100.

I hope they get what they are shooting for the newer materials they will be trying.
Its interesting to hear that. The results have been similar at 100 yards for our load data. However they are actually grouping better at distance (past 300) for us than they are at 100. At those speeds those bullets are taking a bit longer to stabilize than one would expect. While we have thrown 3/4MOA groups at 100 yards, but that same gun will hold .5 MOA or better at 600. The few 300 ultras Al built had us a bit confused testing at 100 yards, finally started shooting paper at distance (we usually shoot all steel) to see how they were performing. I hope these new barrels will be up for the challenge and our expectations! If indeed we can't get that 1/2MOA accuracy at our intended speeds, we'll just have to be satisfied with a little slower. Indeed I will be keeping you updated... ;)

Mike
 

RosinBag

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I hope you get what you are shooting for as it would be a premium long range killer at those speeds coupled with the high b/c Bergers. I would think the newer materials should help you out. Good luck all around with it.
 
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HellsCanyon

HellsCanyon

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I hope you get what you are shooting for as it would be a premium long range killer at those speeds coupled with the high b/c Bergers. I would think the newer materials should help you out. Good luck all around with it.
Copy that thanks!

Mike
 

wk93

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By the sounds of it, the rifles will be really nice. You guys should post pictures of them when they are built.
 
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HellsCanyon

HellsCanyon

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We will be writing up a full review and article detailing the rifles and calibers offered. I'm extremely anxious to get these built. Just waiting on actions and barrels right now. Hopefully we will have everything put together by October sometime but that is dependant on factors that oftentimes change in the custom industry unfortunately....

Mike
 

7mag.

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So do you do other custom work too? I have a Rem 700 in 8mm. Mag. that I was considering using the action to have a light weight, carbon barreled mountain rifle built. Is that something you would take on?
 
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HellsCanyon

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Sending you a pm here shortly... we will not be doing you typical gunSmith work though we are talking about doing similar work to what you're interested in.

Mike
 

Brandon Pattison

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I have a M70 CRF SS in 300 RUM that shoots horribly. I have feeding issues and accuracy issues. Do you work on Winchesters? I have a Nightforce on it with Badger rings and base. The stock is factory. Talk to me.
 
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HellsCanyon

HellsCanyon

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I have a M70 CRF SS in 300 RUM that shoots horribly. I have feeding issues and accuracy issues. Do you work on Winchesters? I have a Nightforce on it with Badger rings and base. The stock is factory. Talk to me.
Franklin,
I think that we might be able to build you something off of your action and setup possibly. There needs to be something understood however and I'll try to communicate this effectively. That last thing HCA wants to turn into is a gunsmith shop. We are trying to become a gun maker and this unfortunately means turning away some types of business (not yours! this is mainly said for others possibly reading this post).

We are going to have a high standard of accuracy for rifles we work on, and this dictates a minimum amount of work to the rifle depending on how that rifle currently shoots, and what components you have to work with. There could be any number of things that are causing your poor accuracy out of your rifle. At the very least to make it worth both our while, we would like to see a new barrel, verified proper stock/barrel clearance, a quality pillar bedding job, and possibly true up your action. However we can take it as far as you like depending on how much your budget is and what your goals for the rifle are.

I believe the only factory actions we will even consider working on right now (as we are trying to get our own rifle combination line up and running) are the Rem 700's, Savage 10, 110, and the Win M70. If you would like more information send me a PM and we can work out the details! Thank you!

Mike
 
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fire arrow

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For anyone who thinks they are going to get a 1/4 MOA rifle in .30 caliber don't hold your breath. That is a outside to outside edge group of .550, which is a clover leaf jagged hole. There are not many rifles in the world in .30 caliber with the best of shooters who can do that. Maybe one five shot group here and there by the best, but not repeatedly. For a company to even guarantee 1/2 MOA is asking for trouble, as the company may get 1/2 MOA, but send that out the door to a customer who can't shoot well, they will eventually want their money back.

If building a long range gun, I would be more interested in how the load work up performs at 800 or 1000 yards. Some guns will shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 and 2 MOA at 1000. If the gun is only tested for MOA at 100, you wont know what it does at long range to make sure the bullet performs the same.

Not knocking Mike and his plan, but the numbers referenced I have shot hundreds of 210 bergers at dozens of seating depths with about four different powders and the results for me have shown poor stability after 3100 fps. That is not to say it can't be done, just my personal shooting data. I shoot a custom .300 Jarrett which is a solid gun / cartridge combo and they performed best at about 3025 to 3050 with wide variances after 3100.

I hope they get what they are shooting for the newer materials they will be trying.
Will throw in a +1 for larger burgers above 3000 fps. I shoot 190's, and my groups open up when I tried pushing them to reach 3000. Gave up around 270 fps for a better grouping load. But let me throw this in as well. I am not shooting 700+ yards, yet, where the extra speed is needed for drop, and KE for lethal kill shots.

Would love to get my hands on a 6.5x284. If you guys are going to use a 0.5 MOA selling point, send then validation shots with the rifle, and the load info. I know that's ALOT of extra work, but it will release you from, "hay dis gun not be shoot'en straight". Wish you guys the best of luck, and hope I can get a chance to shoot your rifles one day.

By the way what barrel are you going with?
 

jordan

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Just saw this, good luck HC. Nice to see a fellow WA guy getting in the market. By the way I'll test them for free in the WA back country :)
 
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HellsCanyon

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Will throw in a +1 for larger burgers above 3000 fps. I shoot 190's, and my groups open up when I tried pushing them to reach 3000. Gave up around 270 fps for a better grouping load. But let me throw this in as well. I am not shooting 700+ yards, yet, where the extra speed is needed for drop, and KE for lethal kill shots.

Would love to get my hands on a 6.5x284. If you guys are going to use a 0.5 MOA selling point, send then validation shots with the rifle, and the load info. I know that's ALOT of extra work, but it will release you from, "hay dis gun not be shoot'en straight". Wish you guys the best of luck, and hope I can get a chance to shoot your rifles one day.

By the way what barrel are you going with?
Test targets and load data will definitely be sent with each rifle... We'll see what we can't get done with those berger's. I hope you're able to shoot 'em as well!

Right now barrels are all we're waiting on... Getting them through Rock Creek but may be going with Broughton if Rock can't keep us on a good regular schedule.

Jordan, I'm sure you would! ;) If we get some built and you're around in the future it'd be no problem to send an invite to do some shooting!

Mike
 
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HellsCanyon

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do you have pics
Not at this point in time. Still waiting on barrels but I can tell you that with a heavy 26" barrel and 24 oz stock they should be coming in right around 7.5 lbs without scope n rings. Not terribly lightweight but they are going to be able to handle high heat situations of competition as well as hunting. Hoping to have they built by Jan!

Mike
 

wk93

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Not at this point in time. Still waiting on barrels but I can tell you that with a heavy 26" barrel and 24 oz stock they should be coming in right around 7.5 lbs without scope n rings. Not terribly lightweight but they are going to be able to handle high heat situations of competition as well as hunting. Hoping to have they built by Jan!

Mike
I'm still really excited to see these builds!
 
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HellsCanyon

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Us too! We have our barrel cores, just need to wrap them and then spin 'em onto a few actions! ;) should be ready to roll sometime in January for load development!

Mike
 

loner

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Not at this point in time. Still waiting on barrels but I can tell you that with a heavy 26" barrel and 24 oz stock they should be coming in right around 7.5 lbs without scope n rings. Not terribly lightweight but they are going to be able to handle high heat situations of competition as well as hunting. Hoping to have they built by Jan!

Mike
If you are building a "custom mountain long range rifle" why would it need to handle high heat situations of competition also?
To me a mountain rifle will have a lighter barrel on it and should be abile to shoot a three shot group under a 1/2 moa.
In my experience most animals are taken with the frist shot and after this most are gone if missed,so no need for the heavy contour.
So why do I see more and more guys lugging that big pipe into the high country?
Just wondering if I'm missing something here???

Loner
 
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HellsCanyon

HellsCanyon

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If you are building a "custom mountain long range rifle" why would it need to handle high heat situations of competition also?
To me a mountain rifle will have a lighter barrel on it and should be abile to shoot a three shot group under a 1/2 moa.
In my experience most animals are taken with the frist shot and after this most are gone if missed,so no need for the heavy contour.
So why do I see more and more guys lugging that big pipe into the high country?
Just wondering if I'm missing something here???

Loner
Not missing anything Loner and you do make a good point. The reasoning behing having a heavy carbon barrel is increased stiffness and accuracy at minimum weight gains... Sure we can build 1/2 MOA rifles on a lightweight sporter contour, and they will work great for their intended purpose of that 3 shot group, and they'll do it with consistent cold bore groups. However they aren't very much fun to practice with. Without exception, every new person I've taken shooting, once they lay down and smack that steel/rock/rockchuck at 600+ yards, wants to keep shooting. NO ONE wants to quit after 3-5 shots. Not only are you going to have an inherently stiffer (thus more accurate) barrel with a heavy carbon barrel, you do it at minimum weight gains, and still have a rifle that you can take to the field and burn up a lot of rounds without worrying about it walking on you. This will make practice sessions more enjoyable and thus will make you a better shooter.

I know that I would hate to spend $3500 on a rifle only to be able to fire it at the range a few times and have to let it cool down between every 6-8 shot string.

I will also say that we will have the option of going even lighter with out carbon tapers in the future, but that is not something we're doing at this time.

Mike
 

30-338mag

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Mike carbon wrap barrel been around long time. I'd sure have hard time thinking about light rifle that look like heavy rifle and I'm not sure that future buyer would be interesting in shooting volume groups. I know my wife wasn't with her Forbes rifle all she wanted was light rifle to carry and it was pretty close to what Loner mentioned.

I know Gunwerks and few others using Carbon wrap barrels and I'm not saying their bad. Well good luck
 
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HellsCanyon

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Almost every 'long range hunter' that I know enjoys going to the range or hills and sending a LOT of rounds down range. The fact that it takes so much work to setup steel at long ranges makes it worthwhile to send more than a few rounds down range. These rifles are not going to be meant for those that take their rifle to the range and confirms their zero and sends a few shots at distance to see if they are close. These rifles are meant for shooters that will be confirming data at all distances possible and under as many conditions as possible to ensure that they can make that first round hit in the field. By going with a carbon wrapped barrel you can get all the benefits of a heavy barrel without the weight penalties.

I know what kind of rifle I want to hunt/pack with and something with a sporter contour just isn't going to cut it for me. If someone is of that mindset, they would honestly be better off buying a factory Tikka or Savage, working up some sub MOA handloads, buy an appropriate optics system and learning how to shoot that combination. Not very many people want to spend $3K+ for a gun they'll only shoot 50-100 rounds through a year.

We're getting pretty close to having a rifle or two being put together...

Mike
 
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