Wyoming special draw increase ...

[Maverick1]

I have tried the last 2 years and keep getting pushed back from point creep.

Yup, same here. Except it took me 8 years to burn mine....and I had max points. (My choice, as I was applying for a specific unit that takes max points as a NR - I could have burned them earlier in a number of different units much earlier. Just fortunate!)

 

[Rob5589]

I'm not taking a position on the increased cost, but look at what some folks pay to go watch a Super Bowl. If you wanna play, you gotta pay.

Your example would be relevant if there was a significant price difference between a ticket for residents vs non residents where the game was held.

 

[LostArra]

No one has to apply for the Special to get an elk tag.

 

[realunlucky]

No one has to apply for the Special to get an elk tag.

Every supporter golly this still be so awesome I can afford it but lots of guys can't so now I'll just paid more and get "MY" tag. Peasants stop crying no is making you apply.

This is the exact opposite of how the conservation model is supposed to work.

 

[LostArra]

Every supporter golly this still be so awesome I can afford it but lots of guys can't so now I'll just paid more and get "MY" tag. Peasants stop crying no is making you apply.

This is the exact opposite of how the conversation model is supposed to work.


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Huh?

I've never applied for a Special and never will. I hunt elk in Wyoming on a regular basis but antlers are not a requirement for me.
How this fits your "conversation model" is a mystery to me.

The Special along with Preference points are usually sucker bets. At these prices it's just becoming more obvious. $1200 antelope???

 

[fatlander]

Huh?

I've never applied for a Special and never will. I hunt elk in Wyoming on a regular basis but antlers are not a requirement for me.
How this fits your "conversation model" is a mystery to me.

The Special along with Preference points are usually sucker bets. At these prices it's just becoming more obvious. $1200 antelope???

It doesn’t fit the North American model of wildlife conservation because access to animals owned by the public isn’t supposed to be based on your socioeconomic status. Landowner tags are already there for the well off.

The problem here is going to be a significant increase in point creep in the regular draws. So the folks with money get better draw odds while those without suffer. If someone was to start buying points right now for elk in Wyoming, they may never catch the creep for a general tag. At a minimum it’ll take 8-10 years.

I can afford and will pay the increase. I like hunting elk. The point schemes are all just that, schemes. It’s a money racket, like most other things with government involvement. Point sales and the fleeting dream of ever drawing a tag will keep the ballooned budget afloat.


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[realunlucky]

The idea that if you spend more money your more valuable piece of conservation efforts, is a falsehood we need to stomp out now before hunting here follows the European model.

When the average hunter feels they are no longer valued they will stop contributing and no amount of money will be able to replace that.

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[LostArra]

The Special draw was an elitist gimmick before the price increase.

It doesn’t fit the North American model of wildlife conservation because access to animals owned by the public isn’t supposed to be based on your socioeconomic status. Landowner tags are already there for the well off.

"Opportunity for all to hunt and fish" has been lost or at least "redefined" long ago. It does not say we can all hunt for every species where ever we want.

The North American Model also calls for government agencies to manage wildlife and regulate hunting and fishing. No mention on how to fund these agencies and a tax on the general population isn't going to happen except in Missouri so the funding becomes licenses. It's political suicide to raise money on resident hunting licenses so the non-residents pay a big portion of the bills.

The problem here is going to be a significant increase in point creep in the regular draws. So the folks with money get better draw odds while those without suffer. If someone was to start buying points right now for elk in Wyoming, they may never catch the creep for a general tag. At a minimum it’ll take 8-10 years.

My original point is that to hunt elk currently you do not have to apply for a Special draw or buy any preference points or wait 8-10 years.

The idea that if you spend more money your more valuable piece of conservation efforts, is a falsehood we need to stomp out now before hunting here follows the European model.

For some species, the current American model is already a poorly disguised version of the European model.

When the average hunter feels they are no longer valued they will stop contributing and no amount of money will be able to replace that.

What is an average hunter? Does an "average hunter" even leave their home state to hunt?
I don't believe the average hunter regularly contributes anything other than resident license fees and some Pittman Robertson money on ammo or arrows.

I wish Wyoming would expand the Super Tag raffle. Equal opportunity for all at a modest price.

 

[Indian Summer]

Move
Have resident prices and not have to draw a general tag.
Victims, Victims everywhere.

Depending on the question that’s a good answer lots of times. You may have read some of my posts that support preserving what residents have. But in this case I think it’s inappropriate.

And careful what you wish for. You won’t be giggling when you realize that all this accomplishes is trading the average non res hunters for ones with money to burn. In other words it’s just another step toward making elk hunting a rich man’s game. They’ll still sell the same number of licenses. Just to some different people. The people that most residents would rather not see move there.

Odds in the special drawing for general licenses have always been better. So in my opinion it works so don’t fix it.

And does WY F&G really care about our draw odds? I doubt it. Do they care about point creep? Maybe a little because it can mean less income from selling preference points as people give up on the system, burn their points and walk away. But jacking the price of a special license doesn’t help that problem either. It only does one thing: Raise their income from the sale of the same number of licenses. Am I complaining? Maybe a bit BUT I’m also understanding of the fact that every business has the right to sell a product for whatever the market will bear. Especially when the product is limited in quantity and their operating cost always go up. How else can they increase revenue? Now much we can do about it.

But telling people to move there is like telling them to move to Saudi Arabia because they said price of gas sucks.

 

[Rob5589]

"It's political suicide to raise money on resident hunting licenses so the non-residents pay a big portion of the bills"

This pretty much sums it up. The only "vote" a non resident has is to choose to not participate in hunting out of state. But clearly the prices haven't gotten there yet.

 

[wapitibob]

It doesn’t fit the North American model of wildlife conservation because access to animals owned by the public isn’t supposed to be based on your socioeconomic status. Landowner tags are already there for the well off.

WY has had special and regular since the nr draw started and nobody gave a darn until the price of a special tag hit their limit.

 

[rratzlaff1490]

So is this actually happening or a rumor?

 

[wind gypsy]

Task force is taking public comments now about increasing the special draw allocation from the current 40% to 50%. I'd encourage people to write in with comments.

Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce - Public Input

Submit comments for the Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce below. Public comment provided to the taskforce for consideration prior to each meeting can be found on the "Meeting Materials" page. Comments received by 5 p.m. MST on November 7, 2022 will be provided to the Taskforce for the November 18, 2022

sites.google.com

 

[S.Clancy]

I’d bet the house that all of you justifying this topic saying “just make more money, move, I’m a blue collar worker, I’ll always hunt elk, blah blah” have a breaking point. Let’s see the guy in a 15 year old Subaru working at the mill go elk hunt next year on a $25k tag. Won’t happen, point being everyone has a point in which they will no longer be able to hunt elk because of tag fees. Most of us aren’t there yet, but it’s possible. Slippery slope is real in that article.

There’s a reason 99% of members here aren’t hunting Sheep in Alaska and it ain’t because it’s during elk season….$$$$$$

I hunted sheep in Alaska this year for next to nothing. I just wasn't the one that was going to pull the trigger.

As far as the increased special draw, I think the state can do whatever it wants with its own resources, including raising license fees, decreasing tag allocations, whatever. They have no tenant that says they need to manage for NR hunters. If NR hunters get used as the main funding source then that is the fault of NR hunters, you can always go somewhere else or choose not to participate. It's up to the individual to decide how to allocate their own resources in a manner that suits their goals. Hell, you could cow hunt in damn near every western state every year if you wanted (for pretty cheap) but almost everyone has to chase the antler porn. Since everyone and their brother wants to hunt elk out-of-state, prices are going to go up, so prepare yourself.

 

[S.Clancy]

It doesn’t fit the North American model of wildlife conservation because access to animals owned by the public isn’t supposed to be based on your socioeconomic status. Landowner tags are already there for the well off.

The problem here is going to be a significant increase in point creep in the regular draws. So the folks with money get better draw odds while those without suffer. If someone was to start buying points right now for elk in Wyoming, they may never catch the creep for a general tag. At a minimum it’ll take 8-10 years.

I can afford and will pay the increase. I like hunting elk. The point schemes are all just that, schemes. It’s a money racket, like most other things with government involvement. Point sales and the fleeting dream of ever drawing a tag will keep the ballooned budget afloat.


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The idea that if you spend more money your more valuable piece of conservation efforts, is a falsehood we need to stomp out now before hunting here follows the European model.

When the average hunter feels they are no longer valued they will stop contributing and no amount of money will be able to replace that.

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NR of WY, or MT where I live, have no legal right to the resources of that state. NR hunters are acquiring the ability to hunt the resources of another state's residents by paying more money. The end.

 

[tdhanses]

Your example would be relevant if there was a significant price difference between a ticket for residents vs non residents where the game was held.

And the home team paid a little more, lol.

 

[fatlander]

NR of WY, or MT where I live, have no legal right to the resources of that state. NR hunters are acquiring the ability to hunt the resources of another state's residents by paying more money. The end.

They’re also the ones keeping the lights on for the hunting you enjoy. Paying the lions share of the budget while being allocated crumbs isn’t sustainable.


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[bsnedeker]

They’re also the ones keeping the lights on for the hunting you enjoy. Paying the lions share of the budget while being allocated crumbs isn’t sustainable.


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If you say so....seems to be working pretty great so far!

 

[fatlander]

If you say so....seems to be working pretty great so far!

You, as do most of the other guys that live in your part of the world and frequent this site, seem like good hardworking no bull shit types. The kind of guys that think no one owes you a thing, especially the government. Until it comes to resident tags and then you bet your sweet ass that momma Montana or daddy Wyoming better stick it to the NRs a little harder as to maintain the status quo so you can always go to Wally World and buy your 40 dollar general tag that’s you’re entitled to.


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[S.Clancy]

They’re also the ones keeping the lights on for the hunting you enjoy. Paying the lions share of the budget while being allocated crumbs isn’t sustainable.


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You, as do most of the other guys that live in your part of the world and frequent this site, seem like good hardworking no bull shit types. The kind of guys that think no one owes you a thing, especially the government. Until it comes to resident tags and then you bet your sweet ass that momma Montana or daddy Wyoming better stick it to the NRs a little harder as to maintain the status quo so you can always go to Wally World and buy your 40 dollar general tag that’s you’re entitled to.


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The thing is, in our State Constitution (MT) it says the resources of the state are held in trust for the citizens of the state. It says nothing about fairness for NR wanting to utilize those same resources. I understand your frustration about the rising costs because historically the costs were much lower. I also appreciate NR packing the load financially, but, the truth of the matter is we could make up NR funding by increasing our laughably cheap R licenses by 100-125%.

You could take a stand by hunting cows instead, at about 20% of the cost, or not participating at all. Or you can call our, or WY, legislatures, tho they likely wont care cause you aren't electing them.

And our Sportsmans with Bear license is 85$, for deer, elk, bear, fishing, upland game, conservation license and access fees. Not 40$ for an elk tag, full transparency.