Co point banking revisited…

[def90]

Sure they will have the same opportunity as kids their exact same age which will be next to zero. If you don’t think those units you are so proud of using your 1-4 points won’t be affected by point creep you are wrong. Soon it will 2-5 for the same tag and will continue to go up. More people then ever are coming out west and more then ever are buying points. My kids are 7-5-3. By the time they can hunt those middle tier units will be out of reach for them.

What I fail to understand is someone who has burned points every 3/5 years is so against point banking but in the end you would have hunted those units as many or more times then someone who chose to build points (maybe chasing a tough unit or maybe because of some other reason) and then used a banking system.

If a unit takes 5 points (which likely has gone up from 2-3) over 25 years you hunted it 4-5 times at least. A 25 point guy would get to hunt it 3 times.

As an Utah resident I drew a mid tier archery deer tag in 2010 with 6pts (was in the bonus draw for the extra tags). That same tag today 13 years later requires 12 to be in the bonus draw.

Young kids have no chance

Kids have 100% preference in the 2nd draw.

 

[golfbum]

I’m officially checking out of this thread.

Because I have a differing opinion then most here, I should get my kids out of hunting, and am self centered…..

I personally am not chasing a unit and looking for an out. I have enough points in Colorado when I want to go.

That doesn’t change the fact I think something needs to change.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Like it has been said before, banking is a bad idea. Maybe it will offer “outs” for high point holders, but with added creep for all others. This is still unproven, most guys who have waited 20 years aren’t quitting now id wager. As a medium point holder in Co I think it’s dumb, so I could hunt a 1 point unit 3+ times in a row, and it won’t affect creep? Come on. It absolutely will make lower point units creep, then we have a system that will keep people from a tag for several years? But this will help somehow? Let’s be real Otc, at least otc archery is gone in co in a couple years, so then we will make all archery units creep into where you have to wait a few years to bow hunt… it’s stupid

 

[Hnthrdr]

I still wish a person could apply for 10 hunt codes per species, and those are the ONLY ten they are eligible to purchase via any means.

Give people an incentive to scout and learn a unit or two, and make the odds of grabbing a reissue much friendlier.

That’s an interesting thought I would actually say it should be more restrictive, like 4 unit choices a year per species and you only have access to tags in those 4 you applied for that year

 

[def90]

Looking at stats on Toprut.com Unit 201 needed 26 points for residents to draw and 31 points for non residents for 1st rifle.

In 2021 there were 23 hunters total in 201 for rifle 1 and they had a 26.1 % success rate with 0 bulls, 4 cows and 2 juveniles.

Looking at the harvest results there were zero bulls taken during all 4 rifle seasons.

If the stats on Toprut are correct then why is this unit worth 26 points? What am I missing?

Do people just look at how many points a unit takes to draw and decide that's the best unit and they are going to wait until they get that unit as well?

Do people hunt this unit after waiting 26 years and walk away on shots just because they think there might be something bigger tomorrow and walking away with nothing is better than second guessing if you could have gotten something bigger?

 

[Hnthrdr]

Looking at stats on Toprut.com Unit 201 needed 26 points for residents to draw and 31 points for non residents for 1st rifle.

In 2021 there were 23 hunters total in 201 for rifle 1 and they had a 26.1 % success rate with 0 bulls, 4 cows and 2 juveniles.

Looking at the harvest results there were zero bulls taken during all 4 rifle seasons.

If the stats on Toprut are correct then why is this unit worth 26 points? What am I missing?

Do people just look at how many points a unit takes to draw and decide that's the best unit and they are going to wait until they get that unit as well?

Do people hunt this unit after waiting 26 years and walk away on shots just because they think there might be something bigger tomorrow and walking away with nothing is better than second guessing if you could have gotten something bigger?

Well reporting kills is not mandatory in Co all that is voluntary information so take it with a grain of salt.
Next I think a lot of guys who wait 26 years are after a specific type of mature bull, and some will probably eat tags instead of just killing any bull.

Never hunted 201, but my best friend called for his dad about 6 years ago in the unit, his father is limited mobility, but he called in 4+ 320-350 bulls in easily accessible terrain. Ran into muzzy hunters that wouldn’t leave the road and weren’t into animals, you still have to hunt in those units but the bull/cow ratio and age class of bulls is why it is worth 26 points. And the fact the issue a handful of tags for all combined season every year so pressure is almost nonexistent

 

[Rich M]

The only group more self centered than hunters, is hunters with points.

I disagree.

If you sit out of the game for 10 years with an end goal, similar to investing for retirement while the others go on vacation with lesser units. Like the grasshopper and the ant.

Then the guys who have no respect for someone waiting those 10 years begin to demand their opportunity to hunt the 10 pt unit without the sacrifice involved.

The entitled generation are more than willing to step in front of anyone who has been sacrificing for stuff.

 

[Lytro]

I disagree.

If you sit out of the game for 10 years with an end goal, similar to investing for retirement while the others go on vacation with lesser units. Like the grasshopper and the ant.

Then the guys who have no respect for someone waiting those 10 years begin to demand their opportunity to hunt the 10 pt unit without the sacrifice involved.

The entitled generation are more than willing to step in front of anyone who has been sacrificing for stuff.

You don’t think a lot of high preference point holders are drawing second choice or hunting OTC most years?

That’s what bothers me. I think you should go to 0 any time you hold a tag. That would change point creep faster than anything in CO. On the resident side at least.

 

[cnelk]

You don’t think a lot of high preference point holders are drawing second choice or hunting OTC most years?

Of course they are. They are playing by the rules set forth by the CPW, so why not?

 

[UncleBone]

A lot has already been said here that I agree with. As someone new to Elk hunting, I understand why people who have been saving points for 10+ years would be upset if there were a change in the system that affected them. However, there is obviously a need for change, or we wouldn't all be here discussing it, and CPW, wouldnt suggest it as well.

I don't mind having to save up points for a few years to hunt a little better of a unit, but it doesn't make any sense to me, to allow OTC tags of any kind, in a unit that requires even 1 point to hunt in any other season. I think OTC should be eliminated, except for residents.
All non residents who get an A LIst tag, whether it be a 2nd choice, leftover or otc, should lose at least 5 points, if not all.
Charge residents a point, or no PP if they have 0 and draw A list 2nd choice, etc.
Allocate more youth tags to start, quit giving them preference in the 2nd draw.
Cap NR tags of all kinds to 10 to 20% to start. 2nd draw should be for residents only, and leftovers should be on sale for Rs 1 to 3 days before NRs.
If I have to pay $100 for a bull tag, I will. We all know it isn't about the hunter or hunting experience for CPW at this point though. They want to make as much money of NRs as possible, residents be damned.

 

[UncleBone]

Of course they are. They are playing by the rules set forth by the CPW, so why not?

Don't hate the player...

 

[Lytro]

Of course they are. They are playing by the rules set forth by the CPW, so why not?

Obviously. I did the same when I was a CO resident and it didn’t cost $1300/yr to hunt both deer and elk on mediocre tags. Lol

It was a response to the the guy saying people are basically patiently waiting while others go on vacation in lesser units.

 

[sndmn11]

Looking at stats on Toprut.com Unit 201 needed 26 points for residents to draw and 31 points for non residents for 1st rifle.

In 2021 there were 23 hunters total in 201 for rifle 1 and they had a 26.1 % success rate with 0 bulls, 4 cows and 2 juveniles.

Looking at the harvest results there were zero bulls taken during all 4 rifle seasons.

If the stats on Toprut are correct then why is this unit worth 26 points? What am I missing?

Do people just look at how many points a unit takes to draw and decide that's the best unit and they are going to wait until they get that unit as well?

Do people hunt this unit after waiting 26 years and walk away on shots just because they think there might be something bigger tomorrow and walking away with nothing is better than second guessing if you could have gotten something bigger?

There's no regular rifle bull hunt codes...

The early season either sex hunt code kills bulls.

 

[Rich M]

You don’t think a lot of high preference point holders are drawing second choice or hunting OTC most years?

That’s what bothers me. I think you should go to 0 any time you hold a tag. That would change point creep faster than anything in CO. On the resident side at least.

Im sure some are. 2nd choice tags aren’t exactly the “trophy hunts” folks want.

As a NR, when i dont draw 1st choice i don’t hunt. Dont want no stinking 2nd choice or leftover tag, it is an all or nothing prospect. I’m not likely to be happy with an OTC or other high tag count kind of hunt.

I have to wait 3 yrs for a 3-day hunt here, not hard to wait 5-10 for something better. Yeah, cant go every year. That’s okay w me, my rights dont trump yours.

 

[Hnthrdr]

 

[southLA]

Ironic that it will mostly hurt all the news guys that the Instafluencers are bringing into the game for CPW huh?

 

[cnelk]

Bottom line is the CPW doesn’t really care about Point Creep. Sure they know it’s an issue, only because they’ve heard it from hunters.

I’d be really really surprised if much of anything changes. Too much money at stake to lose that cash cow.

 

[wind gypsy]

Point banking and point averaging, both terrible ideas.

Would be interesting if they stopped letting anyone with an antlered tag keep preference points. Would benefit me but I can see how it would be frustrating for a resident who wants to hunt every year and still have a chance at a somewhat mid tier unit occassionally.

 

[ColoradoV]

The power point presentation the commission will see before they vote today makes it very clear banking is not a good thing for most hunters.

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2023/May/Item.20ppt-Presentation_Preference_Point_Banking_PWC_May_2023_Meeting_Meeting_Version-Amanda_Biedermann-DNR.pdf

 

[CoHiCntry]

Like it has been said before, banking is a bad idea. Maybe it will offer “outs” for high point holders, but with added creep for all others. This is still unproven, most guys who have waited 20 years aren’t quitting now id wager. As a medium point holder in Co I think it’s dumb, so I could hunt a 1 point unit 3+ times in a row, and it won’t affect creep? Come on. It absolutely will make lower point units creep, then we have a system that will keep people from a tag for several years? But this will help somehow? Let’s be real Otc, at least otc archery is gone in co in a couple years, so then we will make all archery units creep into where you have to wait a few years to bow hunt… it’s stupid

It would be interesting to see the data from the last time Colorado did point banking. Obviously a lot has changed since then and point creep has gotten way worse. It would still be interesting to see how many took advantage of it, how it affected mid and low point areas etc. I'm guessing it didn't make much of a wave.