Load development, group size and experimenting

[willfrye027]

I screwed on a new 25 creedmoor prefit (26”, bugholes chambered Brux #4 at 26”). This is my second 25 creedmoor so I have some history with this cartridge. I’ve been doing a lot of learning, reading, and experimenting with load development and slowly gotten away from “tinkering”. I shoot a lot of steel from 500-1000ish yards and would consider myself a “long range” hunter which is the ultimate purpose of this build.

Loaded up 10 at 42gr n555 and shot this group. Was pretty hot and windy.




Here’s 10 the next day at 43gr, cooler and cloudy better “shooting” conditions

 

[willfrye027]

At first glance the 43 gr load seems “better”. If I calculate the R95 from the mean radius, it’s 1.6 vs 1.5inches. Which is essentially nothing.

Going to play around with a few different powders, possibly seating depths, and charge weights. Not because I think it matters, more for the sake of experimentation while I’m getting the barrel broken in.

Forgot to mention this is alpha 25 creed brass, cci 450, and hornady 134eld seated approximately 30 thousands from the lands

 

[kevin11mee]

In my opinion, If you're looking for a "long range" hunting load, you need to find a stable load that will shoot consistently and accurately in a variety of conditions and temperatures. Personally, I think the only way to accomplish this is through either a ladder test at 400 yards + or an OCW test to get the powder and charge dialed in to the most stable load. Then seating depth to tighten the group to accuracy standards. The points of impact look quite different going from 42g to 43g which makes me think this isn't a real stable load and will be inconsistent with temperature fluctuations.

 

[bmart2622]

If the powder is not temp stable it will not be temp stable at any charge weight.

 

[doverpack12]

If I was in a pinch and needed a load for season 43 might work and limit distance where accuracy becomes an issue.
Your last 5 also seem to be significantly more consistent than the first 5 in both groups. Could be some cold shooter and technique then you are getting settled in halfway through.
Brux barrel should shoot better

I personally like a load that will put 2-3 shots consistently in the same spot every day I shoot at a given distance. That’s hunting accuracy and consistency.

I like a ladder test because for me it informs velocity at a charge, impact location/formation at a charge, and when I reach pressure.

With a new ish barrel if you need to form brass, load whatever and do some shooting. I don’t like burning components and barrel just to get once fired brass so I will develop a load once the barrel starts to clean easy which is usually about 20 shots. Then I’ll check it or adjust around 150 shots.

I attached a ladder picture shot at 300 yards that shot a 4.5 grain spread of powder charge better than your 42 grain group and real close to the 43 grain group.
Bullet/powder combo should shoot really well across a spread of powder and not have a bunch of vertical or horizontal spread or throw shots.

 

[willfrye027]

In my opinion, If you're looking for a "long range" hunting load, you need to find a stable load that will shoot consistently and accurately in a variety of conditions and temperatures. Personally, I think the only way to accomplish this is through either a ladder test at 400 yards + or an OCW test to get the powder and charge dialed in to the most stable load. Then seating depth to tighten the group to accuracy standards. The points of impact look quite different going from 42g to 43g which makes me think this isn't a real stable load and will be inconsistent with temperature fluctuations.

Forgot to mention but I changed adjusted zero between those two groups. Agree on load stability.. this was with n555 which was a champ in my last 25cm barrel.

Part of my posting these is to “prove” to myself that the OCW and ladder testing I’ve done in the past is not necessary. I think unless you are repeating multiple ladder tests to a statistically significant level then it’s all just noise. Same with seating depth. I probably won’t even touch it with this barrel unless for some reason my groups are not holding up at 800-1000 yards

 

[willfrye027]

Wasn’t liking top end speed with n555 and this barrel so I am trying h4350. Worked up to pressure using 6 cases, backed off a full grain and shot this group.

It was hot lots of mirage. Could call #1 a “flier” but I’m guessing another 10 shots on paper would fill in the cone to include that shot.

Again zero “tuning”.

When conditions are a little better I’ll probably load up the rest of my virgin brass and bang steel. I think this is a 1.2 moa gun which is excellent and more than enough to be effective way out there. My last barrel was more like 1.5 moa and I was happy with that level of precision

 

[willfrye027]

If I was in a pinch and needed a load for season 43 might work and limit distance where accuracy becomes an issue.
Your last 5 also seem to be significantly more consistent than the first 5 in both groups. Could be some cold shooter and technique then you are getting settled in halfway through.
Brux barrel should shoot better

I personally like a load that will put 2-3 shots consistently in the same spot every day I shoot at a given distance. That’s hunting accuracy and consistency.

I like a ladder test because for me it informs velocity at a charge, impact location/formation at a charge, and when I reach pressure.

With a new ish barrel if you need to form brass, load whatever and do some shooting. I don’t like burning components and barrel just to get once fired brass so I will develop a load once the barrel starts to clean easy which is usually about 20 shots. Then I’ll check it or adjust around 150 shots.

I attached a ladder picture shot at 300 yards that shot a 4.5 grain spread of powder charge better than your 42 grain group and real close to the 43 grain group.
Bullet/powder combo should shoot really well across a spread of powder and not have a bunch of vertical or horizontal spread or throw shots.
View attachment 566197

I end up shooting enough at 500-1000 to have a good idea of what the gun is capable of. I used to “tune” pretty intensely but now believe it was all small sample size noise and a waste of time..

 

[Harvey_NW]

I end up shooting enough at 500-1000 to have a good idea of what the gun is capable of. I used to “tune” pretty intensely but now believe it was all small sample size noise and a waste of time..

I'm still waiting for anyone on the internet to post targets where their test was repeated multiple times and proved they significantly improved their load without swapping components..

 

[willfrye027]

I'm still waiting for anyone on the internet to post targets where their test was repeated multiple times and proved they significantly improved their load without swapping components..

Same here. Maybe with some particular bullets that are picky…I can imagine needing to tune. Or for the Fclass or ELR type maybe they can find a small difference that matters.

For me shooting at steel in the wind from field positions has made a dramatic difference in my hit rate…way more than tuning could ever do. And it’s way more fun.

 

[willfrye027]

Another group, same charge weight of h4350. Probably will roll with this load, no need for tinkering and tuning. Will adjust zero .2 mil left to account for some wind drift. Plink with the next 100 virgin brass and maybe play around with neck tension to see if it has any measurable affect at distance.