Letting them lie

[molliesmaster]

In an effort to prevent further derailment of someone's thread and really nice animal, let's start a conversation here about when its a good idea to let an animal lie overnight and when it is best to go in and do your best to make a recovery.


Thanks.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

I think you were spot on in your post on that other thread, but I did not want to comment to derail it any more than it already was. Let's be honest though, a "majority" of people are more willing to let the animal overnight if it's got large head gear even though nobody will admit to it.
Situations are situational and i understand that but some situations you NEED to let them overnight so they have time to expire and other situations you need to give them an hour & go recover the animal.
I just find it sickening that alot of people could care less if they loose some/all meat but as long as they can recover the antlers for their social media post all is ok.

 

[molliesmaster]

I agree, on the whole it seems more popular/consistent for folks to allow certain deer sit overnight versus others of a different quality.

Certainly there are times that someone should let an animal sit over night, I just feel like we have gone too far in that direction. I think people vastly overestimate the probability that they will bump a deer, especially if the shot was good and you have allowed a little quiet for nature to take its course. An hour is more than enough for most of the deer I have found. And I am not bragging when I say that I have quite a large sample size to speak from. Again, I live in the south, we don't punch one tag and end our season, multiple tags and generously long seasons equate to a lot of opportunities to kill deer.

I'd also like to say straight away that I am not criticizing anyone for letting one lay if they feel the need. You have to make that call. What I am hoping is that this thread might begin to educate those who find themselves asking the question when the sun goes down on a successful afternoon's hunt.

 

[JGTWI]

This will be a good discussion. I’m one that probably finds myself being overly cautious when it comes to waiting, but the only two deer that I’ve lost were both archery does that I bumped due to likely not waiting long enough.

The first I think would have absolutely died where she laid if I had waited, and I knew the shot was marginal but thought I’d given enough time. The other I’m less convinced, because the shot evidently was not near as good as I thought it was (low/brisket) and I knew I was in trouble once I got part way in to the track and didn’t find a dead deer yet. She may have very well lived, and we probably would not have found her where she had bedded down and jumped up from.

I hunt first and foremost for the meat so I defiantly don’t want to discount loss due to predators or spoilage, but losing an animal due to a bad shot hooked with bad decision making is gut-wrenching.

I’m looking forward to the responses. But I’m guessing a few hunters out there will have the same ‘PTSD’ from past experiences that I do.

 

[TxxAgg]

I don't think it's wrong or unethical to give an animal extra time because it has a nice set of antlers. There's more at stake so why not be more cautious?

It's ok to disagree, but it doesn't make someone else a lesser hunter because they value antlers as much as meat.

I thought these guys handled it well:

 

[wnelson14]

Totally depends on terrain, what you think about shot placement, tracks, blood trail, arrow recovery. Weather.
Never black and white.

 

[sbaker0029]

Lots of variables for this situation, almost too many variables to ever say one thing works over the other or this is the best way. Just like you can't say exactly how a bullet or broadhead is going to perform every single time, you can have a good idea of how it should be performing given its history.

Same goes for deer tracking. Deer hit with a double lung, tons of blood and all the signs of a "classic" double lung. One deer might travel 40yds in really thick stuff and bed to die, another might hit open field and travel 240yds to find the cover or just fall in the field.
It ultimately comes down to that particular moment, day, shot, deer, and hunter.

All that said to say, I have never left anything overnight. I have searched into the wee hours of the morning after staying put or backing out for a few hours. I've went to eat breakfast or lunch and then went back to track. Never left anything longer than 4-5 hours but that's my situations that I personally have encountered and everyone's situation is different.

Let's say the given scenario is a "classic" double lung and has all the right signs that this deer is more than likely going down very soon and expire shortly.
Things turn into an IF/THEN flow chart.

IF- Shot was made late afternoon 30mins before dark.
Deer runs out of sight.
THEN- I have small window of day light and I'm going to first good sign of blood and marking it then sitting on it for about an hour to hour and half.
THEN- start tracking.
Favored outcume- Find down deer quickly
IF- deer is bumped.
THEN - sit on bumped spot/bed site for another hour or more depending upon blood and deers movement as it ran off.
THEN- check the weather to make sure it isn't going to start raining to complicate things.
THEN - resume tracking and hopefully find deer.

Got a bit wordy sorry about that.

TLDR: every situation is different, make a very genuinely strong effort to recover your game depending on your variables.

 

[TheViking]

I have been very fortunate to have always made good shots on animals thus far in my hunting career (knock on wood). But I am definitely in the camp of giving them time if you don't think you hit them well. I had a friend hit a big bull last year, went in too soon, bumped him, and lost him. They eventually found his carcass that winter (it was a private land, guided hunt) on the neighboring property. He was sick to his stomach forever about it. Unless I see the animal go down, or hear them crash, I give them one hour minimum, and that's based on knowing I placed the bullet, or the arrow where it was supposed to go. I have heard WAY too many horror stories about bumping animals and never recovering them afterwards.

The way I see it, there are two scenarios: you go in early and bump the animal, maybe (probably) never find it. Or you let them lay overnight, a bear, or another predator might get to them first, or the meat might be starting to spoil depending on temps. I am a mountain hunter, so temps are usually pretty cool at night, so odds are the meat is fine the next morning. I'll take the second option, personally.

All that is based on an afternoon shot.

If it was the morning, I'd give them a half a day (4-8hrs), at least. Go try find them a few hours before dark.

 

[Scoot]

One thing that most often don't have a good handle on is the fact that many of our shots simply do not hit where we think they did. ...and, people's confidence level of where the hit was seems pretty unrelated to the actual shot placement! ...and, most people refuse to believe this!

I've seen it dozens and dozens of times: "Right behind the shoulder" and "Perfect shot" and "Maybe two inches back from the crease" were all were bad shots. Some were high, some low, some forward, and many too far back. Often I think it's because of inadequately accounting for how much an animal is quartering towards/away, but regardless of why, it happens. It's certainly happened to me- I'm not immune to it.

Importantly, where we THINK we hit the animal often dictates when and how we go about tracking. People can certainly disagree with me or say I'm full of bull or say they know where they hit an animal on every shot- that's ok. But if you hunt long enough, you'll hit an animal in a spot you were previously sure you didn't hit!

In the end, this relatively poor ability to determine where we hit an animal accurately can cost people animals by not waiting long enough on a poorly hit/gut shot animal. So... unless you're absolutely, positively certain of the hit or you see it drop, I believe you're better off erring on the side of waiting longer. My .02.

 

[MallardSX2]

Just this past weekend I had a guy at our club shoot a deer in the evening and then when they went back in to look for it, they couldn't find it. Guy with a tracking dog showed up late the next morning and when he found the deer, he declared that the meat was bad. Left everything in the woods but the head. I don't agree with what he did, but I wasn't there to make the call.

I offered to help him go look for the deer and he insisted that him and the other 2 members should/could find it and not to come. He took the wrong 2 members that's for sure because it was dead within 150 yards of where he shot it....

Sickens me to even tell that story.

To make it even worse of a story, the last 5 animals he has shot, he has recovered the meat from exactly 1 of the deer. Pisses me off.

 

[S.Clancy]

I've left a couple elk overnight in archery season. I only lost 5-8 lbs of meat off one hind quarter of one. Better than the whole elk if I never found it. I did, however, try to recover each the night before. It became apparent after seeing the blood that my chances would be better in the morning.

 

[S.Clancy]

Just this past weekend I had a guy at our club shoot a deer in the evening and then when they went back in to look for it, they couldn't find it. Guy with a tracking dog showed up late the next morning and when he found the deer, he declared that the meat was bad. Left everything in the woods but the head. I don't agree with what he did, but I wasn't there to make the call.

I offered to help him go look for the deer and he insisted that him and the other 2 members should/could find it and not to come. He took the wrong 2 members that's for sure because it was dead within 150 yards of where he shot it....

Sickens me to even tell that story.

To make it even worse of a story, the last 5 animals he has shot, he has recovered the meat from exactly 1 of the deer. Pisses me off.

I met a guy that shot at a bull @50 yards opening morning (archery), never even went and checked for blood. He found the bull 2 days later 50 YARDS from where he shot at it, perfect heart shot, now bloated up like a freaking balloon just because he could smell it. It was huge bull and he wasted 250+ lbs of meat out of straight laziness. Meanwhile, I had packed cow from the bottom of an absolute hellhole. I was pretty pissed and had some words. The first priority for me is the meat. If I don't get he meat I could really care less about the antlers, they'd just remind me of what a POS I was for not doing my job right

 

[woods89]

I think that generally the only time I'd leave one overnight is a shot behind the diaphragm, just because it can take awhile for them to die. It's really a whole picture call, though.

I'd also like to know how many guys are pickier with shots in the last hour of light. I think I am a little more selective.

 

[S.Clancy]

I think that generally the only time I'd leave one overnight is a shot behind the diaphragm, just because it can take awhile for them to die. It's really a whole picture call, though.

I'd also like to know how many guys are pickier with shots in the last hour of light. I think I am a little more selective.

I am pickier when the light is low and seeing where it hit is tough. One of my bulls was literally the last 3-4 minutes of shooting light. I thought it was perfect, but it was a one lung +liver shot. Bumped that bull in the dark. Luckily the shot was good, he only went about 400 yards after the bump, still had to grid him up tho.

 

[molliesmaster]

I think we can all agree that there are causes and reasons to let one lay overnight.

BUT! And what I'm really driving at is:

Have we swayed too far the other way due to:
-Laziness?
-Haphazard or taking shots beyond our ability?
-Lack of woodsmanship/ability to track a wounded animal?
-A misappropriation of the importance of hunting?
-Social media/tv influence?


It seems that the current status quo is to assume that any hunter that leaves their game overnight is being "responsible" or "mature" in their efforts to find the game. But I would like to contest/challenge that notion and put forward that if you are leaving your game overnight, that you as a hunter have come across a very poor set of circumstances due to poor decision(s) or poor skills or, on the off chance, some very poor luck.

Letting one lay overnight should not be the default that it has come to be, but a last ditch effort.






*Soap box is available now, stepping down.

 

[Macintosh]

I've had a couple deer that either I shot poorly or I helped trail after they were shot poorly. I've also had the pleasure of following several different tracking dogs on some deer, and lerned a lot in the process. There are tons of folks who have a lot more experience than me, but this is my take. Also this is coming from someone who is primarily a meat hunter, I have never shot a big deer and may never shoot a big deer in large part becasue there simply arent many deer around me and I am less than choosy as a result. It's also generally cool weather, and althiugh we have coyotes around us they dont even seem to get into gut piles within a day or three, let alone a deer, so hopefully that background helps.

One thing that most often don't have a good handle on is the fact that many of our shots simply do not hit where we think they did. ...and, people's confidence level of where the hit was seems pretty unrelated to the actual shot placement! ...and, most people refuse to believe this!

This^^ is the key thing I have learned. About others as well as myself. Of the deer kills I have been involved in, it is the EXCEPTION where the arrow or bullet wound was exactly as-described by the shooter. And that includes me. It's almost always off a little, and sometimes wildly different from how its described. People get understandably jacked up when a deer walks into range, so its no wonder. To me, this is a decent reason to err on the side of caution, whatever that means. I think in many cases--not all, but many--that means giving it more time than less before you start trailing. (by which I mean going beyond the start of the blood trail where you have found blood, found arrow and made an initial assessment of the hit based on that hard evidence). I shot a deer 2 weeks ago. Small buck, shot was 8 yards out of a saddle. I consciously drew, settled the pin, and then shifted the pin forward to sit above his leg. I saw the lighted nock hit and he turned and took off FAST into the blowdowns he'd come out of. I thought it was a perfect hit, blood on arrow was good, called my wife, waited for her to show up to track with me, and when my timer hit 30 min I followed. Well, deer was down about 100 yards from the shot, but it turns out the hit was both higher and farther back than I'd thought. It was still a double lung shot and worked out fine, but it bothers me that at 8 yards the shot was so far off from where I thought. I think in hindsight I know how that happened, but IT HAPPENED.

I also hit a deer a few years ago that resulted in a relevant story. doe comes in, I decide to shoot. She winds me, but keeps stomp-walking in. I release when she is broadside at 12 yards, she takes off. It was fairly dark by the time I got to the arrow, but there was pink blood and a few bubbles in it. Started following and found great blood, but then blood dried up. Followed pinpricks, then we'd get a gush of blood, then pinpricks. Every time we started questioning what was happening we'd hit a pool of blood and think we'd see her in the headlamp beam a few yards ahead. Did this for 2 hours, the whole time thinking we'd find her dead any minute--and bumped her out of a bed. We found guts in the bed, and with her clearly not dead we backed out and decided to come back the next morning. Got on the track at first light, we found no more blood at all, but we found her only about 200 yards past where we bumped her, in a bed on a little knoll. Even though it had been about 40 degrees that night she was still warm and not at all stiff--she hadnt died more than an hour before we got back to her. Turns out I clipped one lung but she was quartering away a lot more than I thought or turned when she heard the bow (or both), and the arrow hit mostly guts and clipped her lung on the way out--bad shot on my part. Nevertheless, I had pink blood with bubbles on the arrow and at least initially a great blood trail, and thought I was OK. Had she been anywhere but on the obvious knoll 200 yards past where we bumped her, we might not have found her at all, I got lucky--but had we waited when the blood trail wasnt consistently strong we could most likely have followed the blood trail directly to her first bed.

I guess that's a long way of saying that for me, with usually cool temps, low odds of coyotes getting there first, and assuming no real rain in the forecast, I think erring on the side of waiting--even if that means overnight--is usually a pretty safe bet if at any point evidence points to anything other than a heart or double-lung shot, becasue no matter who it is or what they say, I just dont trust the hunters initial impression of the shot, I have to try hard to focus on the actual hard evidence. That could be dark blood or guts on arrow, it could be a blood trail that dries up, it could be simply not finding the deer within 200 yards, or it could be any piece of evidence that doesnt line up with your evidence thus far.
Obviously warm temps, rain, or steaming piles of coyote poop all over will have me changing the math. And anything in between I have to make a judgement call. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I searched a bit for common wisdom and found this: https://deerassociation.com/blood-trail-deer/ which more or less matches my approach and what I was taught. The difference being that if I shoot a deer at last light and I want to give it several hours, I am going to wait till first light becasue FOR ME that difference doesnt usually matter, but I'll have daylight which does matter. If you live in a place where, due to warmer normal temps or coyotes or whatever, "erring on the side of caution" means getting after it sooner--well, that seems perfectly rational to me as well.
For what its worth this is also the advice I was given when I took bowhunters safety in the EARLY 1980'S. I dont think any of this is new, nor do I think its media driven.

I work my ass off to take a doe or a little buck. I put 100% effort into any animal I shoot, regardless of headgear. Despite trying I may not get another opportunity that year.
It has nothing to do with time or being scared of the dark or being lazy--it has everything to do with what, in my experience, maximizes my odds of recovering that animal in a way that I can fully utilize it. Anyone else's different situation might result in a different set of decisions, this is just mine based on my typical situation.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

I don't think it's wrong or unethical to give an animal extra time because it has a nice set of antlers. There's more at stake so why not be more cautious?

It's ok to disagree, but it doesn't make someone else a lesser hunter because they value antlers as much as meat.

Wow, I'm glad you're ok with disagreement because you sir just won the dumbest comment of the month in my opinion.

 

[Tod osier]

I think we can all agree that there are causes and reasons to let one lay overnight.

BUT! And what I'm really driving at is:

Have we swayed too far the other way due to:
-Laziness?
-Haphazard or taking shots beyond our ability?
-Lack of woodsmanship/ability to track a wounded animal?
-A misappropriation of the importance of hunting?
-Social media/tv influence?


It seems that the current status quo is to assume that any hunter that leaves their game overnight is being "responsible" or "mature" in their efforts to find the game. But I would like to contest/challenge that notion and put forward that if you are leaving your game overnight, that you as a hunter have come across a very poor set of circumstances due to poor decision(s) or poor skills or, on the off chance, some very poor luck.

Letting one lay overnight should not be the default that it has come to be, but a last ditch effort.






*Soap box is available now, stepping down.

I'd also add afraid of the dark to the list. I'm shocked how scared of the dark people seem.

 

[S.Clancy]

I think we can all agree that there are causes and reasons to let one lay overnight.

BUT! And what I'm really driving at is:

Have we swayed too far the other way due to:
-Laziness?
-Haphazard or taking shots beyond our ability?
-Lack of woodsmanship/ability to track a wounded animal?
-A misappropriation of the importance of hunting?
-Social media/tv influence?


It seems that the current status quo is to assume that any hunter that leaves their game overnight is being "responsible" or "mature" in their efforts to find the game. But I would like to contest/challenge that notion and put forward that if you are leaving your game overnight, that you as a hunter have come across a very poor set of circumstances due to poor decision(s) or poor skills or, on the off chance, some very poor luck.

Letting one lay overnight should not be the default that it has come to be, but a last ditch effort.






*Soap box is available now, stepping down.

Well said.

 

[TxxAgg]

Wow, I'm glad you're ok with disagreement because you sir just won the dumbest comment of the month in my opinion.

Maybe you misunderstood my meaning? Care to elaborate?

If you shoot a nice elk or deer do you just leave the antlers in the woods or do you take them home and send your buddies pics?