Paradox Gunhook

[RockChucker30]

I'd appreciate some feedback on a rifle carry solution we've been working on. I've been testing this extensively over the fall season and am really impressed. Most recently I've been using it to carry two slung rifles while predator hunting. Even with two rifles bushwhacking, steep hillsides, fence crossing, etc are not a problem.

The Gunhook is a 0.4 oz carbon fiber frame extension that allows you to carry a slung rifle securely over the top of the backpack frame. This system has several advantages:

- Fast access
- Rifle weight is carried by the backpack frame and transferred to the hips
- Rifle can be accessed and replaced while wearing the pack
- Security - scrambling, climbing are no problem
- Hands free for trekking poles, or climbing
- Comfortable
- Detachable from frame - use it when you need it, leave at home when you don't

[video=youtube_share;8CV4neyzoUY]http://youtu.be/8CV4neyzoUY[/video]

 

[Yellowknife]

Basically, it's functionally identical to hanging your rifle on the "horn" of a traditional frame pack. A system which is used by 95% of guides and many hunters here in Alaska. Most guys will stick a piece wood into the top of the frame tube as a short extension.

Here mine:



That piece of broomstick weighs... 0.4 oz as I recall.

That way of carrying a rifle is my favored system for ease of use and speed of mounting/dismounting. Doesn't require you to take the pack off to attach the rifle which is a huge plus. Also keeps the weight close to the body as mentioned. Drawbacks are that the rifle rides fairly high (with a traditional 32" frame) and can "swing" when you have to do a drastic move in rough terrain. Your shorter frame may be better in that regard.

My cure for some of that this year was too attach the bottom half of a Stone Glacier carrier. I rarely used it, but when I really needed both hands in rough terrain I could slip the rifle butt into the lower carrier and stabilize it. Could still dismount the gun by just lifting it off the horn.



Yk

 

[colonel00]

I like the idea. It would be nice to have it a little more secure while still maintaining the quick access. For instance, having the stock slip into a pocket on the belt or pack. I am sure this is easily done with an add-on accessory of some sort. I just think a second point of attachment could really reduce excess movement. Still, I like the idea so far.

 

[Ray]

from the other post to keep stuff in the appropriate spot....

There are two things I do not like about this method. 1) the rifle flops/swings around and bangs on the bottom of the frame or swings out away from the hips and tosses me off balance. 2) at times it is a real PITA to get the rifle sling up and over the frame and then off. My light webbing sling is pretty floppy and I find I have to lift my rifle way up in the air to get the sling over the top of the frame. It always becomes a two handed operation and is never fast enough in a bear situation or a critter jumping up out of its bed situation.

Due to my age, short arm length, and some issues with my left arm I do not have the flexibility to reach across my body and lift the rifle sling up and over the frame piece.

About thirty years of carrying the rifle this way in AK brush but only recently switched to a light webbing sling and it just does not work as well for this method as the old military leather sling I am used to. But that sling is not going on my sheep rifle.

The gunbearer has its issues for me - I don't hate it, but I don't love it either.

I am looking at the gun slinger corral like Luke and Becca use, but may make my own system/version that fits my wants and needs.

You guys are doing great things for the backcountry hunter, keep it up.

PS: hurring up on my pack order will you. Please.

Ray

 

[Yellowknife]

from the other post to keep stuff in the appropriate spot....

2) at times it is a real PITA to get the rifle sling up and over the frame and then off. My light webbing sling is pretty floppy and I find I have to lift my rifle way up in the air to get the sling over the top of the frame. It always becomes a two handed operation and is never fast enough in a bear situation or a critter jumping up out of its bed situation.

Ray

Not sure what you are trying to do to get the rifle off Ray. With a light webbing sling, I always just hook my right thumb under the sling, lift the gun straight up and off and the gun is instantly in my hand. Faster and easier than any of the various other systems. Never tried to lift the gun up by the stock... seems awkward and slow. Never needed to reach across my body with the left hand either. Is your right shoulder too stiff to pull the gun up and off by the sling for some reason?

The dismount method I use is shown about 0:35 sec in to the video. Works good, at least for most people.

Yk

 

[Kevin_t]

from the other post to keep stuff in the appropriate spot....

There are two things I do not like about this method. 1) the rifle flops/swings around and bangs on the bottom of the frame or swings out away from the hips and tosses me off balance. 2) at times it is a real PITA to get the rifle sling up and over the frame and then off. My light webbing sling is pretty floppy and I find I have to lift my rifle way up in the air to get the sling over the top of the frame. It always becomes a two handed operation and is never fast enough in a bear situation or a critter jumping up out of its bed situation.

Due to my age, short arm length, and some issues with my left arm I do not have the flexibility to reach across my body and lift the rifle sling up and over the frame piece.

About thirty years of carrying the rifle this way in AK brush but only recently switched to a light webbing sling and it just does not work as well for this method as the old military leather sling I am used to. But that sling is not going on my sheep rifle.

The gunbearer has its issues for me - I don't hate it, but I don't love it either.

I am looking at the gun slinger corral like Luke and Becca use, but may make my own system/version that fits my wants and needs.

You guys are doing great things for the backcountry hunter, keep it up.

PS: hurring up on my pack order will you. Please.

Ray

Thanks for the input Ray. We will get you your pack as fast as we can. This might work fine for you Ray because a Paradox rides pretty close , much closer than a traditional external. We don't have them priced yet, but we'd be happy to add one to your order to try when they are ready, and then if it isn't for you just ship it back for a refund.

Myself, I prefer this style of carry for most situations. I can see a concern about height when going through brush, but when I'm going through thick brush I usually want my rifle in my hands anyway. A bottom stabilizer is a good idea, and simple enough to do.

 

[HellsCanyon]

While this method may work for 90% of the hunting rifles out there, it will likely not work very well for 90% of the long range rifles out there. Long barrels and bipods attached to stocks make slinging a rifle on your shoulder or pack a huge PITA. I packed a 12.5 lbs rifle for a few years and almost always carried in the Kifaru grab-it or held it in my hands. That was only a 25" barrel (M24 contour) but with a bipod on it you couldn't even sling it while standing still and glassing as it would swing backwards from too much weight being out towards the muzzle end. I had a similar problem this year with the 300 Norma in a 10.5 lb setup and 26" barrel. To the point where I just pulled the sling off anyways and used the gun bearer.

Once again this is just for long range rifle setups. Most factory hunting rifles this will work fine for. But if you really want to do some testing, find a 26" barreled 10+ lb rifle and put a bipod on the forend and test your system. If it works for that you know you have your bases covered.

 

[RockChucker30]

Ray, our frame is several inches shorter than a standard external, plus the top is tapered so the rifle rides much closer to you than it would on an external. Also, the frame is mostly covered by fabric or the pack bag, so rifles don't bang against the frame.

As far as brush I have intentionally used this system in some places that I normally would have done something different. The barrel sits with enough rearward cant that it really doesn't hang up that badly. Of course adjusting your sling in or out can adjust this a bit.

The bottom strap is easily done.

I appreciate the discussion.

 

[Kevin_t]

While this method may work for 90% of the hunting rifles out there, it will likely not work very well for 90% of the long range rifles out there. Long barrels and bipods attached to stocks make slinging a rifle on your shoulder or pack a huge PITA. I packed a 12.5 lbs rifle for a few years and almost always carried in the Kifaru grab-it or held it in my hands. That was only a 25" barrel (M24 contour) but with a bipod on it you couldn't even sling it while standing still and glassing as it would swing backwards from too much weight being out towards the muzzle end. I had a similar problem this year with the 300 Norma in a 10.5 lb setup and 26" barrel. To the point where I just pulled the sling off anyways and used the gun bearer.

Once again this is just for long range rifle setups. Most factory hunting rifles this will work fine for. But if you really want to do some testing, find a 26" barreled 10+ lb rifle and put a bipod on the forend and test your system. If it works for that you know you have your bases covered.

Thanks for the feedback. My son used an earlier similar setup most of hunting season for his 7 mag, with a pretty significant bipod. I think is 7 mag is a 26 inch barrel and it worked well for him and was his preferred method. I agree, for big long range setups a different carry is needed. You can use a combo of the load shelf and Talon which will work for those, the only drawback being a somewhat heavy item is back sort of far on the pack and has some impact on COG. In my testing of heavy items packed that way (skis), I got used to the COG difference pretty easily.

 

[Ray]

Not sure what you are trying to do to get the rifle off Ray. With a light webbing sling, I always just hook my right thumb under the sling, lift the gun straight up and off and the gun is instantly in my hand. Faster and easier than any of the various other systems. Never tried to lift the gun up by the stock... seems awkward and slow. Never needed to reach across my body with the left hand either. Is your right shoulder too stiff to pull the gun up and off by the sling for some reason?

The dismount method I use is shown about 0:35 sec in to the video. Works good, at least for most people.

Yk

Its probably from years of a habit with a M77 with a military rifle sling. Right hand on the but pad and some pressue up then the left hand reaches over to grab the sling at about shoulder height and its all clear of the pack with not a lot of upward movement. This does not work with the Model 7 or Hawkeye and the mountain sling. I have to grab the sling with my right hand and lift it up like you say. Its just not what I am used to with the frame pack. It feels really awkward for me.

Which reminds me that this method of rifle carry can cause an issue with dropping the rifle when you are tired and sit down into a blue berry bush to have a snack. Not that I have ever done that, but I know a guy that had some issues once out north of Fairbanks while moose hunting.

 

[Ray]

Thanks for the input Ray. We will get you your pack as fast as we can. This might work fine for you Ray because a Paradox rides pretty close , much closer than a traditional external. We don't have them priced yet, but we'd be happy to add one to your order to try when they are ready, and then if it isn't for you just ship it back for a refund.

Myself, I prefer this style of carry for most situations. I can see a concern about height when going through brush, but when I'm going through thick brush I usually want my rifle in my hands anyway. A bottom stabilizer is a good idea, and simple enough to do.

I would love to try one and see how I like it, so add it to the order when it comes time to send it out.

Thanks Kevin.

 

[Aron Snyder]

That's exactly the way I packed a rifle when I sued a banrey's pack.

 

[Rizzy]

What keeps the gun vertical with this type of carry? When i do this on my shoulder the barrel falls back and the gun ends up parallel to the ground unless i hold it with one hand the whole time.

 

[HellsCanyon]

What keeps the gun vertical with this type of carry? When i do this on my shoulder the barrel falls back and the gun ends up parallel to the ground unless i hold it with one hand the whole time.

That was my problem I mentioned in my post. The way a heavy barreled rifle balances makes it pretty impractical to have this way unless you want to be using a hand down low to keep the rifle upright. I feel like if you were to use trekking poles with the rifle sling over the pack frame like this and were covering some ground at a fast pace your rifle would likely swing or slip back to wherever it's balancing point is.

A simple QD type attachment or something down low off the hip belt to keep the rifle upright seems like it would help.

Kevin and others, I just want to say that I have used and abused some Seek Outside gear and have been very pleased with it. I haven't shouldered a Paradox pack or even seen one in person yet, but I've logged a lot of miles with a rifle slung over my shoulder (both factory 8-9 lb scoped rifles as well as heavy 12.5+ lb long range rigs) and my posts reflect my experiences. My hunting partner who also shoots "heavy" rifles until last year used his Badlands OX frame and slung his rifle in this fashion and didn't like it either and it didn't look comfortable to me on every hunt we went on. Have both switch to other carry systems and MUCH prefer them... Just my honest opinion and feedback from what I'm seeing and what my experience has taught me to like and appreciate.

Mike

 

[RockChucker30]

What keeps the gun vertical with this type of carry? When i do this on my shoulder the barrel falls back and the gun ends up parallel to the ground unless i hold it with one hand the whole time.

A buttstock strap removes any chance of movement, but unless your rifle is front heavy it isn't much of an issue.

 

[RockChucker30]

Mike, the Gunhook is geared more for hunting weight rifles. We've been working on some LR solutions as well. I'll shoot you a PM.

 

[Vance in AK]

I too have used this style of carry with My Barney's & Cabela's frames. I will say that I started using the Kifaru Gun Bearer about 3 yrs ago & have not looked back. I recently ordered a Kifaru pack system & I ordered a new Gun Bearer to go with it. My current one will stay on my Eberlestock Blue Widow for my son to use.

 

[dirtytough]

I have carried a rifle like that a lot on a barneys frame, and this year I used a Kifaru gunbearer. I liked the gunbearer better.

Carrying it on the frame, it also rubbed some smooth spots into my stock.

With the gun bearer I don't need a sling, my barrel was way lower not getting caught up in brush etc. It felt weird at first having the rifle in front, but after a few miles it didn't bother me at all.

 

[RockChucker30]

Carrying it on the frame, it also rubbed some smooth spots into my stock.

I want to make this point very clear because in my mind that is a major drawback of this style carry with a traditional external frame.

With the Paradox system the rifle does not contact the frame.

 

[Tim in Wa.]

Thats how I carry with my KU5200.I just hook the sling over the top of my 26" stay.I just need to remember that it takes a little more effort to get it off in a hurry
Tim