California: where are the BT and muleys?

[JStol5]

In this state they can identify as which ever species they want too

This made my day

 

[Andrew12gauge]

My thoughts, a pure blacktail throws a smaller rack, so in areas where the 2 species overlap(which they seem to do a lot in California) and when the “species” comes into question for trophy purposes, you would have to call those hybrids mule deer rather than blacktail. Believe me I saw a lot of “mule deer” east of the cascade crest in Washington that clearly had a lot of blacktail characteristics to them. If I had shot one I certainly wouldn’t have been able to call it a blacktail. I’ve also seen people shoot “blacktails” with long white rope tails and black tips west of the cascades who get upset when you tell them their blacktail is really a mule deer. The reality of it all is that there is so much hybridization, which is why I-5 has been identified as a border for “pure” blacktails in Washington and Oregon


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[WKR]

There are genetically pure blacktail east of Interstate 5
But alot of deer in California are hybrid
When you get into some of the x zones is when you get a true mule deer, especially the migratory herds that travel between CA and NV

This is for northern California, down south there are more sub species

 

[cacklercrazy]

Found it! (MDF map)
View attachment 541210

That map might be for B and C ,or P And Y, but it doesn't reflect the true genetics of our deer herds. The deer In the x zones don't look like the deer in the foothills of the D zones.

 

[Greenbelt]

On no, not this topic again.
Fish and wildlife call deer in D and C blacktail

If a deer genetically tests 90/10 blacktail to mule deer what is it?

I was raised in the mountains of c zone and still hunt there. We only hunt Mule deer.

 

[Banded_spooney]

I was raised in the mountains of c zone and still hunt there. We only hunt Mule deer.

So which of the deer I posted pictures of are mule deer?

 

[Banded_spooney]

I was raised in the mountains of c zone and still hunt there. We only hunt Mule deer.

I’ll let the biologists at DFW make my argument

 

[BRTreedogs]

My thoughts, a pure blacktail throws a smaller rack, so in areas where the 2 species overlap(which they seem to do a lot in California) and when the “species” comes into question for trophy purposes, you would have to call those hybrids mule deer rather than blacktail. Believe me I saw a lot of “mule deer” east of the cascade crest in Washington that clearly had a lot of blacktail characteristics to them. If I had shot one I certainly wouldn’t have been able to call it a blacktail. I’ve also seen people shoot “blacktails” with long white rope tails and black tips west of the cascades who get upset when you tell them their blacktail is really a mule deer. The reality of it all is that there is so much hybridization, which is why I-5 has been identified as a border for “pure” blacktails in Washington and Oregon


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This is basically my thoughts.
Mule deer guys don't really care.
Its the guys that want to pass a cross as a BT for trophy reasons that get all frothed up.

 

[68Plexi]

This is basically my thoughts.
Mule deer guys don't really care.
Its the guys that want to pass a cross as a BT for trophy reasons that get all frothed up.

This guy agrees, so I guess that makes me a mule deer guy. I don’t care what the Sierra Nevada west slope deer are specifically classified as, they are small, difficult to hunt and a completely different experience than the eastern slope mulies I chase.

I’m my neck of the woods the east and west slope deer summer in the same ranges so I’m sure there is some crossbreeding going on.


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[SDHNTR]

That map might be for B and C ,or P And Y, but it doesn't reflect the true genetics of our deer herds. The deer In the x zones don't look like the deer in the foothills of the D zones.

Not really true any more. They can now use DNA testing. Kill a buck outside the boundary that you think is BT. Get it tested. If deemed BT, you can enter it.

 

[Banded_spooney]

Not really true any more. They can now use DNA testing. Kill a buck outside the boundary that you think is BT. Get it tested. If deemed BT, you can enter it.

Yep, and I know of a couple not high profile C zone bucks that qualified pope and young if they were deemed black tails. I can’t say with certainty but they were rumored to have been tested and successfully submitted as blacktail. I personally trust the source.

I know of non typical buck around 190” killed in the same area very quietly that was tested but came back a hybrid.

I’ll probably never kill a buck big enough for book and if I do I won’t test it or enter it. But as far as I’m concerned, if I’m in an area that DFW says is ‘primarily Columbia blacktail’ and I kill a bomber buck that has a blacktail rear end, I’ll mount it and proudly boast to my friends I killed a big blacktail.

 

[SouthPaw]

What say you about this California buck. Columbia blacktail, or Hybrid mulie (he lives in a 'gray area')


?

 

[Andrew12gauge]

I would call him a muley or a hybrid


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[Lou (Louis)]

Blacktail or hybrid.
His “mustache” stops at his lip. Muleys’ drop below their lip
Beautiful buck!

 

[HappyHuntr]

There are definitely no Miley’s on the coast but there are black tail’s basically everywhere

 

[HappyHuntr]

Muleys not Miley’s freeking auto type

 

[HappyHuntr]

For those who voted coast only. One of these is off 20 below clear lake the other two are Sierra foothills. Tell me which one is a blacktail

The one with velvet is definitely a blacktail

 

[HappyHuntr]

First one is definitely a muley

 

[Banded_spooney]

@MotoHunter39 @Lou (Louis) It's a trick question, those three pictures were taken within 1/4 of one another. The first and third buck are resident deer and the middle one migrated in after the Bear fire. -- These are all D zone bucks in what most here are claiming is mule deer-only territory.

 

[Lou (Louis)]

@MotoHunter39 @Lou (Louis) It's a trick question, those three pictures were taken within 1/4 of one another. The first and third buck are resident deer and the middle one migrated in after the Bear fire. -- These are all D zone bucks in what most here are claiming is mule deer-only territory.

That is really cool