Your thoughts on these 2 goats?

Bob L. · Jul 20, 2015

Got some great photos of 2 goats that came within 10 yards of me on my scouting trip.
What do you think of these goats?
Thanks
Bob

Bob L. · Jul 20, 2015

More photos.

ahlgringo · Jul 20, 2015

Looking at these on my phone but would guess 2 nannies- one decent sized

Bob L. · Jul 20, 2015

I am pretty sure you can see a sex organ on this pic? These are really hard to judge in the field. This was my first outing ever looking at goats in the wild. I appreciate any responses I can get.
Thanks

Vids · Jul 20, 2015

They look like billies to me, nice ones. Around 9" horns maybe? The bases seem too thick to be nannies, and the curve starts down lower - nanny horns stay straight and curve at the end.

For reference, this is my billy from 2012. 8 1/2 inch horns, aged 4.5 years old.

View attachment 26998

Bob L. · Jul 20, 2015

Vids said:
They look like billies to me, nice ones. Around 9" horns maybe? The bases seem too thick to be nannies, and the curve starts down lower - nanny horns stay straight and curve at the end.

For reference, this is my billy from 2012. 8 1/2 inch horns, aged 4.5 years old.

View attachment 26998

I cant follow that link. Can you repost? That is what I was thinking was are the bases to thick to be nannys and the curve to the horns. My dad saw their boys on both of them, but I am trying to figure out what is what. I know nothing but the bigger one was a shooter to me, but I know nothing at this. I guessed around a 9" horn too.

ahlgringo · Jul 20, 2015

Totally could be, the eye patches and the lack of the black around the horn bases is what I was going on (and small picture on my phone). I know the horn curvature- but that is super hard to judge sometimes. If you saw the goods though that would prob be your best indicator

they also dont have any "dirty" patches or hair tufts which points to billy. I love this game though- its just like the one at the sheep and goat seminar put on by parks and wildlife here in Colorado.

Vids · Jul 20, 2015

Vids · Jul 20, 2015

Vids · Jul 20, 2015

Vids · Jul 20, 2015

There are a few pics of mine.

Here are a couple of links I found helpful when I did my hunt:

http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/HunterEd/MountainGoatGenderIDGuideWEBRev09102010.pdf

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=goathunting.billyid

They are definitely the most difficult species to judge sex on! And even more difficult to judge trophy size! When I shot mine we just identified that we had 3 mature billies and I shot the one I thought was the best. It was wide open so I couldn't get any closer than 300 yards.

Another confusing thing I found is that big billies aren't necessarily loners, even though you will hear to look for goats that are solo. While scouting I was perplexed because I spied 3 nice billies hanging with a large group of nannies and kids. I also spotted numerous solo nannies. Asking around online, some folks confirmed that you can't bank on a lone goat being a billy.

Nick Muche · Jul 20, 2015

Definitely Billies, nice photos too!

tater · Jul 21, 2015

Both Billies (but young: thin facial profile, not as much weight on neck/shoulders, but i am not seeing 9" horns there).

Billies don't tend to exhibit dusted up rump patches on summer coats as much as fall/winter coats.

When in doubt, wait until they urinate. If it squats it is a female, stretches out it is a male.

That is usually the only way to be 100% sure most of the time.

Bob L. · Jul 21, 2015

tater said:
Both Billies (but young: thin facial profile, not as much weight on neck/shoulders, but i am not seeing 9" horns there).

Billies don't tend to exhibit dusted up rump patches on summer coats as much as fall/winter coats.

When in doubt, wait until they urinate. If it squats it is a female, stretches out it is a male.

That is usually the only way to be 100% sure most of the time.

Thank you,
I have no experience, what would Billy's like this score? We saw 2 other Billys from a distance and their bodies looked huge. I commented to my dad that their bodies seemed a lot bigger than these two. Input would help me with field judging looking for a mature goat.
Thanks

endorice · Jul 22, 2015

Bob - what state are you hunting in? If goats are coming in that close, I'm assuming this is a heavily used hiking trail and the goats became comfortable with people.

Tons of pictures on the internet to help you start looking through the differences on horn and body size/structure. The aboved referenced PDF is great.

I took an average billy in Colorado years ago, and it was a trophy to *me*. That's what is important

Bob L. · Jul 22, 2015

endorice said:
Bob - what state are you hunting in? If goats are coming in that close, I'm assuming this is a heavily used hiking trail and the goats became comfortable with people.

Tons of pictures on the internet to help you start looking through the differences on horn and body size/structure. The aboved referenced PDF is great.

I took an average billy in Colorado years ago, and it was a trophy to *me*. That's what is important

You are right about what is a trophy to you. When I drew I said I would like to take a respectable Billy in an area that wouldn't kill me to get it out safety first. I have looked at lots of pics and it is different looking at pictures online and actually judging on the hoof at least for me. Just trying to gauge. I was lucky enough to draw the Elkhorn Mountains in Eastern Oregon and yes they are use to people.
Do you mind sharing your goat pic?
Thanks
Bob

tater · Jul 22, 2015

Bob L. said:
Thank you,
I have no experience, what would Billy's like this score? We saw 2 other Billys from a distance and their bodies looked huge. I commented to my dad that their bodies seemed a lot bigger than these two. Input would help me with field judging looking for a mature goat.
Thanks

Either of those goats are high 30'3/low40's. Smaller bases, under 9", and the weight thins out rapidly after first third (long kid tips still).

Judging goats is a game of 1/8-1/4"s. Bomber goats have both length and more importantly even width up the horn (symmetrically side to side as well).

A mature billy has more physical weight on the front end (blocky shoulders/no neck), and has a pronounced facial profile (less slender/blocky face, hump on nose). Look for a billy with bases where there is almost no gap between the bases, the length is at least two ear lengths high, and the weight of horns carries evenly (and thickly) to the tips. Look for shorter kid tips in relation to the middle growth.

Jason Snyder · Jul 22, 2015

Good advice from Tater. The one looks to be 4 1/2 and I couldn't tell on the other one, probably about the same. Neither one is huge, relatively speaking, but may be a good goat for that particular area.

A truly huge billy is not easily mistaken. He'll have a donkey head with a big roman nose, and his horns will almost, if not touch in the middle.

Vids · Jul 22, 2015

A question on judging them - I was looking at the horn length in relation to the ears, that's why I said 9". (Mine has horns that look a little shorter in relation to the ears and it's 8.5") Do their ears get longer as they mature? I agree the noses don't look that long, that's one thing that threw me a little bit because I think the horns look similar to mine.

Good point from Jason about relative size in your unit, gotta keep that in mind as you scout. Most of the CO units do not have true trophy billies, in my particular unit a 9" goat is outstanding. Other places can have 10-11" goats though.

bobhunts · Jul 27, 2015

Based off what I know and that is little..the base of the horns are bigger that the eye..Should be a billy! I didn't pay attention to the curvature as much as the size of the bases. Good luck!

Your thoughts on these 2 goats?

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