Wyoming non res wilderness hunting

Two Roads

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
187
More of the I want what you got crowd bitching and moaning. I suppose your “rights” will eventually come down to MY private land because “you don’t hunt it and somebody should and that somebody should be me”. I remember your ilk from the playground as a kid.

You have the option to move to WY and then, where would you stand?
 

Wrench

WKR
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
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5,645
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WA
Here's the deal, Wyoming could lose the wilderness issue in court and still win.

How you ask?

Simple. Wyoming would realize thst they were forced into the move and simply change the tag structure. Move the wilderness to separate units and have higher prices (exorbitant) on the wilderness units and offer reduced fee tags for guide / outfitted hunts. This is done in other areas without the specific geographical limitations, but wouldn't be difficult to create.

What we would all see is 14 mega rich people be able to hunt the wilderness alone.....but with that level of wealth, would they?

I don't like the fact that I can't hunt the wilderness in Wyoming, but I sure like everything else about them......except their choice in politicians.
 

Kodiak

FNG
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
60
Location
NW WYO
I agree with @Wrench, Would nonresidents rather hunt the wilderness or have the 90/10 rule implemented?

Nothing is preventing them from having both and increasing the tag fees. People would pay them, it will just cut out the DIY hunter financially.
As it sits today Wyoming is one of the better states for opportunity at a giant buck or bull for DIY nonres hunter.

Don’t like the game, don’t play.
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
302
I agree with @Wrench, Would nonresidents rather hunt the wilderness or have the 90/10 rule implemented?

Nothing is preventing them from having both and increasing the tag fees. People would pay them, it will just cut out the DIY hunter financially.
As it sits today Wyoming is one of the better states for opportunity at a giant buck or bull for DIY nonres hunter.

Don’t like the game, don’t play.
This.
I'll take whatever wyoming gives me.
They hold all the cards and get to set the rules. Its up to you if you want to play or not.
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
70
@307 ”All states openly discriminate against non residents and they don't even need to defend it.”

You are correct. But to deny hunters access based on lack of safety and ability to follow rules is ludicrous. They are setting a standard that is unequally applied to any other situation, and restricts FEDERAL tax-payers from the land they own…. Their reasoning doesnt stand and is obvious by the non-res guide law which limits residents to 2 people a year to hunt with. That right there destroys all their arguments - they are not true guides - so the rule and safety arguement is gone. Being uncompensated, why the 2 person limit? Purely restricting access. Has nothing to do with safety or following rules. Its blatant government overreach to help out the locals and keep the CA idiots out of the wilderness (only while hunting). Plenty of people arent qualified to EVER step foot in a wilderness but Ill be damned if any American government denies me access while simultaneously taking my money…. To keep their argument alive, ALL activities in the wilderness would have to be guided for just non-residents. Also a silly argument but at least holds a standard. Ive hunted the MT backcountry on the yellowstone border and find it funny that if it were WY it would be illegal….

Too bad they stopped at the WY supreme court. Federal court would see it much differently.
I believe you are incorrect in saying WY residents implemented the WA rule to keep NR out… it was WYOGA that pushed for it. It would be my opinion that Most resident hunters don’t care and may even find the rule unfair to NR. I would also dare to say Most resident hunters don’t access WA, but I could be wrong…
 
OP
gigandet642016
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
74
I agree with @Wrench, Would nonresidents rather hunt the wilderness or have the 90/10 rule implemented?

Nothing is preventing them from having both and increasing the tag fees. People would pay them, it will just cut out the DIY hunter financially.
As it sits today Wyoming is one of the better states for opportunity at a giant buck or bull for DIY nonres hunter.

Don’t like the game, don’t play.
i just feel it is weird that every other state in the lower 48 does not have this rule. but wyoming residents can go hunt colorado or montana or idaho wilderness whenever they want to. if it is a state funded wilderness then whatever, but if it receives federal funding i think it should be open to all.
 

CorbLand

WKR
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
6,698
i just feel it is weird that every other state in the lower 48 does not have this rule. but wyoming residents can go hunt colorado or montana or idaho wilderness whenever they want to. if it is a state funded wilderness then whatever, but if it receives federal funding i think it should be open to all.
The problem you run into here is that it is open to all. You can go there anytime you want but you cant hunt it. The land is managed by the Federal Government and the animals are managed by the State Government.
 

Bighorner

WKR
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
562
Wilderness is one of the most precious forms of public land. It still has a touch of wild in a sea of fifth wheels and side by side. It's not a magic bullet to kill animals. The reality is the animals live on both side of the line. If you can't get it done on one side crossing a man made line probably won't help. If you can support the idea of getting rid of wilderness areas feel free to stay away from them!
 
OP
gigandet642016
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
74
Wilderness is one of the most precious forms of public land. It still has a touch of wild in a sea of fifth wheels and side by side. It's not a magic bullet to kill animals. The reality is the animals live on both side of the line. If you can't get it done on one side crossing a man made line probably won't help. If you can support the idea of getting rid of wilderness areas feel free to stay away from them!
nobody is saying get rid of them, i just dont see why every other state non res can hunt them but wyoming is the only one that does not allow it. it crosses out a lot of units that are not worth looking at now since the majority is wilderness area/
 
OP
gigandet642016
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
74
The problem you run into here is that it is open to all. You can go there anytime you want but you cant hunt it. The land is managed by the Federal Government and the animals are managed by the State Government.
open to all hunters** i should say.
 

Will_m

WKR
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
944
i just feel it is weird that every other state in the lower 48 does not have this rule. but wyoming residents can go hunt colorado or montana or idaho wilderness whenever they want to. if it is a state funded wilderness then whatever, but if it receives federal funding i think it should be open to all.
This is an interesting take. Sounds like a reciprocity agreement is in store for wilderness areas. That is, nonresidents from state a can hunt wilderness areas in state b only if their home states allows state b residents to hunt wilderness areas in state a.
Got ourselves a nonresident rights war with that one.
Also to everybody making this out to be a case of bitching about wanting what others have and that the hunting is no better in wilderness areas: some people genuinely enjoy hunting federally designated wilderness for no other reason than it is federally designated wilderness. I know I do.
 

bsnedeker

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May 17, 2018
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MT
This is an interesting take. Sounds like a reciprocity agreement is in store for wilderness areas. That is, nonresidents from state a can hunt wilderness areas in state b only if their home states allows state b residents to hunt wilderness areas in state a.
Got ourselves a nonresident rights war with that one.
Also to everybody making this out to be a case of bitching about wanting what others have and that the hunting is no better in wilderness areas: some people genuinely enjoy hunting federally designated wilderness for no other reason than it is federally designated wilderness. I know I do.
OOOOH, I like that idea! WY residents can't hunt wilderness in any other state! Clearly the wilderness in WY is unique among all western states based on their justification for this rule. That must mean that WY residents don't have the knowledge or expertise to safely navigate in non-WY wilderness since they are so fundamentally different. For their own safety we should not allow them to hunt wilderness in our states.
 
Joined
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AK
I believe you are incorrect in saying WY residents implemented the WA rule to keep NR out… it was WYOGA that pushed for it. It would be my opinion that Most resident hunters don’t care and may even find the rule unfair to NR. I would also dare to say Most resident hunters don’t access WA, but I could be wrong…
It's pretty childist how people on here are always attacking the residents of both WY and AK when it comes to the WA rule in WY and must be guided rule in AK. These laws are in place in each state strictly because of their respective guide lobbies. The residents of AK are mostly against or impartial to the laws and I'd assume WY is the same.

There is something that everyone that's complaining can do about it. Look at the financial statements of the organizations you give money to and see where the money is going (SCI and WSF to name a couple). Ask them how donations of your money to guide lobby organizations like the WYOGA and AKPHA are helping the average hunter? How are these donations "keeping sheep on the mountain"? Once you do that, then feel free to complain.
 
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bsnedeker

WKR
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It's pretty childist how people on here are always attacking the residents of both WY and AK when it comes to the WA rule in WY and must be guided rule in AK. These laws are in place in each state strictly because of their respective guide lobbies. The residents of AK are mostly against or impartial to the laws and I'd assume WY is the same.

There is something that everyone that's complaining can do about it. Look at the financial statements of the organizations you give money to and see where the money is going (SCI and WSF to name a couple). Ask them how donations of your money to guide lobby organizations like the WYOGA and AKPHA are helping the average hunter? How are these donations "keeping sheep on the mountain"? Once you do that, then feel free to complain.
I agree with you that it is not the residents pushing these rules, it's guides.

That said, the residents of WY and AK certainly aren't fighting against these laws. Your state legislatures don't give a damn what NR's think so the only way these things are ever going to change is if the residents fight against them. There really is no upside to residents fighting to change these laws at this time so they will likely never change.

I think fair is fair...if WY and AK want to push guides on us, we should push guides on them. I'm willing to bet if that happened these rules would be out the window in a VERY short period of time.

It's never going to happen, but a man can dream! I desperately want to hunt a grizz someday, but I can't afford 20-30K on a hunt.
 
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That said, the residents of WY and AK certainly aren't fighting against these laws. Your state legislatures don't give a damn what NR's think so the only way these things are ever going to change is if the residents fight against them. There really is no upside to residents fighting to change these laws at this time so they will likely never change.

I think fair is fair...if WY and AK want to push guides on us, we should push guides on them. I'm willing to bet if that happened these rules would be out the window in a VERY short period of time.
You are simply wrong. The residents are so fed up that they started their own group to finally stand up to the guide lobby - Resident Hunters of Alaska (RHAK). Feel free to visit the website and reach out to the president who is a forum member if you wish to learn more. Game laws (including the must be guided rule) are not made at the legislative level. They are made at the BOG level. Legislatures ultimately approve BOG members which are nominated by the Governor. To no-one's surprise, it seems the # of former guides which favor commercial interest on the BOG seem to always out number members that are in support of public interest. RHAK does have a lobbyist in Juneau but they are WAY out funded by an extremely powerful APHA lobby which receives $$$ from all the major hunting orgs. See my last post. Feel free to donate to the cause. I've said it over and over on this forum that a simple questions at every political debate should have a question: "Will you nominate BOG and BOF members that favor commercial interests or personal use and sport interest?"

Be careful what you wish for. The must be guided laws in Alaska have had a VERY negative impact on the resident hunting experience - which is ultimately why RHAK was started. They essentially have free reign on how many hunters they can jam into the field in most units in AK.

I will not speak for WY as I don't know anything about their process. But I won't play they "if I can't have it noone can game". That's a dark road where, I promise you, the general public will ultimately get the shaft. Resident or not.
 

bsnedeker

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You are simply wrong. The residents are so fed up that they started their own group to finally stand up to the guide lobby - Resident Hunters of Alaska (RHAK). Feel free to visit the website and reach out to the president who is a forum member if you wish to learn more. Game laws (including the must be guided rule) are not made at the legislative level. They are made at the BOG level. Legislatures ultimately approve BOG members which are nominated by the Governor. To no-one's surprise, it seems the # of former guides which favor commercial interest on the BOG seem to always out number members that are in support of public interest. RHAK does have a lobbyist in Juneau but they are WAY out funded by an extremely powerful APHA lobby which receives $$$ from all the major hunting orgs. See my last post. Feel free to donate to the cause. I've said it over and over on this forum that a simple questions at every political debate should have a question: "Will you nominate BOG and BOF members that favor commercial interests or personal use and sport interest?"

Be careful what you wish for. The must be guided laws in Alaska have had a VERY negative impact on the resident hunting experience. They essentially have free reign on how many hunters they can jam into the field in most units in AK.

I will not speak for WY as I don't know anything about their process. But I won't play they "if I can't have it noone can game". That's a dark road where, I promise you, the general public will ultimately get the shaft. Resident or not.
That's good to know man, I guess I was making assumptions based on my overall pessimism! I'll look into that org. and donate to the cause if possible.

EDIT: So I checked out the RHAK website and, maybe I'm missing it, but I'm not seeing anything about them wanting to eliminate the guide requirement. It seems they just want to a tighter limit on the number of guided hunters in the field. Basically they just want fewer NR's overall. I'll admit I didn't go over the entire website but based on this page I'm not seeing anything about getting rid of the guide requirement: https://www.residenthuntersofalaska.org/gcp.
 
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Kodiak

FNG
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Feb 8, 2016
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60
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NW WYO
OOOOH, I like that idea! WY residents can't hunt wilderness in any other state! Clearly the wilderness in WY is unique among all western states based on their justification for this rule. That must mean that WY residents don't have the knowledge or expertise to safely navigate in non-WY wilderness since they are so fundamentally different. For their own safety we should not allow them to hunt wilderness in our states.
Seems like a bit of a slippery slope. What if Wyoming required reciprocity for state tag allocations? Your state doesn't offer 20% nonresident elk tags, you don't get an elk tag. Your state doesn't have nonresident sheep or moose or bison tags, No sheep moose or Bison hunt for you. Boom, no more out state hunting in Wyoming. because no other state offers as high of Nonresident tag allocations as Wyoming with as many species.

As I said before, Wyoming is still one of the best states for opportunity hunts in the US. Even with the Wilderness law a nonres, DIY hunter can get after it and have the opportunity to harvest very high quality animals. And for those that choose, you can hire a guide and hunt where ever.

There are plenty of other states to apply in if WY is being so crule to Non resident hunters.

Don't Like the Game, Don't Play,
 
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