New ATF rule for firearm sales

[fwafwow]

To top that, plenty of us make upgrades to our firearms in terms of aftermarket stocks, barrel modifications and more. How many people keep every receipt from those purchases In order to justify a particular price to satisfy the government that no profit was made on the sale of a personal firearm?

Making profit doesn’t make you a dealer.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

I've had this problem solved for over 40 years. Just don't sell any of your guns, ever.

 

[fwafwow]

I've had this problem solved for over 40 years. Just don't sell any of your guns, ever.

Best post and advice ever!

 

[taskswap]

I don't think you would be allowed to trade a firearm for sex either.

What if you have sex and then give the firearm as a "gift" on a different day?

 

[Fordguy]

Making profit doesn’t make you a dealer.

Profit is part of their qualification for dealer status. The wording no longer includes livelihood.
Apparently you also qualify for dealer status if you sell multiples of the same make and model of firearm. So If you have duplicates in your possession that are purpose specific and you want to sell them both, you might be a dealer.

Also, if you sell a firearm *or firearms) that are in new or like new condition, you might be a dealer, and don't sell them in or with the original box either.

If you are liquidating your personal collection, you should probably be able to prove that it has been "your personal collection" and not purchased with intent to resell. How does one prove that to the satisfaction of the ATF or a judge?

We can split hairs on definition and interpretation all day, but does anyone really believe that this rule won't be used by the atf to prosecute every day citizen's who are selling their legally owned property?

 

[*zap*]

Purchasing with the intent to resell.

 

[Bluefish]

That still seems pretty grey. Occasional, infrequent or irregular occurrences can mean different things to different people.

Personally tired of laws that do not spell things out very clearly, at an 8th-grade reading level, so that every person can read it and interpret the law, clearly. They should also be limited to a max of two pages double-spaced.

This is by design. If it’s actually defined, say only 1 per month or quarter, then it’s easy to know if you are in compliance or not. If it’s squishy, then the prosecutor can make it what fits the case.

 

[spur60]

F Brandon's AFT.

 

[Forestryguy]

This is by design. If it’s actually defined, say only 1 per month or quarter, then it’s easy to know if you are in compliance or not. If it’s squishy, then the prosecutor can make it what fits the case.

This should make a defense pretty easy. If it is not defined then a person has no way of knowing if they are following this new rule, not a law. This makes it impossible for a reasonable person to in good faith follow the rule.

 

[Bluefish]

This should make a defense pretty easy. If it is not defined then a person has no way of knowing if they are following this new rule, not a law. This makes it impossible for a reasonable person to in good faith follow the rule.

Not that simple when dealing with the feds. They will bankrupt you before you win. Knowing someone who got tangled with the feds (he never committed a crime) they make life unpleasant for a long time.

 

[MattB]

the Arkansas airport director that was just killed by the at-f in his home was being investigated because he bought and sold at gun shows as a private seller

That seems like a really bad deal. I understand from reports that he was investigated because he had bought guns and checked the “for personal use” box and then sold them at gun shows. And some guns he sold had allegedly been used in crimes. But I still can’t understand the early morning raid on his house by ATF officers who violated policy by not wearing body cams.

I am not the conspiracy theory type, but - based on what I think I know - it seems that guys was done dirty by ATF.

 

[BBob]

I am not the conspiracy theory type, but - based on what I think I know - it seems that guys was done dirty by ATF.

Same as the pro life preacher man arrested in an early morning FBI raid in front of his wife and kids. At least they didn't shoot him. What was the ominous threat that they had to do it this way? How many instances of this happening when it shouldn't? I don't thinks it's a conspiracy to say that it's an overhanded show of force to set examples for people the .gov has decided they don't like.

 

[Red Letters]

That seems like a really bad deal. I understand from reports that he was investigated because he had bought guns and checked the “for personal use” box and then sold them at gun shows. And some guns he sold had allegedly been used in crimes. But I still can’t understand the early morning raid on his house by ATF officers who violated policy by not wearing body cams.

I am not the conspiracy theory type, but - based on what I think I know - it seems that guys was done dirty by ATF.

Done dirty? that a bit of an understatement, he’s dead.

Link to guns being used in crimes

 

[Belial]

Another over reach under this administration. They will keep moving the goal posts as long as firearms are in the hands of we the people.

 

[MattB]

Done dirty? that a bit of an understatement, he’s dead.

Link to guns being used in crimes

I googled it for you.

https://www.scribd.com/document/724760472/Malinowski-Search-Warrant-003

 

[fwafwow]

I googled it for you.

https://www.scribd.com/document/724760472/Malinowski-Search-Warrant-003

An interesting read, especially in relation to the topic of this thread and what (alleged) actions might constitute being considered a dealer. The references to (allegedly) previously purchased guns found being used in a few (alleged) crimes start on page 17, with another around page 25.

 

[cuttingedge]

The rules say it can be determined that you had "Intent to make a Profit" even if you sold a firearm at a loss. It is in my opinion entrapment via obscurity.

The "rule" is circumventing our 2nd Amendment Rights. It is intended to turn Law Abiding Citizens into felons, and is also an attempt to put smaller firearms dealers out of business. A lot of them do (did) a good deal of transfers for Profit. Those will be way down now, if they will even offer them at all. This rule was written after the ATF murdered the Arkansas man with zero body camera footage in his home for being suspected of a straw purchase accommodation. No knock warrant at 6am.

I emailed the ATF trying to get clarification on this very vaguely written rule we are supposed to treat as a law. I am kinda getting the run around. I am going to keep after them until they answer the question via email so I have a record of it.

It is tyranny.