200 yard sight in

[Mjm316]

I was at the range for a few hours today trying to find out what shoots better out of my rifle. I'm shooting a Win model 70 300wsm with a McMillian edge stock topped with a Swaro Z5 3.5-18x44. I started out at 100yds and was nuts on. I shot the best groups I've ever shot. Not quite all 3 touching but damn damn close. This was with all factory ammo - Fed premium trophy copper 180gr shot best at 100yds. Nosler Accubond 180 shot ok but not quite as good. Now let's bump it out to 200yds. I'm all over the place! Same rest same scope setting. Everything identical. I'll get 1 4"low and 2" left then 3"low and 3" right then 4" high and 2" right. This went on for quite some time with both brands of ammo. I eventually got frustrated and called it a day. I know this isn't exactly long range but previously I had always sighted in at 2" high at 100 and called it good. Today I wanted to actually try to zero at 200 but didn't have much luck. Any thoughts, comment or suggestions on what may be wrong or what I might be doing wrong?

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Scope still tight? Can you adequately see the exact center on the target (I know I have to change aim points based on the distance, my crosshairs will completely cover a small target a ways out)? Anything change on form or same setup from 100? Did you get into your own head? Fatigue?

 

[Mjm316]

With the scope on 18 I can see the target out at 200 pretty good. I don't believe the scope is loose because at the end of the day I shot 2 groups of 3 at 100 and they were very good. Had to leave on a good note

 

[GKPrice]

what pods8 says for starts - if you're turned up to 18 that can cause problems for "some of us" at times - was the barrel warm/hot ? heat waves will make the dot or target you're trying to settle on dance like crazy and it can be hard to realize - do you have to change benches/rests to shoot 200 yds ? and if you decide it is not your form or rest or hot barrel it could possibly be that you need 200 yards to wring out the accuracy for your rifle - have you checked and/or torqued the action screws ? is the action bedded in the stock ? is the barrel free floated or bedded and does it touch the stock anywhere along the barrel channel ? there is more than meets the eye to get is all dialed in and it's even more frustrating when your buddy makes it look easy with his out of the box outfit - a lot of target and longrange shooters say a bullet does not "go to sleep" until somewhere beyond 200 yards, sometimes quite a ways beyond (go to sleep means the bullet stabilizes in flight) ALL that said it sure does sound like something is loose and moving when reading your post - there are a lot of potential moving parts involved too - if you go back to the range and shoot groups with all the ammo again (at 200) and the groupings do similar moving around with them all then I'd think you have something very loose or broken somewhere

 

[LaHunter]

shooting at 100 yds CAN cover up deficiencies in you setup. If you are shooting .5 MOA at 100, your rifle / ammo combo should be capable of at least 1 MOA at 200 yds. I would get someone else to shoot your rifle / ammo combo at 200 yds and compare results. It could be simply operator error. Usually, if you have something loose, you probably aren't gonna get clover leaf groups, even at 100 yards.

An easy drill you can do at the range is to do a few 'groups' of dry fire. I always do this before I actually start shooting and I will mix these in throughout my session.

Good Luck

 

[rayporter]

+1^

go back to 100 and prove it again!

wind you can not see as well as mirage will play havoc with 200y and out. hang a ribbon to see wind.

 

[Mjm316]

Thanks guys! I've got a few things to go over and check out today. I'm nearly positive that that barrel is not touching the stock any place. As far as a hot barrel, I shot 3 then let it cool way down. I never saw any heat waves so I don't believe that was a factor. I did have to change benches going from 100 out to 200 yards but used the same lead sled. Also the benches at the range are all concrete so nothing moving or anything there.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Thanks guys! I've got a few things to go over and check out today. I'm nearly positive that that barrel is not touching the stock any place. As far as a hot barrel, I shot 3 then let it cool way down. I never saw any heat waves so I don't believe that was a factor. I did have to change benches going from 100 out to 200 yards but used the same lead sled. Also the benches at the range are all concrete so nothing moving or anything there.

All good advice above. I think the next step I would try is go home, have a whiskey or two, watch a couple of college football games and have a good nights rest.
THEN, I would go out the next day and shoot at 200 the very first thing and just see how you do. At least you could eliminate some factors. One other thing I would do is crank up your scope up and down a couple of times, shoot at 100 and see if it holds your zero.

Randy

 

[GKPrice]

All good advice above. I think the next step I would try is go home, have a whiskey or two, watch a couple of college football games and have a good nights rest.
THEN, I would go out the next day and shoot at 200 the very first thing and just see how you do. At least you could eliminate some factors. One other thing I would do is crank up your scope up and down a couple of times, shoot at 100 and see if it holds your zero.

Randy

GOOD advice ! (think I'll take it !!)

 

[Ohio Darin]

Does it have the MOA Trigger System? Just curious what the trigger pull is set at. Had similar problem with my old Remington 700 with trigger pull up over 5 lbs. Found out was pulling the trigger instead of squeezing thanks to having a spotter watch my form. Could mask this at close range but at longer ranges it was quite obvious. My current rifle set up it 2 1/4 pounds.

 

[GKPrice]

Does it have the MOA Trigger System? Just curious what the trigger pull is set at. Had similar problem with my old Remington 700 with trigger pull up over 5 lbs. Found out was pulling the trigger instead of squeezing thanks to having a spotter watch my form. Could mask this at close range but at longer ranges it was quite obvious. My current rifle set up it 2 1/4 pounds.

Good call ! I completely overlooked that

 

[Muley Buck]

All good advice! Dude! You gotta get off the lead sled. It screws everything up.

 

[paleraider]

+1^

go back to 100 and prove it again!

wind you can not see as well as mirage will play havoc with 200y and out. hang a ribbon to see wind.

This really isn't true. Unless the wind is like 25 MPH+ hour there just isn't enough time for it to be much of a factor. The most likely cause, and the no one likes to here is it is the shooter. Shooting small groups at 100 yards is pretty meaningless and doesn't make you a good shot at farther distances, distance shows every deficiency with your form and trigger pull.

 

[Blinginpse]

All good advice! Dude! You gotta get off the lead sled. It screws everything up.

Bags better than a sled?


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[rayporter]

you are sooooo wrong about that.

a 2 mph wind is barely noticeable and may not be felt at all at the bench. a 308 can move over an inch with a switch at 200.

the main reason i suggested shooting again at 100 is to confirm that the rifle is STILL shooting well. or to find out if it was a fluke or luck.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...sing-wind-flags-youre-throwing-away-accuracy/

 

[rayporter]

google broken stock, lead sled.
yes a good rest and bags are the way to go.

 

[GKPrice]

Bags better than a sled?


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Yes, I agree with Muley Buck ! would you put a rifle in a vice to shoot it ? likely not because when there is recoil it needs to go somewhere and if it is controlled it will transfer to the rifle - stock , bedding , something has to give eventually - Personally, I use an MTM red plastic cradle with a 4lb bag in the tray, within 3-5 shots it will skid itself clear off the bench if I don't push it back into place but it provides a stable platform to aim and shoot from - I also often use bags which work really well but a big coat bunched up on a truck hood is as good a rest as anything

 

[GKPrice]

the ONLY reason to shoot from a bench is to prove the rifle's ability - After that's accomplished it's all on the shooter

 

[paleraider]

google broken stock, lead sled.
yes a good rest and bags are the way to go.

Help me understand what the wind has to do with being 4" high or 3" low? If he is having greater dispersion in the vertical plane, to me, that strongly indicates shooter issues. The left and right just tags along with that.

 

[mtswampfox]

just for fun would try using a bench rest target, the ones with the heavy black square. using it as an aimpoint by aligning it on one of the quadrants of the crosshairs, not putting the crosshairs in the middle of the box. this gives a better view of a target and easier to maintain said aim point for several shots. dont care where the group is just how tight is the group.