Opinion time... Problem or...?

[jspradley]

OP, I think it's okay for your to be frustrated, I just think you may be pointing it in the wrong direction (or we have interpreted incorrectly). You are right to be frustrated with F&G and/or elected officials that have hogtied them.

Yup, If the state agency isn't doing their jobs they are the ones to be angry at. That's a whole 'nother topic, and a very valid one.

If a group is breaking the law and they know they can get away with it then they have no incentive to not do it.

It's also really easy to look at an out-group and assume that because some of them are breaking the law then all of them must be doing it.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I'm Ok with anybody who is doing it legally.....except the Hmong.

 

[jfs82]

Ran into a group of them in B zone this year. 9 or 10 in the camp, talked for a few minutes and they gave me a beer, put me onto where they'd seen a huge black bear the day before and camp was clean when they left. I've got no interest in a huge deer drive at all but I won't be upset with them for what the state allows.

 

[muddydogs]

It seems like these guys are hurting the system legally by sheer numbers of limits to be filled.
I mean If twenty guys have two b tags (for instance) and they are all hunting the same area, even if only a quarter of the tags get filled there will be next to nothing there to hunt next season.
If twenty guys go crappie fishing and keep a limit of 25 a piece from one hole, fishing a gonna be real shitty real quick.
Now think, there's dozens of these camps of twenty or more hunters and anglers per area. That's legally devastating on fish and game populations.
Some of them put videos on YouTube same day or next day a lot of times, telling where to go and what tactic to use and almost always by the next weekend that area has been taken over by these large camps.
I see it all the time now in the areas I grew up hunting and fishing and it gets to be a bit upsetting.
Often their camps are left with trash, broken chairs and twisted up canopy frames and fishing line!
Then, when the bites off or the deer have all gone nocturnal, or whatever, they're off to the next lake or zone or season to do the same things there.

Really dude are you listening to yourself. Geez during the summer there are campgrounds full of people and lakes full of boats all doing the same thing, so whats the difference between a group of 30 people and 6 groups of 5 people or 30 individual people. Come hunting season its hard to find a camp site after opening day due to all the people so whats the difference between this and a few camps of 30? Me thinks your a bit racist and are making up a bunch of BS.

I like to see other ethnic groups enjoying the outdoors because us white boys are getting outnumbered everyday and the only way were going to hold on to firearms and hunting is getting more people involved.

 

[Azone]

I can definitely relate to Meatbucks frustration.
To blame it solely on one race, ethnic group, species of people or whatever the hell else the social justice warriors refer to a certain group these days would be unfair though.
But the Hmongs have earned a hell of a reputation out on the coast for exterminating game populations.
There is also plenty of white trash and Mexicans disobeying the law out here to. I hate the party hunting but until the wardens catch them screwing up it is what it is.

Happy Thanksgiving Rokslide!

 

[amassi]

I think the issue here or lack of an issue is that every hunter in ca can buy 2 otc deer tags. We long to live in a state with active game management but unfortunately the system is set up for hunter opportunity. Any time f&g sends out the questionnaire - hunting quality ranks at the bottom over opportunity. Further complicating this the dept is running an R3 initiative to recruit, retain and reintroduce folks to the outdoors so shorter seasons and quotas probably arent a high priority.

I enjoy being able to buy 2 tags every year but wouldn't be sad in the least if seasons were drastically shortened and tag quotas decreased.

My proposed solution-
- Make the otc rifle hunts 5 days long during the last week of sept.
-any further rifle hunts later in the season on a draw.
-Or make the later hunts archery or primitive muzzy hunts.
- issue herd management doe tags as needed(cheap, but help offset the loss from 2x buck tags)

To offset the cost the tag fees will need to go up accordingly
Otc tags will go from $43-$90.( roughly take half the tags out of the pool)
Special season tags will be $180( 25% of the current tags)

Joke to follow: As part of this initiative every deer tag will include a black bear tag for $1. If the bear quota is met and you didnt harvest a bear you pay a $4 failure to harvest penalty

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[Azone]

I think the issue here or lack of an issue is that every hunter in ca can buy 2 otc deer tags. We long to live in a state with active game management but unfortunately the system is set up for hunter opportunity. Any time f&g sends out the questionnaire - hunting quality ranks at the bottom over opportunity. Further complicating this the dept is running an R3 initiative to recruit, retain and reintroduce folks to the outdoors so shorter seasons and quotas probably arent a high priority.

I enjoy being able to buy 2 tags every year but wouldn't be sad in the least if seasons were drastically shortened and tag quotas decreased.

My proposed solution-
- Make the otc rifle hunts 5 days long during the last week of sept.
-any further rifle hunts later in the season on a draw.
-Or make the later hunts archery or primitive muzzy hunts.
- issue herd management doe tags as needed(cheap, but help offset the loss from 2x buck tags)

To offset the cost the tag fees will need to go up accordingly
Otc tags will go from $43-$90.( roughly take half the tags out of the pool)
Special season tags will be $180( 25% of the current tags)

Joke to follow: As part of this initiative every deer tag will include a black bear tag for $1. If the bear quota is met and you didnt harvest a bear you pay a $4 failure to harvest penalty

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I like most of it but the increase in tag fee I dont. I'm still a little pissed about 20 dollar pig tags.

 

[amassi]

I like most of it but the increase in tag fee I dont. I'm still a little pissed about 20 dollar pig tags.

Pig tags are ridiculous. Remember when you could buy tags by the book full for like $7?
The only way we get any change in ca is if it doesnt further hurt the bottom line. We have to do this in fishing all the time. The state and feds are always against some program until it doesnt cost them anything then they jump right behind it.

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[Poser]

God forbid anyone criticize anything a non-white person does these days. The racism card can't be played fast enough. Virtue signaling, woke white people are worst offenders.

Had the OP featured a picture of a group of white guys, I'd bet my paycheck this thread's comments would be very different.

Posts like this are funny because you are actually the snowflake here. Yes, you. There are THOUSANDS of pics of large deer camps full of white dudes. And that’s just the thing: there is no criticism here of a bunch of dorky accented Wisconsinites running deer drives or MAGA hat wearing, tobacco spitting groups dogging deer in SC. The undertone of this thread is this: “there are a bunch of people who don’t look like me killing deer in large groups, but those large groups of white dudes doing basically the same thing? They are harmless.”

I’m sure you are going to dig your heels in, so go ahead and knock us out with a profound philosophy that somehow makes this an issue of *theoretically* keeping the white man down by merely questioning the implications present in this thread.

 

[Azone]

Pig tags are ridiculous. Remember when you could buy tags by the book full for like $7?
The only way we get any change in ca is if it doesnt further hurt the bottom line. We have to do this in fishing all the time. The state and feds are always against some program until it doesnt cost them anything then they jump right behind it.

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5 for 7 something, yes I do. The good ole days right there.

 

[mtnbiker208]

it is ok to assemble a team if it is in a magazine, but n ot on the internet?
not a fan of team hunting, but it is being done all the time. but is it diy? magazines have articles of guys assembling teams and calling it diy.

 

[amassi]

5 for 7 something, yes I do. The good ole days right there.

They should be free, or state bounty.
The pig issue is such a joke.
Prior to the war, I found a vineyard that had a pig problem
They had 1500 acres of foothill behind the vineyard and in exchange for me and my buddies killing as many pigs as possible they allowed us to archery hunt deer there. After the war those same guys were charging, and getting, $1200 for a weekend hog hunting expedition. What a joke

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[Ross]

Looks like a good time...no concerns....our elk camp in the 80s routinely had 10 or more hunters.

 

[Azone]

I believe the best way to have gone about this thread would have been to title it "Party Hunting Thoughts" or "Possible Wildlife Harassment".
It does suck when you spend all year watching a buck then the season comes around and here come 25 jackasses throwing rocks, hootin and hollering and popping a .22 pistol into the the brush to get'em moving. Then proceed to open fire on every damn thing that runs out. Ask me how I know, I've witnessed it.
This would fall under wildlife harrassment wouldn't it? Or herding of game?

 

[MeatBuck]

Also remember we're not talking whitetail deer, the most abundant and widely hunted of all of North American big game species, we're talking about a declining population of Blacktails and several small subspecies of mule deer here (as well as the small game and fish.)

Secondly if u just took a quick look at the photos and made your reply, I advise you to read through my replys as the info I was attempting to open eyes to has become scattered throughout the first three pages. My fault for not better explaining what the pics represented.

To me the pics represent declining game populations, poor game management and trashed public lands. Not at all saying that anyone guy pictured is at fault or to blame for what the Hmong people represent to the rest of the hunters/fishermen here in California or for what they've been allowed to do "legally" by dfg.

But I also don't see them stepping up and sharing their side of the story in any public forum or place of discussion on the topic.

And for those who say it's the older Hmong generation that was so hard on wildlife, remember who this generation learned from.

If you've ever seen an episode of Wild Justice, remember also that's the stuff ca dfg wanted the public to see. Hidden from the public eye is the real issues that fish and wildlife face everyday.

Should we enter the black market bear gall bladder discussion?
How about Bay Area fish markets?
Markets not particularly involving any average joe hunter.

How many times is the guy running a fish poaching ring in California a white guy?

Ever see a news headline here with a line up of 8-10 white dudes mugshots and headline reading poaching ring busted?

Generally those stories of white men poaching you read about involve one man and one poor decision...

I'm again trying to open eyes to issues that have been swept under the rug by California dfg. And the public too apparently. Not an attempt to start shit, but conversations (and ultimately solutions) have to start somewhere.

 

[amassi]

I believe the best way to have gone about this thread would have been to title it "Party Hunting Thoughts" or "Possible Wildlife Harassment".
It does suck when you spend all year watching a buck then the season comes around and here come 25 jackasses throwing rocks, hootin and hollering and popping a .22 pistol into the the brush to get'em moving. Then proceed to open fire on every damn thing that runs out. Ask me how I know, I've witnessed it.
This would fall under wildlife harrassment wouldn't it? Or herding of game?

Yes- illegal but with something like 264 wardens for the whole state (1:147,000) relatively unenforced.
Even if they wrote a tix, judge drop charge for first timers, or fourth timers

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[MeatBuck]

If I was just a racist redneck without cause I'd certainly be going about things differently.

This is not just a rant of an "entitled white hunter".

Maybe my opinion seems too this or too that but it's been personal experience that's lead me to this position of opinion, nothing else.

Anyone remember seeing the little "No Hmong" signs that the locals posted in b zone about 12-15 yrs ago. Had a little Asian face with the red circle and slash over it.

Those guys may have been racist or going about things all wrong but they may also have had a valid reason for making those signs...? Reasons that still haven't been addressed by dfg.

 

[JohnnyB]

Redirect Notice

First result in Google search of poaching ring busted- 100's of animals killed illegally in the Pacific Northwest.

Next: Idaho Bull Elk poaching ring busted

 

[HuntHarder]

Dude, you need to hunt more. Go to to other states.... You could go out on a deer hunt here in AZ and see 40 guys in a camp with only 10 tags. All 10 tags will likely get filled. Then you go to another unit where archery is OTC, they sell thousands of permits and only a 100 deer get killed. Who gives a shit how big a camp is? If they can only kill 4 bucks with 30 guys hunting, they are probably not very good at hunting... Hike in further and get away from the roads. I am sure this will solve your problem. If they are not doing illegal acts, you look like an idiot calling in on them. You should come to some of our lakes during crappie season. I might be able to run across the lake without getting wet by jumping from boat to boat. Weird thing is, the next year, we still go out and catch crappie....

 

[MeatBuck]

Quick example of my last outing.

Took my son out for first hog hunt a couple weekends ago... Public land of coarse and upon arrival to camp I immediately see trash. So I start picking it up, mind you this is in the middle of a couple thousand acres of brush, not an established campsite with trash service.
First was a plastic water bottle, then a coors light can, then another... how do you know that Hmongs were to blame u ask? The next few bushes we dug through ended up having empty cans of "white goard juice", coconut husks and a nearly full gallon of used motor oil stashed in them. Not the kind of reminance left behind by other ethnic hunting groups.

That's just my most recent example of the problem. The next problem I faced was trying to explain what we were seeing to my young son.
We took more of their trash home at the end of the trip than we did our own. Luckily the plastic oil jug had not sunrotted or spilled there.

How do I explain this situation to a new hunter? Or nonhunter?
Without giving myself the lable of racist or or a black eye to the hunting community.