Kifaru Megatarp or Seekoutside Lil bugout?

[mattfish]

I posted a similar question here several weeks ago. I have narrowed it down to these shelters.I will probably share my shelter with one other guy.My thought was that if we bought the base/tarp/base of the LiL Bugout we would each have separate shelters if needed. We could also use the base to base configuration as well. The mega tarp would eventually cost less I think. We both agreed that a stove will come with us on this initial trip to dry any wet clothes or gear.Both shelters will accommodate stoves. Both shelters will require either a nest or a bivy……..This is where I get cross-eyed thinking about it all. Which system would be best? The Kifaru would be a castle for 1 but will accommodate 2. I was thinking if I got the megatarp I could purchase a Borah bivay like Hells Canyon just reviewed. I am strictly a bowhunter and being "green" at this most of my hunts will take place in Archery season in various states. I have purchased a Duplex Timberline 2 pack.My first hunt will be next year but I want to get my gear and refine the use of all the systems. Im not a last minute type of guy. I also would rather spend more money upfront for quality products then end up buying twice. So going through the weights it appears the Lil Bugout system will weigh more depending on how we use it. I know that comfort is a relative thing but I want my shelter to be warm and dry as well as bombproof. If there are any suggestions or tweaks to my ideas I would absolutely appreciate hearing them! I have already been given great advice from the members here and truly appreciate those of you who went before me and are willing to share your knowledge.

 

[Shrek]

The megatarp is pretty castleish for two. If you had two guys in the mega and if you rolled over but stayed on your sleeping pad you wouldn't be dangerously close to big spoon little spoon. Unless you are NBA type tall the is ample room for gear and two hunters. It's as bombproof as you can buy in an ultralight tarp.

 

[HellsCanyon]

After spending quite a bit of time in my LBO and Borah bivy, I'm fairly confident I would get it again. The only thing I'd be interested in trading it for would be to try out a Supertarp. I'm of the mindset that for early season hunting, I want to have my own shelter where I can keep my own mess of gear strewn about me to remind me of the comforts of home... Seriously though I don't really like sharing a shelter and the LBO is great for that. I'll be using it with my hunting partner this Nov likely in the base+tarp+base configuration so we'll see how that goes.

Here's what I like about it:
Pretty lightweight, not the lightest but not the heaviest and I think the modularity of it comes at a weight point. Certainly for the room it's not heavy.
You can pitch it to be really wind/rain resistant being a 3 sided shelter, or you can pitch it with the back stake loop in the air to help with warm temps and ventilation.
Easy to pitch and is super adapter (as any floorless shelter would be I think).

What I don't like:
While there's lot of room to stash gear and what not, there's really very little 'person' space. Meaning that if you want to sit up in the shelter or kneel, you're really limited to the center of it. There's a way I like to pitch it to expand that person space using some guy out points but still it's pretty minimal.
I haven't experimented with it yet and it'd require more guy lines, but I'd like to see it pitched with all sides off the ground to see how much usable space I can stretch out of it. I think that is the one advantage the supertarp or megatarp would have over it. That and their materials are supposed to be a bit more heavy duty.

If you want one shelter for two people, I'd pick the megatarp. If you want two shelters for two people, the LBO+tarp+LBO is going to be hard to beat. If you want a solo shelter, I'd look hard at the Supertarp though I've only seen them in person never slept under one. Sounds like for your hunting scenarios you really can't go wrong with any of them. I will say that the Borah bivy I have with M90 top is NOT windproof and the only time I get cold is when I have a draft coming into my shelter even in 40* temps with a 20* rated quilt. So either plan to get a more wind resistant top bivy material or pitch your shelter to eliminate drafts in those scenarios. You'll learn quickly what works for you and what doesn't!

Mike

 

[Lawnboi]

Why not add the sawtooth to the mix?

If your planning on using a stove the majority of the time I would highly suggest going with whatever is bigger. Something that will allow you to hang clothing up and dry stuff off if that is your desired effect.

IMO there is no perfect shelter, and the inbetweeners just make me want more. So I finally got what I think will make me happy, paratarp for warm non stove trips. 6man tipi for 2-3 guys and a stove on colder trips or trips where we are not moving very much.

 

[mattfish]

thanks for taking the time guys and sharing your thoughts. Mike i really enjoyed your posts about your system. The information you shared is going to help lots of folks decisions and learning curves much smaller. Do you think that if you got the 3 piece vestibule for the LBO it would help keep wind off better? I was trying to consider all options before I buy something. Im starting to realize I need to take the plunge and experiment. I like everyone else just want to be smart about my choices. It is hard to be smart about something you have no experience at!

 

[HellsCanyon]

thanks for taking the time guys and sharing your thoughts. Mike i really enjoyed your posts about your system. The information you shared is going to help lots of folks decisions and learning curves much smaller. Do you think that if you got the 3 piece vestibule for the LBO it would help keep wind off better? I was trying to consider all options before I buy something. Im starting to realize I need to take the plunge and experiment. I like everyone else just want to be smart about my choices. It is hard to be smart about something you have no experience at!

One good thing about the gear you're talking about is their resale value... it's a different story with low quality gear! Experimentation is a must...

Even the LBO base by itself is good at keeping the drafts down if you stake all the loops down and know what direction the wind is prominent from. Just two nights ago I was dealing with 15-20mph winds and didn't have a draft because of the orientation of my pitch.

I haven't checked out the 3 piece vestibule for the LBO yet so can't comment there.

I agree with Lawnboi for sure though. It'd be hard to be a paratarp or a Zpacks Cuben fiber tarp for ultralight solo trip in good weather, then late season to have a bigger shelter with option for a stove. The one reason I went with the LBO over a kifaru tarp is the ability for my hunting partner to get one as well and run the tarp connector with stove. Minimal weight penalty for October/November hunts with wood stove capabilities. I've been doing nothing but solo trips this year but last season was a whole different story. Easier on the wallet too, especially when your partner buys the connecting tarp.

Mike

 

[Ironman8]

I really like the idea of the LBO for the modularity of it. I don't have one yet though, so still sorting through the details like you.

HC, I'm kinda surprised to hear that there's not much room in the LBO. I'm not as tall as you, so it may be more of an issue for you, but from reading the descriptions, I was thinking of different ways I could set it up for different situations...tell me if I'm crazy here....

What I was thinking was this:

Solo in early season: LBO Base (only) OR Base/3pc Vestibule
Solo in late season: LBO Base/3pc Vestibule and stove
2 guys in early season: LBO Base/Base OR Base/3pc Vestibule
2 guys in late season: LBO Base/Tarp/Base with stove OR Base/Base with stove

Do you think there'd be enough room for man and gear in these situations? In particular the 2-man setups?

 

[HellsCanyon]

I really like the idea of the LBO for the modularity of it. I don't have one yet though, so still sorting through the details like you.

HC, I'm kinda surprised to hear that there's not much room in the LBO. I'm not as tall as you, so it may be more of an issue for you, but from reading the descriptions, I was thinking of different ways I could set it up for different situations...tell me if I'm crazy here....

What I was thinking was this:

Solo in early season: LBO Base (only) OR Base/3pc Vestibule
Solo in late season: LBO Base/3pc Vestibule and stove
2 guys in early season: LBO Base/Base OR Base/3pc Vestibule
2 guys in late season: LBO Base/Tarp/Base with stove OR Base/Base with stove

Do you think there'd be enough room for man and gear in these situations? In particular the 2-man setups?

I may not of been clear in what I was trying to say. Your expectations are accurate and for sure doable and even in comfort. What I was mainly concerned about is the amount of headroom you have in the LBO. It has a pretty steep pitch to the back/sides so sleeping and laying down I have room for days. I'm only 6' so not very tall. You could easily sleep someone 6'4" in it. The main issue I'm talking about is if you have to kneel/situp you only have maybe 50% of the square footage to accomplish that in. Not bad really, just something I've noticed. I don't feel cramped in it, but I often times find myself pushing my bivy with pad/quilt towards the back of the shelter during the day so I can have room to gear up while sitting up or kneeling down.

Clear as mud?

Mike

 

[Ironman8]

I may not of been clear in what I was trying to say. Your expectations are accurate and for sure doable and even in comfort. What I was mainly concerned about is the amount of headroom you have in the LBO. It has a pretty steep pitch to the back/sides so sleeping and laying down I have room for days. I'm only 6' so not very tall. You could easily sleep someone 6'4" in it. The main issue I'm talking about is if you have to kneel/situp you only have maybe 50% of the square footage to accomplish that in. Not bad really, just something I've noticed. I don't feel cramped in it, but I often times find myself pushing my bivy with pad/quilt towards the back of the shelter during the day so I can have room to gear up while sitting up or kneeling down.

Clear as mud?

Mike

Gotcha, that makes sense. Well maybe I'll get 60% of the square footage since I'm only 5'8

I'm guessing though that if I'm coming from a traditional tent (BA Lynx Pass 2...which is fairly short) then this will feel like a palace!

 

[HellsCanyon]

Indeed it will feel like you have a lot more room! I can spread out my spotter/tripod, pack, rifle, food bag, clothes stuff sack and still have room for my bivy and to keep my boots close by!

Mike

 

[Justin Crossley]

That is what I really like about sleeping under a tarp Mike.

I always hate trying to take my boots off without getting dirt into my tent. With a tarp shelter I can sit on my pad and get fully dressed without getting out of my shelter.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

When i get back to town i will post on the LBO. I have a whole summer of scouting underneath one.

 

[mattfish]

sreekers i look forward to your thoughts on the LBO. Any thoughts on the base/base as a two man shelter?

 

[Aron Snyder]

Keep in mind that Kifaru is a paying Rokslide sponsor......

 

[Wrongside]

I have a bunch of nights in the LBO. Mainly Base+Vestibule. About half with EdT stove half without, I have one vestibule with a jack and one without. The LBO makes a great little solo shelter with lots of room for gear. Really nice when the weather turns ugly for extended periods... My family of four also used it set up with Base+Tarp+Base on a four day trip this summer. Great setup for that as well. The kids tell me they prefer to be in the same shelter as the gun in the backcountry...

I really like the looks of the MegaTarp, but it's just not as modular.

 

[Xtorminator]

Loved my Mega Tarp this year in the back country. It held up well through the thunder storms, wind and snow. I was able to keep my gear and my hunting partners gear in it and still have enough room to sleep.

 

[fillthefreezer]

Keep in mind that Kifaru is a paying Rokslide sponsor......

in more ways than 1, lol

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

Just to get all of the formalities out of the way....

I have tested more than one piece of equipment for Seek Outside, I am not paid by them, simply some one who spends a lot of time in the woods and has given them feed back. I have written on their blog since last year, and am grateful for the opportunity and exposure. I have submitted articles to other places as well, and will continue to do so as I LOVE testing all forms and facets of gear and doing my best to provide honest feed back. Mods, if you don't want my post on this subject please remove it.

On to the shelters...

I have never used the Megatarp, but would really like to get my hands on one in the relatively near future. So everything I am posting about the Mega is based on observation and conversation with people in the know. But, based on extensive use with the LBO system as a whole, it's almost like comparing apples to oranges here. The LBO is designed to be very modular and all parts work as a system so that when used in the Base/Tarp/Base set up the floor space is similar to their six man. In the simple Base form like what HC has posted, the Base is probably most similar to the Super Tarp. Beyond that, well the only similarity is really shape when in the Base/Tarp/Base when compared directly to the Megatarp/Annex.

Kifaru's offerings in the Tarp world are based on entering and exiting from the front primarily and front and back with the Megatarp. The SO Lil Bug Out is built around entering from the side where the zippers are built in for connection points.

In a Kifaru you would sleep with the orientation of the pitch, and with two people in the Mega, it would be ideal for one person to enter and exit one end, and the other exit out the back. In the LBO Base/Base it is possible to sleep either direction and use the entrances/exits accordingly. In the Base/Tarp/Base it is possible to sleep 4 people if gear is not stored inside. So, that means that potentially the whole LBO is a set up is for 4 people rather than the 2 that the MO is looking at. The Base/Base is the best LBO configuration for 2 and will fit most gear as well if guyed out.

Kifaru will have their stove jack at annex end, the Paratarp that I owned for a short period of time was built this way. In the LBO the stove would be located in the center, or in the Base/Base it would be off of the center pole. In the Base/Vestibule the jack could be placed in several locations on the Vestibule side.

The Megatarp can be pitched in multiple ways as some of the pictures that Aron posted when it first when into production show. The LBO bases can be pitched in various ways as well but lets be honest, most tarp based shelters are designed around this concept.

The LBO is also designed with a nest in mind. The Mega is better for someone who prefers a bivy.

Hopefully this information is useful. Megatarp owners, if I haven't done that shelter justice please feel free to correct me.

 

[Ryan Avery]

It's worth mentioning that Kifaru uses a higher quality fabric. Both will work, but the Kifaru will probably last longer and hold it's resell value.

 

[Whisky]

Brother and I were pretty set on getting LBO's to be used together and apart. I think it was a video Mike posted that turned us away, and we ended up getting Megatarps instead. In the video just the base alone looked too small for me, and I also think I like the sleeping orientation of the Mega better. Just a small opening at my "foot" end instead of an entire side wide open.

I have only spent 10 nights under my Mega this Sept so far, so I'm still getting a feel for it. First floorless shelter experience too. Have had it in wind, rain and snow now with some good and some bad. Mostly the bad has been my fault (pitch location and small stakes).

The room in the mega is awesome for one person, and more than adequate for two. With the LBO for two people you are talking about adding more weight than a megatarp. Never pitched an LBO but the Mega is very quick and easy to pop up.

The one thing I dislike about the megatarp is how the material absorbs so much water in the rain. It gets HEAVY when packed up wet. I realize the lines and velcro absorb and hold water. But to me it looks like the tarps absorbs a lot as well.

So far I've been happy with the Megatarp. Still deciding if I like the floorless over a solid 4 season tent....To be determined. Got to spend more time in it.