In the Field Distance Limit

[Fowl Play]

Hey fellas,

Little campfire discussion here cause I’m curious. Sorry if this comes across as a humble brag —- not my intention — although it is nice to see hard work pay off. I started shooting at extended ranges last year, practicing hard. I can confidently hold a 6-7” group at 80 yards with my hunting setup. I can no longer shoot more than 4-5 arrows at the same dot at 60 or I will loose a vane or nock. I think I am going to limit my field shooting to 60 though for elk. 80 just seems like a long flight time + performance loss for stuff to go wrong in real world conditions. I might throw a 2nd arrow at an animal at 80, if given the opportunity, but not the first.

Thoughts on this? I’m curious what % of your max effective range you guys use in the field.

 

[wildwilderness]

It’s all situational. An animal has no guarantee to hold still like a target. The more aware the animal is, the shorter the ethical distance.

Other things out of control, especially wind or twigs etc can also ruin the shot. Respect the animal. Be a good example of an ethical bow hunter.

Everyone’s personal ethical range is different, so keep practicing and make good choices!

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

I tell clients 50% of your 6” group distance is a good rule of thumb. There’s way more factors in elk hunting than target. Time, branches, shooting lanes, movement of animal, adrenaline, amount of time ur holding at full draw, being out of breath, alertness of the animal. All those factors completely ruin shots.

Even 6” groups is a pretty big window with 1 step
of an elk, and wounded elk are tough animals to find. This is why you see so many people looking for lost animals every year,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sndmn11]

Hey fellas,

humble brag —-

I might throw a 2nd arrow at an animal at 80, if given the opportunity, but not the first.

Thoughts on this? I’m curious what % of your max effective range you guys use in the field.

It's weird to read someone throw out the humble brag, then mention second arrows.

30-80 yards depending on species, wind, float, terrain, angle and alertness of animal. I might be just as comfortable at 80yds shooting at a pronghorn on a perfect day as I am at 30 yds on an elk in timber and rain.

 

[MattB]

It's weird to read someone throw out the humble brag, then mention second arrows.

The OP mentioned flight which is real consideration and unfortunately a significant component in wounding. Lots of guys have executed perfect shots that resulted in wounds because the animal was not in the same place when the arrow arrived.

 

[sndmn11]

Lots of guys have executed perfect shots that resulted in wounds because the animal was not in the same place when the arrow arrived.

I can't see wounding an animal and executing a perfect shot as being the same thing when the end goal is to kill. At least one something in the scenario of wounding was imperfect. I think in your example, at least that one something would be the decision to shoot when the vitals will be in an unknown location when the arrow arrives. There's nothing wrong with choosing not to shoot in those situations.

 

[MattB]

I can't see wounding an animal and executing a perfect shot as being the same thing when the end goal is to kill. At least one something in the scenario of wounding was imperfect. I think in your example, at least that one something would be the decision to shoot when the vitals will be in an unknown location when the arrow arrives. There's nothing wrong with choosing not to shoot in those situations.

Shot selection and shot execution of two completely different things.

 

[sndmn11]

Shot selection and shot execution of two completely different things.

...and they contribute to the title of this thread.

"Perfect shot execution" and wounding an animal are antonyms.

 

[MattB]

...and they contribute to the title of this thread.

"Perfect shot execution" and wounding an animal are antonyms.

They aren’t, but I am not going to debate this with you. If you want to continue, maybe your wife will listen?

 

[sndmn11]

They aren’t, but I am not going to debate this with you. If you want to continue, maybe your wife will listen?

What does the comment about my wife mean?

If you don't want to discuss, why comment?

In the discussion of in the field distance limit, the title of the post, the terminal end is all that matters. What hunting scenario is the goal to wound the animal and walk away saying it was perfect?

 

[Tilzbow]

Hey fellas,

80 just seems like a long flight time + performance loss for stuff to go wrong in real world conditions. I might throw a 2nd arrow at an animal at 80, if given the opportunity, but not the first.

Thoughts on this? I’m curious what % of your max effective range you guys use in the field.

Flight time is definitely an issue but performance loss at 80 yards is a non-issue assuming a modern compound with a moderate weight arrow setup and good broadhead. I’m going off memory but an arrow only slows about 15% at 100 yards compared to its speed at the bow so a 450 grain arrow that’s flying 280 FPS at the bow will still be traveling about 240 FPS at long distance. That’s more than enough energy to pass through an elk and is way faster than any traditional bow shooting the same weight arrow.

 

[Rich M]

Ive lost every deer ive shot at greater than 30 yards. They move…

My limit is 25 yds. Im not out west.

 

[Fowl Play]

I can't see wounding an animal and executing a perfect shot as being the same thing when the end goal is to kill. At least one something in the scenario of wounding was imperfect. I think in your example, at least that one something would be the decision to shoot when the vitals will be in an unknown location when the arrow arrives. There's nothing wrong with choosing not to shoot in those situations.

I think what he was trying to get at is you can make a “perfectly aimed” shot for the moment in time of release, that can then all go to shit depending on how the animal reacts to the sound of your bow firing. There are decisions on how/when you shoot that can help to mitigate that somewhat, but increasing flight time will hurt you in this regard. Thankfully I really haven’t seen this to be an issue with bulls during the rut. But I swear spooky whitetail does can react like ninjas. I keep shots under 40 and ensure their heads are up on whitetails.

 

[sndmn11]

I think what he was trying to get at is you can make a “perfectly aimed” shot for the moment in time of release, that can then all go to shit depending on how the animal reacts to the sound of your bow firing.

Possibly, apparently we won't know.

Doesn't the animal's behavior play into the distance limit?

This forum fills up fast in the fall with perfectly aimed and placed shots that don't result in dead animals. There's a few right now. The instances where the animal is seen alive later ALL turn out to be poorly placed shots that the person was clueless on where they aimed. The all seem to describe feeling great about the shots; "perfect release" "right behind the shoulder" "double lunged" etc.

I think it's worth considering that how the archer subjectively feels about the shot "execution" should be left at the target range. A hunter can't will an animal to die because they did all the things they practiced in a controlled environment, on a flat range, stress free, with field points, and 4/5 times during that end.

In my eyes, all that matters is the objective result of where that broadhead ends up. Whether it started as "perfectly executed" or not is pointless when the result is indisputable.

 

[Billy Goat]

I think it's hard for a broadhead to end up where it's supposed to without a properly executed shot, so I think that's one step of many to the end result we are looking for.

Lots of other factors come into play, some are in the archers control, some aren't.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Like stated, limits rest on skill, practice, environmental factors, and animal’s behavior. My archery experience is exclusively with a bow on elk. You realize that there is a big difference in how alert some bulls are when they come in. Difference if I’m solo calling or have a caller. All sorts of things that can make or break a shot opportunity. If an animal jumps the string hard, I’m not sure I would call it a perfect shot since likely I didn’t hit what I wanted. For me I shoot out to 80 frequently, but real hunting range is somewhere around 65 and trying to consider all outside factors

 

[JeffRaines]

If I'm at the point where I'm losing vanes/nocks/arrows at that distance every group then I'm comfortable shooting an animal at that distance in perfect conditions. Meaning an animal unaware of my presence, calm, not much wind, and no brush. Change any of those factors and that distance gets closer.

 

[The Guide]

I run 2 different bows. One I have set at 40# with 100 grain and the other is 70# with 125 grain, both with a 31" draw. The TOF difference between the two is quite apparent. They are equal to about 50 yards but at 65 yards my little bow really drops off (seems like 2x the time to impact and like 2.5' lower than 50 yards) and doesn't fully penetrate the target with a broadhead so my MER with it is kept at 50 yards and in. My 70# is still full penetration at 80 yards with broadheads and the TOF is barely longer than @ 50 yards but my accuracy keeps me at 65 yards MER. These ranges would be for open areas, no to little wind, and relaxed unaware animals. Once you start factoring in other influences, your MER for your gear and your skills might be diminished by as much as 50%. Each shot is a judgment call on what your MER is for that situation. You should never go into it thinking I'm good to xx yards every time unless you like wounding game and losing arrows.

Jay

 

[sndmn11]

I think it's hard for a broadhead to end up where it's supposed to without a properly executed shot, so I think that's one step of many to the end result we are looking for.

Lots of other factors come into play, some are in the archers control, some aren't.

This will be a good discussion.

In your mind, when does your decision making of shoot/pass shift from archer focused to animal and/or environmental? Is it linear or does it shift back and forth?

 

[Billy Goat]

This will be a good discussion.

In your mind, when does your decision making of shoot/pass shift from archer focused to animal and/or environmental? Is it linear or does it shift back and forth?

I don't know that it really shifts.

Whitetail hunting you can have an animal move 10 inches or more in the time it takes an arrow to get 20 yards.

So I think in my mind it is largely based around the animal always, then it's like a check the box, can the arrow get there? Obstructions? That's a yes or no. Can I make that shot? That should be a yes or if any doubt then a no.


I think a lot of it just comes from experience.

I have had one elk that I hit and didn't recover, it was 47 yards I think. He was standing, didn't know I was there, thought he was relaxed, stepped forward right as the shot broke and I hit back. Just a timing deal.


I don't really feel limited in my personal abilities, it's all situation for me. I'm not taking shots at 100 yards either, it has nothing to do with my ability, it's how much can happen in the time it takes for the arrow to get there.

Well, I did shoot a groundhog at 99 two years ago. I hate those things, should one animal matter more than another? Probably not, but I want those things dead however I can get them.