Arrow Question for WA state

[Backcountry Assassin]

Trying to figure out a solution for my arrows and my new bow.

Info: I have a Bowtech Experience 70 lb Draw weight, 27" draw length, I currently have Victory V3 arrows 28" inches carbon to carbon ( 8.1 gpi), with a 100 grain field tip (broadhead is 100 grains as well) I have CE bulldog collars (4 grains) and Lumenock lighted nocks (24 grains) and then blazer vanes (6 grains each) and wraps ( appx 10 grains?).

with this set up I believe by our game regs in WA I am short of the legal hunting weight, I get around 375 grains however the minimum is 420 total grains for my 70 lb draw.

my question is if I add a brass 50 grain insert and go with 125 grain broadheads I will then clear the legal minimum, but will my arrow become under spined and will that be too much weight at the front of the arrow? I have a basic understanding of how FOC works and what I should try to achieve for the best tuning but I don't know for sure. I know that if I cut my arrows shorter, which I have that option, my spine strengthens a little, but then I lose weight as well. My other option is selling or trading the arrows for what I used to use which were FMJ's or a similar heavy hunting arrow, which I am leaning towards.

I am just trying to find out if there is a way for me to stay with what I have as I do really like these victorys, but not at the cost of illegality or incorrect arrow spine, if that makes sense?

I by no means think I know everything so if somewhere in there I have stated something wrong or am confused feel free to school me on the whole subject as I would love to learn, I just haven't been able to find info on this exact scenario so figured id ask for some thoughts

 

[OR Archer]

Without knowing what the spine of that arrow is and just taking a guess I would say yes, you would be under spined by adding the 50gr insert and 125gr head.

An alternative arrow for you to consider is an Easton FMJ 400. 27.5" cut, with a wrap, blazers, 100gr head. That would put you right around 425gr. Add a lighted nock into the equation and you'd be around 435gr.

The whole 6gr per pound law in Washington is just absurd. They need to just ditch that.

 

[Backcountry Assassin]

Ok, that makes sense, the v3's are a 350, the fmj's I had (have one left over) were a 340, and both shoot well, but obviously the fmj is heavier per inch, so I can go with a lighter head up front and not have to add too much weight and keep a somewhat forgiving spine.

 

[jfruechtel]

Not familiar with this law up in Washington but do game wardens carry around scales for this? Not trying to sound like a renegade but this seems pretty unenforceable.

 

[Jon Boy]

Not familiar with this law up in Washington but do game wardens carry around scales for this? Not trying to sound like a renegade but this seems pretty unenforceable.

Ive never had one check me with a scale there before. Also, I still don't understand the point of the law.

 

[KimWar1911]

Not familiar with this law up in Washington but do game wardens carry around scales for this? Not trying to sound like a renegade but this seems pretty unenforceable.

Yes they do. I haven't seen it myself but a buddy has.

 

[shamlin88]

Here is a simple solution; re-fletch with 4-5" vanes like Blazer Killers or AEP Plastifletch. These are 13 grains a piece which will give you 21 extra grains and superior arrow flight past 50 yards. We tested these vs. Blazers with COC broad heads and the results were shocking. You can then go to 125 grain heads and the extra vane length will help correct the weakened spine; if it happens.

 

[Matt W.]

Here is a simple solution; re-fletch with 4-5" vanes like Blazer Killers or AEP Plastifletch. These are 13 grains a piece which will give you 21 extra grains and superior arrow flight past 50 yards. We tested these vs. Blazers with COC broad heads and the results were shocking. You can then go to 125 grain heads and the extra vane length will help correct the weakened spine; if it happens.

Would you use the Killer Vanes on a Micro Diameter arrow like the Easton Deep Six FMJs? Thanks!

 

[OR Archer]

Would you use the Killer Vanes on a Micro Diameter arrow like the Easton Deep Six FMJs? Thanks!

No. You wouldn't be able to fletch with a helical with a vane that long on a shaft that size.

 

[kyle1112]

you could also give these a shot(link below), my buddy up here uses them and loves them! I have a short draw as well(27.5") and have always stayed as far away from lower gpi arrows for the same reason you are having. I shoot the easton carbon injexion 330s(28.5" carbon tip to tip) with 100gr. head, blazer vanes, 4"wrap and standard g nock and weight in at 431gr. my foc could be a little higher but im right around 11% so im ok with it...if you could pick up a dozen new arrows im positive you could sell your current arrows to compensate the new arrow price. OR Archer can help you out in that department too. You could also lower the poundage on your bow till you got new arrows...just sayin

http://www.clean-shot.com/165-inserts-overview

 

[shamlin88]

No. You wouldn't be able to fletch with a helical with a vane that long on a shaft that size.

Completely false! I just finished fletching a Easton Carbon One 600 spine arrow with a 4" AAE Plastifletch on a Bitz jig. The Carbon One 600 O.D. Is .213 vs. the O.D. On a Deep Six FMJ at .230 to .240. It will fletch with no issues on any decent fletching jig. You will have to adjust the jig to insure fletching base contact is uniform.

 

[shamlin88]

View attachment 25329View attachment 25329Here is the arrow fletched 10 min ago.

 

[OR Archer]

Completely false! I just finished fletching a Easton Carbon One 600 spine arrow with a 4" AAE Plastifletch on a Bitz jig. The Carbon One 600 O.D. Is .213 vs. the O.D. On a Deep Six FMJ at .230 to .240. It will fletch with no issues on any decent fletching jig. You will have to adjust the jig to insure fletching base contact is uniform.

Well for one I was referring to 4-5" vanes like we were previously discussing. Not shorter 3" or less vanes like you have pictured. So again you are not going to get a good helical or good adhesion on a 4-5" vane on an Injexion or similar size shaft. Not to mention why on earth would you want to add all the extra weight to the back of the arrow? If you can't get a 2" Blazer or similar size vane to tune even with broadheads then you have other issues you need to be looking at, not just the vane itself.

 

[shamlin88]

Dude are you seriously gonna make me go in and and take a pic with a tape measure next to the vane? Get over yourself! We have done extensive testing on cut on contact broad heads out to 100 yards and the 4-5" vanes supremely out perform the blazer short vanes. In addition the OP is looking for a way to use his current arrows and get them to a higher grain weight. This is an easy solution to accomplish everything. As an engineer I can tell you that it is pure physics that the more vane profile you have the better the arrow will steer at longer distances. There is a reason fighter jets use short wings vs longer profile wings; so they can maneuver tighter turns quicker and easier. Long wingspan aircraft utilize large profile wings to increase range and efficiency. Now I'm gonna go take that pic,because I know how you are!

 

[shamlin88]

Anther thing, 4" helical vanes gives you a much tighter and faster spin, thus you are more accurate as a it takes more force to move an object spinning at a high rate of speed vs no spin at all. It is the exact reason long range rifle shooter use the highest amount of rifling they can in their barrels. Imagine trying to shoot a smooth bore at 300myards accurately. The reason for this example is no matter how you try, maintains and getting a good helical Vane with only 2" of length is very difficult. Most just offset the front and back of the jig giving the game a more angular offset, but not a true helical. Blazer type vanes are awesome shooting mechanicals and COC at close yardage so, but stretched out there it just takes more vane surface area; unless you 4 fletch which will drastically improve flight and accuracy.

 

[OR Archer]

Now I'll first admit I was wrong on the length of your vane in your pic.

Now. Get over myself huh? Hmmm. Really? Wow lol. And you know how I am too? lol. That's some of the funny shit right there.

Buddy this isn't AT. Take your attitude back over there. It's not needed here. If you can't contribute to a thread without being abrasive to others then don't post. And with this thread I'll just be done with you.

 

[shamlin88]

The reason I have a low post count is the because of guys like you. Yes you have tons more posting than I do, and you obviously have helped many here on this site, but there are other ways to achieve results in this game. On 2 occasions you have done what all the "Professionals" over on Archerytalk do; belittle and criticize differing opinions when you think your is the only way. Yea, I did get pretty ticked when you first said it couldn't be done, than blatantly question that I was trying to be deceptive. I brought my first experience from another post over to this one and shouldn't have done that. Bottom line, you tell me to go back to AT, dude you are cut from the same cloth as those Pros over there and act just like them. I am here to stay so I imagine we will be bumping heads on other posts where we try to help fellow archers. Dealing with one Pro over here on Rokslide will be much easier than the hundreds over on AT, lol. To the OP I apologize that we have hijacked the thread. But give my idea a try. It will save you the money of buying new arrows and I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results!

 

[GibsonKuenzi]

The reason I have a low post count is the because of guys like you. Yes you have tons more posting than I do, and you obviously have helped many here on this site, but there are other ways to achieve results in this game. On 2 occasions you have done what all the "Professionals" over on Archerytalk do; belittle and criticize differing opinions when you think your is the only way. Yea, I did get pretty ticked when you first said it couldn't be done, than blatantly question that I was trying to be deceptive. I brought my first experience from another post over to this one and shouldn't have done that. Bottom line, you tell me to go back to AT, dude you are cut from the same cloth as those Pros over there and act just like them. I am here to stay so I imagine we will be bumping heads on other posts where we try to help fellow archers. Dealing with one Pro over here on Rokslide will be much easier than the hundreds over on AT, lol. To the OP I apologize that we have hijacked the thread. But give my idea a try. It will save you the money of buying new arrows and I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results!

Im just a bystander who's been watching this thread, and even though I live in the same state as OR Archer, I have no idea who he is.

Its pretty obvious from your posts that you came into this thread defensive and aggressive towards OR Archer. If you have a problem with him from Archery Talk, why don't you leave it on that forum?

Your input is valued here just like anyone else's, but you've got nothing to prove or be defensive about. The picture you showed shows that it is definitely possible to fletch a 4" on a small shaft. Thank you for sharing that with us, and I am curious to hear about some of your results showing better broadhead flight at long ranges.

Leave the BS on Archery Talk.

-Gibson

 

[Backcountry Assassin]

I have been traveling for work the last few days, and sorry my question spawned some head butting, but again great ideas, I currently am still shooting my victories, as I stated I love these arrows, do wish they were heavier regardless of the state requirement, because I like heavy arrows, but since God blessed me with T-rex arms I end up here.

as an update what I have done is turned my bow down to a 67lb draw, put a 125 grain head on and am still using blazers with a very small wrap, I haven't picked up a scale yet to get exact weight in grains but I know im close, with a slightly higher FOC than I previously had I am getting some decent groups at long range but haven't spent a lot of time shooting just a few arrows here and there so I have some sight fine tuning to do as well as my own fine tuning on shot execution lol

again thanks for the ideas and tips guys with three kids and a mortgage its hard to come by extra cash just for arrows so this helped a bit as I am trying to save more money for some of my backcountry gear and make what I have work.

 

[Throluzaty]

Right on the money with a 300 spine arrow


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