Bare shaft tuning question

[TravisIN]

So I’m new to this and have watched and searched the question multiple times and what I find every where is that…
Tail left with a bareshaft mean the spine is too weak, and tail right means too stiff…correct?

However while doing my own bareshafting I think I am seeing the opposite. Here’s what has me thinking that and you can tell me why I’m wrong to get it out of my mind.

I’m shooting a satori @ 45#. Using a 340 Easton 6.5mm shaft. Used various lengths and weigh combos. 50/100 grain inserts and 100/125/150 grain points. I’ve shot it full length and trimmed down to about an inch in front of my grip. Everything tailed right and was kind surprised that a full length shaft with 250 up front was still too stiff.

So I was planning to order some 400s and then thought, I’m gonna shoot it out of a 25# bow I have just too see. So I put 50 grain insert, 100 grain head on the shortest shaft I have so that it’s as stiff as possible…and it tailed left. So I go through the same spiel with the 25# bow and EVERYTHING tailed left.

Can someone point out what is probably an obvious oversight and tell me what I’ve got backwards?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tilzbow]

You’ve got it right but tuning with bare shafts is difficult unless you’re from is really good (grip and release especially) and if trying to read the arrow’s orientation in the target then the target medium can also give different readings arrow to arrow which is why some pay more attention to where the bare shaft arrow impacts the target compared to fletched arrows.

I can’t comment on your results since they’re opposite of what one would expect but a shaft that’s way too stiff can give false readings since the back end of the arrow could bang off the riser and do the opposite of what you’d expect.

In my opinion, I’m sure your .340 spine is way too stiff. I’ve got a 31” draw, shoot a 50# bow, full length 32.5“ arrow at .400 spine with 190 grains up front. Pay zero attention to Easton spine charts, they always recommend too stiff of a shaft. If I were you I’d try a .500 spine arrow or a .400 spine with at least 250 grains up front.

 

[TravisIN]

I wondered if the extreme over spine was just so extreme it was doing something crazy. Appreciate the feedback. I’ll go ahead and order some 400s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nevadabugle]

@Tilzbow is giving good advice. Likely too stiff and deflecting off the riser.

Two other thoughts.

1. You are shooting right handed. Correct? Because results are completely opposite if your shooting lefthanded. Unlikely solution but wanted to double check.

2. I would raise up your nocking point to something that you know is too high ( 3/4 to 7/8 high ) and try one more time. I've seen a too low nocking point, cause a catapult type situation off the shelf give some funky bareshaft results before. Might be something to check.

 

[nevadabugle]

One more thought. I just reread your post. If a 340 is showing weak out of your 25 pound bow, there is something else going on here. Because that result is simply not a correct result. That 25 pound bow should be something in the 600 to 700 spine range. Some more ideas.

1. You are shooting left handed.
2. You are not setting up the centershot correctly. Can you share your center shot settings?
3. Your nocking point is way to low. Should likely be 3/8 to 5/8 high. Lots of my bows tune out in the 5/8 to 3/4 range. Can you share your nocking point settings?
4. Your form or release are causing these strange results.

 

[Jagger0502]

Spine is only one of the possibilities. Take a look at the pictures, if your form is good then one of those pictures will tell you what is wrong. Once you get to stiff or to weak the arrow can do all sorts of things, but I expect 340 on a 45lb is stiff. For reference, I am shooting a 350 spine at 28” out of a 60lb longbow with 225 gr up front.

 

[TravisIN]

One more thought. I just reread your post. If a 340 is showing weak out of your 25 pound bow, there is something else going on here. Because that result is simply not a correct result. That 25 pound bow should be something in the 600 to 700 spine range. Some more ideas.

1. You are shooting left handed.
2. You are not setting up the centershot correctly. Can you share your center shot settings?
3. Your nocking point is way to low. Should likely be 3/8 to 5/8 high. Lots of my bows tune out in the 5/8 to 3/4 range. Can you share your nocking point settings?
4. Your form or release are causing these strange results.

I’m a righty. On the satori the Nock height is 7/16. On the old 25lb Darton, only about 3/16ths high. Shooting off the shelf on both.


I’m the type that has to mess with something for it to really sink in. Meaning, I could watch and read that nock right is stiff but until I actually deal with it I’ll forget. Being new to the trad stuff, I just couldn’t shake my old habits. Shooting a 340 spine and it being too stiff with 250 up front on a full length shaft just got me hung up. Haha I thought I’d verify nock right=stiff and move past it and shoot the 25lb. That only made me believe more that I was right about 340 being ok.

Anyways I had some new 500s laying around so I figured I’d do some more tinkering. With a 25gr insert and a 150 point I had to cut about 1.75” off and got it to tune really good. I figured they would have been weak for sure. I check my draw weight and on 45lb limbs I’m actually only hitting 43lbs. Regardless it tuned.

So fletch some up with 4” feathers and holy hell my groups shrunk a ton. I was grouping decent when I was shooting 340s. But chalked it up to lack of experience why they weren’t super tight.

Put broadheads on and they sunk right in with the fp’s.

Moral of the story, I should have barshafted a few months ago when I started. I honestly thought from all the tinkering I did with compounds that I’d be good. I drastically underestimated the change. Good lessons learned. I don’t have a coach or anything but I think I have pretty decent form. Having the wrong spine all summer may have helped that bc I had to be absolutely “perfect” to get decent groups. Maybe that’s just in my head.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nevadabugle]

I’m a righty. On the satori the Nock height is 7/16. On the old 25lb Darton, only about 3/16ths high. Shooting off the shelf on both.


I’m the type that has to mess with something for it to really sink in. Meaning, I could watch and read that nock right is stiff but until I actually deal with it I’ll forget. Being new to the trad stuff, I just couldn’t shake my old habits. Shooting a 340 spine and it being too stiff with 250 up front on a full length shaft just got me hung up. Haha I thought I’d verify nock right=stiff and move past it and shoot the 25lb. That only made me believe more that I was right about 340 being ok.

Anyways I had some new 500s laying around so I figured I’d do some more tinkering. With a 25gr insert and a 150 point I had to cut about 1.75” off and got it to tune really good. I figured they would have been weak for sure. I check my draw weight and on 45lb limbs I’m actually only hitting 43lbs. Regardless it tuned.

So fletch some up with 4” feathers and holy hell my groups shrunk a ton. I was grouping decent when I was shooting 340s. But chalked it up to lack of experience why they weren’t super tight.

Put broadheads on and they sunk right in with the fp’s.

Moral of the story, I should have barshafted a few months ago when I started. I honestly thought from all the tinkering I did with compounds that I’d be good. I drastically underestimated the change. Good lessons learned. I don’t have a coach or anything but I think I have pretty decent form. Having the wrong spine all summer may have helped that bc I had to be absolutely “perfect” to get decent groups. Maybe that’s just in my head.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Glad you got it figured out. Good luck this season. Post up a successful pic.