Wyoming price increase

[squeekieslayer]

I am not under the belief that we should split tags for residents in general areas. THat is fine the way it is in my opinion... just by the 20 dollar archery permit. I do feel though that the idea of splitting the tags for archery/rifle in limited quota areas would be a good way to not only allow more people to hunt a particular areas with roughly the same amount of impact on the environment and, in turn, bring in more revenue. You dont need to "double" it, but a good percentage jump would be great. not to mention, if you considered them different draws and could allow for the separate applications.... ie not just first thee choices, actually let them pay twice as much... just the interest on the increase pre-draw money would be significant... and you would still be refunding most of it anyway, but every little bit helps.

there are obviously a lot of issues to work out with an idea like this... some areas are general for archery and early rifle and their appeal comes with late season tags and things like that. and you would have to figure out what percentage of type 1 hunters do both arcehry and gun... if it was 100% it makes this easy, but it isnt. FOr example, if only 50% of people who primarily draw a tag to rifle hunt use a bow, then splitting that in two and giving it all to archery would DOUBLE the amount of hunters in the archery season. Thus harvest and environmental impact would go way up. So there would be a lot of work that had to go into it... but i think it is a great start.

What about a muzzle loader only tag that you can draw? I know of one area in SW wyoming for antelope that is muzzy only and i put it 3rd choice for years and seemed to always draw it as a back up.

joe

The only way that revenue is doubled by adding an archery only tag is if a person can buy both the general archery, and the general rifle once archery closes. Personally i would buy both, but that's because I believe in the system, even with bureaucratic nonsense that wastes money.

I don't mind the type 9 model that plays out in the bighorns already. First two weeks of September are special season, second two it opens up for a general hunt as well as the special tags. We would see the rifle cow tags get sold quicker to the Archery hunters who don't get their bull either, at least that is what I saw in the Bighorns.

The biggest reason a price increase wasn't going to work is because people would have been trying to cash in this year on their preference points. Threads have been posted on just about every forum out there talking about "cashing in" on Wyoming this year because of it. Get out of the system before it got too expensive.

Coming up with some new tags is a good thing. I.E. Whether I hunt a wolf or not, I would buy the tag. I currently don't live in the trophy zone, so why should I buy it. Especially when a wolf was killed less than 3 miles as the crow flies from my house?

White Tail only tag, I would buy one. They aren't a heavy population here, yet. It's one or the other as it stands now, but again if there is a general season on them I will have a tag in my pocket.

Come up with a tag for coyotes, and you can see where I am going.

 

[squeekieslayer]

I guess it simply comes down to this.... To TRULY protect wyoming hunting from becoming a "rich only" sport.... You have to get money into the state agencies that protect that. If you don't, private ownership and leasing will take over and you will REALLY have a rich only situation.

They need to increase revenue to protect huntings future... to fight it because you like the way it is, is to take a step backwards.

Joe

 

[crumy]

I obviously agree with you sreekers since that is what I am proposing. And as stated above, it would allow hunter to maybe draw an archery tag in 22 but only get a general for rifle. Or if he was living right e could draw an archery in 22 and a rifle in the red desert area. I also like the idea you brought up for a permit for predator hunting. I too would buy one for those "just in case" moments.

Squeekiesslayer, thanks for the kind words. I also think this is one of the better forums. There area few out there that I don't even go to anymore because there is a lot of urinary olympics going on.

 

[crumy]

I didin't see the other posts as they must have happened while I was typing. The numbers I was doing were only on limited areas. It did not include general areas like area 10 for example. But I would be willing to by a general archery and a general rifle if I didn't draw a limited area. This would increase the % of revenue that my data modeling depicted. But I do see your point slayer. they are already collecting 20 for the permit if you didn't draw the limited tag. Either way would work I believe. Too bad we aren't the decision makers. I think a lot of stuff could be resolved over a beer without all the red tape.

 

[crumy]

Totally agree about your comment about private ownership. We need to ensure we keep public access open.

I guess it simply comes down to this.... To TRULY protect wyoming hunting from becoming a "rich only" sport.... You have to get money into the state agencies that protect that. If you don't, private ownership and leasing will take over and you will REALLY have a rich only situation.

They need to increase revenue to protect huntings future... to fight it because you like the way it is, is to take a step backwards.

Joe

 

[squeekieslayer]

Here in montana it is a bit different than wyoming... and I think it works great. For example, my fiance drew the archery only tag in the missourri breaks last year (with about 98% draw odds.) It was an amazing hunt, we got on a lot of elk, saw a ton more, but were unable to connect. This tag allowed her to get her first hunt in a area that was some of the best elk hunting in the world.... and she is flat out addicted to elk hunting now. The beauty of this tag??? it was basically 100% odds, she could STILL BOWHUNT ANY OTHER GENERAL AREA IN THE STATE, and she DO NOT lose her ability to hunt the general state wide rifle season.

There are 50 rifle tags for this area.... less than .5% draw odds for rifle. Think of how much money the state would be missing out on without splitting it like this. Another thing I like is that tags like these cause people to not be able to accumulate points (because they lose them when they draw) and those of us that are willing to hang on and avoid instant gratification and save points have better odds because of it. win-win

Other things that I like that the do here... 1) THere are MANY areas open for general archery but are limited for rifle 2) Wilderness early (september) rifle elk seasons 3) Pay for wolf tag, everywhere 4) areas that are general for does/fawns or one species of deer, yet limited for buck or the other species... thus it is a great tag to draw for trophy potential, but doesnt lock the average meat hunter out of public land. 5) two day youth only hunt for the entire state BEFORE the general season starts. 6) Youth only limited quota tags 7) combo licenses that cont more, but likely cause a lot of deer hunters to pay a little more to get a bird license.... that they may never use and would not have purchased separately. Much easier to get a kid or newbie started off with a spark.

There are a few things that I like about wyomings system better... But overall I feel that Montana is trying to MAXIMIZE income while giving as much opportunity to hunters. Yes the OBVIOULSY messed up and got too greedy with the NR combo prices, but hey, you cant fault them for trying.

The fact is this, all of the work done now will fade away if not nurtured. Without more income, we lose access, without access, it is harder to hunt. when it is harder to hunt, less kids get into it..... if we lose the new gen of hunters, none of this will matter in the future anyway.

Joe

 

[tstowater]

Something to consider: most of the western states that have increased their tags, unless the populations truly warranted the increase, have ended up hurting the populations. In a relatively short time, the trophy quality will decline and some of the nonresidents (especially the ones looking for trophy animals) will reconsider whether they are going to continue to reward a state with money for a perceived quality problem. Increasing tags may provide a short run solution to a longer term problem. I'm guessing some of the outfitter would love for there to be more tags for their clients. Something else to consider. Not everyone is a DIY and I'm guessing the guided hunters generally are going to have a higher success rate. As to tags for coyotes, I see that as something not to touch with a 10 foot pole. The ranchers will be pissed to put it mildly and I would guess they would resist with all their efforts. IMHO.

 

[squeekieslayer]

I think the difference between a blind increase in tag numbers and what crumy proposes is that the only increase in tags would be the addition of archery only tags. In its simplest form, the math goes something like this.... right now 1 hunter, 1 tag sold, 2 seasons (archery and rifle). If there are 20 guys with general tags, that is 20 guys in the area during archery season with the chance to take game, and 20 guys in the rifle season with a chance to take game. If changed, 2 hunters, 2 tags sold, 2 seasons. If they are split, there are still only 20 guys in there for archery and 20 for rifle, but you sold twice as many tags. In basic terms, it would have the same impact. Yes it would limit the tag vs current situation, but you have to give a little to grow.



OBVIOUSLY there would be more impact than that.... the guys that only use one type or another with the current system makes my example above too simple. But you get the idea. Not to mention the fact that guys sometimes pass bulls, or are less vigorous in arcehry season when they know they have rifle to fall back on... where with the new season you would change that.

Joe

Something to consider: most of the western states that have increased their tags, unless the populations truly warranted the increase, have ended up hurting the populations. In a relatively short time, the trophy quality will decline and some of the nonresidents (especially the ones looking for trophy animals) will reconsider whether they are going to continue to reward a state with money for a perceived quality problem. Increasing tags may provide a short run solution to a longer term problem. I'm guessing some of the outfitter would love for there to be more tags for their clients. Something else to consider. Not everyone is a DIY and I'm guessing the guided hunters generally are going to have a higher success rate. As to tags for coyotes, I see that as something not to touch with a 10 foot pole. The ranchers will be pissed to put it mildly and I would guess they would resist with all their efforts. IMHO.