Copper/Lead on public land.

[SmokeNFeathers]

Death by a thousand cuts

Glad to see RMEF and Sportsmans Alliance unified on this one

 

[Idaboy]

Again, the OP posted an article about lead toxicity.

There is a substantial amount of science about this issue, and the non government, non partisan, association The Wildlife Society (science journal for wildlife biologist) who study this problem have position statements about this.. POLITICS ASIDE, less lead is going to serve an ecosystem better in the long run....I have no problem spending money on my federal duck stamp, and no problem buying lead free ammo.

Extraneous polical comments aside, let's follow the science....I don't think this is any spy novel conspiracy to run me out of hunting....lets move on

https://www.nps.gov/pinn/learn/nature/upload/Hunt%202009_Lead%20Bullet%20Fragments%20in%20Venison%20from%20Rifle%20Killed%20Deer%20%20Potential%20for%20Human%20Dietary%20Exposure-3.pdf

https://wildlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/FactSheet-Pb_FINAL.pdf

 

[taskswap]

Please post a link to the article you like about this topic from your preferred media outlets.

I did in my original post. The Safari Club's post was pretty informative. They picked up on some of the nuances in the case too, like the FWS paying CBD's costs, renewing the CBD's war chest...

 

[Idaboy]

While copper bullets may not add significantly to the price of a hunt, you probably missed the part about "recreational shooting".

If you go onto public land to do a bit of handgun practice and are forced to use "non-lead", the cost is significantly more.

More to the point....why? Has there been some amount of identifiable/quantifiable harm to wildlife in these areas by lead left from bullets? If the goal is protection of wildlife, then share the research.

Effects of lead from ammunition on birds and other wildlife: A review and update

Poisoning of wild birds following ingestion of lead from ammunition has long been recognised and considerable recent research has focused on terrestrial birds, including raptors and scavengers. This paper builds upon previous reviews and finds that both ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Dos Perros]

I'm genuinely curious where the line is drawn for folks here.Though I might regret it : ) I don't spend my time researching this stuff, but it appears to be settled science that lead in bullets was largely to blame for deaths of the Cali condor. Perhaps that's not true.

So my question is do you think the gov should ban hunting with lead in bullets in areas where condors eat the carcasses and it kills them or is it hands off my lead bullets regardless of the science and screw those birds?

Is the proposed ban only within the historic range of the condor?

 

[Idaboy]

RMEF presentation

Decrease hemoglobin production Replace calcium in bone Slow reaction times Decrease brain function Slow liver and kidney function Renal Failure Decrease muscle mass Blindness Many other issues N= 87 Raven Nests Southern Grand Teton Nation Park National Elk Refuge Jackson Raven

prezi.com

 

[Gutshotem]

I know a wildlife biologist who's career has been with birds (30 plus years)...

Because of Condors and eagles he's VERY opposed to hunting with lead.

Personally he's very pro gun/conservative. Shoots a lot of lead at paper and steel.

Is he also VERY opposed to windmills?

 

[jimh406]

I did in my original post. The Safari Club's post was pretty informative. They picked up on some of the nuances in the case too, like the FWS paying CBD's costs, renewing the CBD's war chest...

Of course, The Safari Club is not a "media outlet" and has minimal reach. My point, you are slamming Fox with no real media alternative. This story would probably not even be a thread on here if it weren't for the "typical Fox". Most of us would prefer a poorly written article over no story.

 

[Idaboy]

Is he also VERY opposed to windmills?

The topic was lead....

 

[Rich M]

Monolithic non lead aren't significantly more expensive and in some cases are less expensive than high bc bullets.

I pay about $0.30-$0.50/each for most of my target & hunting bullets (same). But will buy em when on sale.

Mono's cost more and don't shoot as well outta my gun. Old style cup & core shoot the best.

lead weights on tires put more lead out than bullets I guess the liberals will have us eating through tires next.

They don't use lead weights on tires anymore - think it is zinc. I used to pic tire weights up when found and the ones I'm finding now aren't lead.

 

[Laelkhunter]

So what are the folks supposed to use in their .22 lr firearms?

 

[jimh406]

So what are the folks supposed to use in their .22 lr firearms?

It's not popular, but there is lead free .22 ammo.

 

[taskswap]

Of course, The Safari Club is not a "media outlet" and has minimal reach. My point, you are slamming Fox with no real media alternative. This story would probably not even be a thread on here if it weren't for the "typical Fox". Most of us would prefer a poorly written article over no story.

If you would prefer an AP link? As far as I know they were the very first to publish about it, on the lawsuit that started it all:

Lawsuit planned over hunting, fishing at US wildlife refuges

BOISE, Idaho (AP) — The Trump administration is violating the Endangered Species Act by expanding hunting and fishing by 3,600 square miles (9,300 square kilometers) on the national wildlife...

apnews.com

Their articles aren't very sensational, but AP is pretty consistent about reporting things like this. They've been following lead bans for awhile:

Hunting, fishing groups fume over lead restrictions

Some hunting, shooting and fishing organizations are fuming over pending lead restrictions on ammunition and fishing tackle for some federal lands approved through executive action by the Obama...

apnews.com

If you want writing that's still neutral and factual but with a bit better context provided, Reuters also regularly covers environmental policy and lawsuits like this with longer-form content:

Lawsuit takes aim at Trump-era rule expanding hunting grounds

Environmentalists on Monday accused the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service of imperiling hundreds of vulnerable species when it expanded hunting and fishing on 147 national wildlife refuges and fish hatcheries under President Donald Trump.

www.reuters.com

If Fox actually was the only outlet reporting things like this, I would want their reporting to be accurate and informative even more. I'm not trying to convince a group of hunters whether decisions like this are good or bad. It's the swing vote that counts, and Fox loses a ton of credibility with folks that haven't made up their minds and might see otherwise. I'm happy to be counted out of "most of us" on that one. I very much want them to do better.

 

[Gutshotem]

The topic was lead....

And the broader topic noted in the OP and several responses is the adminstration ruling through regulations and executive fiat. Some of which (like the protection of raptors through lead bans) are completely contradictory to others. It's not difficult to understand but i suppose it is to defend.

 

[49ereric]

lead weights on tires put more lead out than bullets I guess the liberals will have us eating through tires next.

Lead wheel weights were banned in Minnesota in 2016.

 

[kentuckybowman]

I pay about $0.30-$0.50/each for most of my target & hunting bullets (same). But will buy em when on sale.

Mono's cost more and don't shoot as well outta my gun. Old style cup & core shoot the best.



They don't use lead weights on tires anymore - think it is zinc. I used to pic tire weights up when found and the ones I'm finding now aren't lead.

Zinc toxicity is bad too.

 

[BigK421]

What a great leader, I mean he really has his finger on the pulse of the most important issues facing America. I assume since this clown has already solved illegal immigration, economic collapse, health care reform, China/Russia diplomacy……

he can now shift his lazer- like focus on lead ammo. Wildlife refuges, and throw in schools, will be lead free zones. problem solved! Keep up the good work Joey and you’ll get sprinkles on your ice cream cone.

I bet he does ask for sprinkles on his ice cream, but I see him as more of a pudding guy. "Where's my pudding," as he stumbles around trying to find the bathroom. I bet he's gotten lost more than once in the white house. SS agents on the radio, "Has anyone seen the eagle lately? Last I heard, he was in the east wing mumbling something about pudding."

 

[Idaboy]

And the broader topic noted in the OP and several responses is the adminstration ruling through regulations and executive fiat. Some of which (like the protection of raptors through lead bans) are completely contradictory to others. It's not difficult to understand but i suppose it is to defend.

No disrespect...but really not following you..
" Completely contradictory" to what?
"It's not difficult to understand" what is difficult to understand?

 

[Rich M]

Zinc toxicity is bad too.

Thats why we take zinc supplements when we get sick. (Or silver). Not being sarcastic.

Doesnt melt nice like lead either.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Thats why we take zinc supplements when we get sick. (Or silver). Not being sarcastic.

Doesnt melt nice like lead either.

Like many supplements zinc is necessary, but zinc toxicity is very possible. Symptoms, nausea, vomiting, lethargy, and fatigue. Not deadly but not pleasant. Don't eat lead or zinc tire weights.