$1000 Scope Advice

[Jordan Smith]

SWFA is even cheaper without FFP and is an option.

The FFP vs SPF wage on forever.....I don't see a downside to it if you find a scope with it in your price bracket tho? One question I do ask is "Why not use max magnification?" Meaning....If I am shooting to 600 yards.....and I have a 4-18X Scope....under what circumstance would I even want to use it at 9X? unlesss i simply spaced out and forgot to turn up the power? In which case a 2 MOA wind hold is still 2 MOA....

The SWFA MOA reticles have a floating dot in the center. I wasn't a fan at first. But I don't mind it now. I'm gonna grab a 3rd on the Sale day.

Field of view and optical deterioration at higher X (in any scope). Higher magnification isn't always the best in any given scenario.

 

[Wrongside]

The bushnell.will track right on but the glass isn't great from what I've heard. They are good prs scopes bUT don't have good low light performance.

Not in my experience. Not only does my 3-12 LRHS track absolutely perfect when tested on a optical grid... the glass is very clear and bright. Same with my buddy's 3-12. I can't speak to the qualities of the 4.5-18, because I haven't actually owned or used one, but the 3-12 is a very easy to use scope.

It's a excellent scope for a $1000...

 

[Wrongside]

Yeah, I'm leaning heavily towards a NF, SWFA, or Bushnell LRHS. NF is bombproof, SWFA is best price, and Bushnell is apparently really good and in my budget. I can't find the SWFA or the Bushnell to get my hands and on check out. My bigger problem now is trying to decide if I do/don't want a FFP after reading several of the comments on this forum.

You're definitely on the right track. I'd personally lean toward the 3-12 LRHS or SWFA SS of your choice... Or save for a while longer and get something really nice.

And completely ignore the suggestions for Leupold. I like their scopes for some applications, but for long range turret rigs, they're an excercise in frustration.

 

[dotman]

You're definitely on the right track. I'd personally lean toward the 3-12 LRHS or SWFA SS of your choice... Or save for a while longer and get something really nice.

And completely ignore the suggestions for Leupold. I like their scopes for some applications, but for long range turret rigs, they're an excercise in frustration.

I'd be interested to see a comparison of the bushnell 3-12 vs the nightforce shv 3-10.

I agree on ignoring the Leupold 3-12, has no parallex adj, returned mine because of that and still after buying it on sale, if I sent it back to get upgraded to the 2 turn turret it would cost more then a NF SHV 3-10, so far I'm very happy with the NF 3-10.

 

[5MilesBack]

And completely ignore the suggestions for Leupold. I like their scopes for some applications, but for long range turret rigs, they're an excercise in frustration.

I keep hearing this. What exactly happens with them? I have two Mark 4's with M1 turrets and haven't had any issues yet. But one is only a year old and the other I just got a couple months ago.

 

[TheCougar]

I keep hearing this. What exactly happens with them? I have two Mark 4's with M1 turrets and haven't had any issues yet. But one is only a year old and the other I just got a couple months ago.

Disclaimer up front: I have no experience with Leupold. However, I'm a research fanatic before I make a large purchase and two brands had more negative comments than any other... Leupold was one of them, and almost all the negative feedback was in regards to tracking. It is enough to steer me away, even if only half of the comments were legit.

 

[5MilesBack]

Leupold was one of them, and almost all the negative feedback was in regards to tracking. It is enough to steer me away, even if only half of the comments were legit.

Yes, but Leupold makes MANY different scope models. Are the CDS models worse than others? Are they all crap, no matter what turret system they use? We need to be discussing apples to apples. The Mark 8's are $4k+ scopes........are they lumped in as crap too??????

I had a VX3 scope that wasn't worth a crap as far as even sighting it in. But the VX3 is quite different than a lot of the others they make.

 

[dotman]

Yes, but Leupold makes MANY different scope models. Are the CDS models worse than others? Are they all crap, no matter what turret system they use? We need to be discussing apples to apples. The Mark 8's are $4k+ scopes........are they lumped in as crap too??????

I had a VX3 scope that wasn't worth a crap as far as even sighting it in. But the VX3 is quite different than a lot of the others they make.

Context does matter, now I doubt anyone is talking about a $4k scope in a $1k thread? So all the leupolds being discussed I would think fall in the $1k or less range which would mean they probably have the cds which is what is known to have the tracking issues

 

[Tod osier]

I keep hearing this. What exactly happens with them? I have two Mark 4's with M1 turrets and haven't had any issues yet. But one is only a year old and the other I just got a couple months ago.

I too have seen a lot of reference to "failures" but not much detail as to specifically how they fail. If a huge percent fail, what are they failing of? A rough breakdown would be nice. Given the simplicity of what is going on in a scope as far as movement, it seems pretty straightforward to identify.

 

[5MilesBack]

Context does matter, now I doubt anyone is talking about a $4k scope in a $1k thread? So all the leupolds being discussed I would think fall in the $1k or less range which would mean they probably have the cds which is what is known to have the tracking issues

The Mark 4's were $1200-$1600 scopes before they came out with the Mark 6's and Mark 8's. Now they are clearing them out for as little as $700. That's why I bought the second one, but had already used the first one for a year and I like them so far. I've moved the turrets to all the ends of adjustment a few times after sighting in, and shot the rifles from 100 out to 600 and back to 100 so far using the turrets without issue. I'm just wondering if I should expect them to fail at some point. My daughter even dropped one rifle as it fell off her shoulder and didn't catch it, and it landed on the rocks directly on the windage turret. I reset it to zero, and expected it to be off......but it was perfect still at the range. Oh well, so far so good. I'll have to find a place where I can get out past 600 and do some longer range testing, as both these scopes have 110 MOA total of elevation adjustment, which I should be able to use close to half that as my rails are 0 MOA rails.

 

[dotman]

The Mark 4's were $1200-$1600 scopes before they came out with the Mark 6's and Mark 8's. Now they are clearing them out for as little as $700. That's why I bought the second one, but had already used the first one for a year and I like them so far. I've moved the turrets to all the ends of adjustment a few times after sighting in, and shot the rifles from 100 out to 600 and back to 100 so far using the turrets without issue. I'm just wondering if I should expect them to fail at some point. My daughter even dropped one rifle as it fell off her shoulder and didn't catch it, and it landed on the rocks directly on the windage turret. I reset it to zero, and expected it to be off......but it was perfect still at the range. Oh well, so far so good. I'll have to find a place where I can get out past 600 and do some longer range testing, as both these scopes have 110 MOA total of elevation adjustment, which I should be able to use close to half that as my rails are 0 MOA rails.

I have only ever heard the tracking issues with the cds system, I bet your good to go.

 

[TheCougar]

Sorry I can't be more specific. It kind of came down to me hearing the same thing several times and it just turned me off to the brand in regards to this particular decision with this specific budget. I can't speak to the exact models or rate of incidence either. I hope your scopes continue to work like a champ!

 

[Formidilosus]

Variable power Mk4's (save the 34mm tubes version) are nothing more than the appropriately rebadged VX3's. The erector systems are identical. Hunting scopes were and are not designed for dialing. The erector system must purpose built to ensure correct repeated use without failure, backlash, drift, dead spots, and zero shift.


I've posted several times as to what issues are seen and why and I've also posted several times as to why most people don't notice the issues. Just because someone hasn't noticed a problem, doesn't mean that there isn't one. I've shot and tested hundreds and it doesn't take but a modicum of effort to research "Leupold failure to track". There are numerous videos showing tracking tests of Leupolds "top" tactical scopes failing miserably.



For everyone that says- "mine works fine"... 20 years ago was it not common to tap the turret once you've made an adjustment to settle it? I did it all the time to Leupolds (and every other scope). I'll bet most still do it now. If you ever used the early target turreted scopes it was almost mandatory that you dial past your desired adjustment and then back down, right? It's also common to make an adjustment, and then shoot a couple of shots to "settle it". Think about all the "tricks" that you've done or seen with scopes while zeroing. Think about everytime you've made an adjustment and the bullet did not move the EXACT amount input...... and then remember that the erector systems are the same. Leupold has not drastically redesigned or changed the erector system in a couple of decades.

The Mark 6's don't even work reliably..... a $300 VX2 or VX3 with a CDS knob instead of a coin slot isn't going to either.

 

[Formidilosus]

Since it will inevitably come to someone questioning whether I've used Leupolds or not.... yes. To the tune of a few hundred thousand rounds. I don't say this to start an argument, I say it to add the reality that is seen when they are used to dial.

 

[pyroducksx3]

I have a vx 3 4.5-14 lr that has performed well for me. I have shot it out to 1300 yards and taken a deer 916 and an elk at 934 yards with it. I even shot it in a couple steel shoots and tied for first or placed well against other shooters using nightforces and other optics. But I agree it seems to be an exception rather than the rule. Unlike others I simply can't afford to buy many different optics to try and get first hand expierence with them. Instead I talk to people that I trust that have shot these optics and try and get their honest/unbiased feedback on them. Going off of that pretty much the only people that like the leupolds are using the reticle for hold over. The dialers seem to all have problems. I really wanted to try the new vx6hd 3-18 and almost had myself talked into buying one but there's just too many good solid reviews of poor leupold performance to ignore for me.

 

[6mm Remington]

Leupold 4.5-14x40mm with the B&C reticle is a great scope. My son has one on his 6mm Remington and I have one on my 280 AI. I shot my first animal with it with one shot at 450 yards. It was a large cow elk that only went about 30 feet after I hit her.

Zeiss Conquest 3-15 with the Z600 reticle would be another excellent scope. The 2-10 Zeiss with the same reticle would also be a very good one. The Zeiss Conquest and the Leupold both have solid reputations. MY son has a Zeiss Conquest on his 300 WSM and it has worked very well. Not with the Z600 reticle which we wish it had now!

 

[Mtslackcountry]

I am in the market for a new scope to put on my rifle I am building. It is a tikka t3x 7mm RM bedded in a B&C stock. I plan on using it to hunt to ranges up to 600yds on elk, deer, and antelope. My number one priority is durability and function, then features, then optical quality. I want a scope that will not break, lose zero, or have poor tracking. It need to be around the 3-15 magnification range, FFP, MIL or MOA reticle, MIL or MOA turrets, and some form of zero lock. My budget is around $1000 max. Some scopes that I've been considering:

SWFA: good durability, bad glass
Vortex Viper PST: average durability and glass
Leupold Vx-3i
Bushnell elite long range hunter: good glass and durability, nut at the top of the budget
Nightforce SHV: great durability and good glass, but terrible eye relief and out of budget

So what scope are you gona get?

 

[TheCougar]

Today, I am leaning towards the LRHS... ask me again tomorrow and I might change my tune. I just got orders to move to Texas, so that has been occupying my attention.

 

[pyroducksx3]

This probably won't make sense since I was the one throwing the fit about the glass but...... if the glass meets your expectations it's probably your best bet. It has a great magnification range and the dials are super accurate. I was actually going to buy one until a deal on a atacr f1 popped up. It's going on a competition rifle and I felt the glass would have been sufficient for that. I'm also pulling that action out of the comp stock and putting it into a chassis with adjustable stock for the kids to use for hunting.

 

[Wrongside]

I keep hearing this. What exactly happens with them? I have two Mark 4's with M1 turrets and haven't had any issues yet. But one is only a year old and the other I just got a couple months ago.

Boy, I probably could have worded that statement a little more delicately. Sorry.

In my defence, I'd just zeroed 4 scopes the day before, 3 Leupolds and one LRHS, and was maybe still feeling the frustration. The LRHS was a piece of cake- IIRC 3 shots @ 100M to walk it onto the bull- matching reticle/turrets/accurate, reliable adjustments... The Leupolds -2 brand new- bounced all over the place and took 2-3 times the ammo to get zeroed. Totally glitchy and inaccurate tracking.

Most of my scopes are Leupolds and I like them just fine for a LW hunting rifle that gets sighted in and left. IME, they hold that zero well thru all manner of use, horses, backpacking, whatever. But I'll never buy another for a LR target gun. All my Leupold experience is M4 and down, I have none with the higher-end stuff. Plus this is a $1000 scope thread.

Hope your scopes continue to function flawlessly for you!