Vortex Razor HD 50 vs Nikon ED50 vs Minox MD50

A 40X would be interesting on the 50mm, conditions would have to be perfect to ever utilize it though. I really see 33X being at the top of the spectrum personally. At any rate that 50mm is pretty darned sweet.

dotman, cool to see your 65mm arrived, glad you love it dude! I looked through it here as well & was very impressed, next to the 85mm it did pretty darned good. I will say you need a nice solid steady tripod for best results in glassing for long periods. Thanks.

ElkNut1
 
ElkNut1 said:
A 40X would be interesting on the 50mm, conditions would have to be perfect to ever utilize it though. I really see 33X being at the top of the spectrum personally.
Click to expand...

Paul,

Why do you feel 33x is the top?

I am not following on conditions, 40x isn't bad for mirage unless conditions are pretty terrible, IME.

My ED50 @ 40x is pretty good actually, although it does get pretty dim in really low light.
 
Matt, yes I was referring to mirage more than anything. When I was testing the Vortex 50mm the other day in the short review I'd done & posted above it was one of those very bright sunny days, getting a real nice clear scene was tough over 27X. As the sun left behind clouds here & there the view cleared right up to full 33X. It seems for 40X to be effective on the smaller spotters conditions have to be near perfect. I'm sure low light conditions would perform just fine when sun is not the culprit. Just the same I do like the idea of 40X (grin) As the 50mm sits at present I am wowed at its crystal clear viewing!

When using both the 65mm & 85mm under the exact conditions 40X is no problem but when I get into the 53x-54X on max 60X Spotters the same mirage issue starts to arise on those bright sunny days, no doubt the larger objective lenses make a big difference. I've looked through 20-60X65 swaros & have had the exact results as on the Vortex Razor HD's.

ElkNut1
 
Interesting Paul,

I haven't noticed big objective spotters being particularly mirage resistant.

Sounds like a good experiment with the ED50 and Diascope 85 though!

I will have to give it a try.
 
Matt, yes I've seen this quite a few times. I've not had even the sunniest days effect my 85 on 40x-50x -- but on the smaller objective lenses it seems to appear much more rapid. When you get a chance please take out your 50 & 85, you will notice the 50mm show the heat wave effect at about 25X, now take your 85mm & set it on 25X & you'll see that it's not even phased, it will take you in the 40X - 50X range easily before distortion starts to appear. Of course looking at the same scenery is necessary & out in the 2 mile + range, closer distances & the distortion is minimized on both. I look forward to hearing your results.

ElkNut1
 
I have always been more of a bino guy and know a lot more about them and have more experience with them.
Plus for most of the dense PNW that I hunt in and the type of hunting I do, a spotter has not seemed to be that necessary for me.
The only spotter that I now own is a lightweight inexpensive Eagle Optics 15-45x60 or 65; and that hardly gets used much.
But recently I have been taking an interest in getting a good quality ( or decent better quality) somewhat lightweight spotter
for both hunting and maybe digiscoping. I had been planning on ordering that lighter spotter recently and was looking
at the (3) mentioned in the OP and also thrown in the mix to look at as possibilities - the Leupold 50 or the Leup. 12-40x60;
or maybe even the Pentax 65ED.

The following probably does nothing to contribute to this thread. But here it goes anyways.

Have not seen the Votex 50 or a 65, but I was all set to order a 65 Razor for it's versatility
until I found out from eagle optics and verified from Vortex that the new 50's and the 65's
are China made. Which surprised me because the 85 is Japaneese made ( or at least they were)
- so I just figured the new ones would be.

I then paused and did not order the Razor. The quality was possibly ( and hopefully it will be that way)
there; but I don't know, I just could not fork out $1200 for a China made newly offered spotter.

So I have ordered a new Pentax 65 ED 20-60 zoom
( still made in Japan) for $699 and I ordered a Nikon ED50 13-30x for $649.
So for only $150 more I get 2 spotters. The Pentax 65 weighs less than
the Vortex 65; costs less ( by a lot); made in Japan (verified) and can use all
sorts of different lens from either Pentax or other manufacturers. I will see how it pans out.

Plus I added a Nikon ED 50 for only $150 more than just the 65 Razor alone would have been. I know the Nikon ED 50
body is made in China, but at least the lens is still made in Japan- and I get get more after market lenses for it
as opposed to just one lens option. I know these will probably have to be used ones, since I do not believe
Nikon is making many fieldscope lenses anymore, but at least they are out there.

I do not know if this helps or hurts anyone with this info; but they were my thoughts before ordering.

I love Vortex products and they are a fantastic company. I was just really disappointed to find out that
a scope that I was excited about ordering for long time now was made in China. I thought the Razor 85
was and is a fantastic scope; it was just not for me since there was no way I was going to lug that thing
around the mountains. So when I heard there would be new 50mm and 65 mm offerings for their top
of the line scopes, I was interested in getting one. But then to find out that their new offerings for their
flag ship spotter line were China made-.... well, for me the excitement level went straight to- not so much.

So I ended up going a tried and true route for my new spotter/ (spotter's).
 
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I've got a Razor HD50 on the way. Pretty excited to have it for at least part of the spring bear season and looking forward to doing some comparisons with friend's ED50s.
 
Last edited:
ElkNut1 said:
Matt, yes I was referring to mirage more than anything. When I was testing the Vortex 50mm the other day in the short review I'd done & posted above it was one of those very bright sunny days, getting a real nice clear scene was tough over 27X. As the sun left behind clouds here & there the view cleared right up to full 33X. It seems for 40X to be effective on the smaller spotters conditions have to be near perfect. I'm sure low light conditions would perform just fine when sun is not the culprit. Just the same I do like the idea of 40X (grin) As the 50mm sits at present I am wowed at its crystal clear viewing!

When using both the 65mm & 85mm under the exact conditions 40X is no problem but when I get into the 53x-54X on max 60X Spotters the same mirage issue starts to arise on those bright sunny days, no doubt the larger objective lenses make a big difference. I've looked through 20-60X65 swaros & have had the exact results as on the Vortex Razor HD's.

ElkNut1
Click to expand...

Interesting, my nikon ed50 with 13-40x eyepiece has been pretty much mirage free since I owned it, I run that thing to 40x in all conditions but low light and get very useable mirage free image, can't remember having to back down because of mirage. Compared it to my Dads new swaro hd 65 with 25-50x wide eyepiece and all icould see was mirage, tons of it, I could still also see the elk at 1400 and a lot more of them but that grainy mirage filled image still leaves an impression in my head, the ed50 with 40x is incredibly useable for me, I cant imagine more optical performance for mere 22 ounces.
 
The mirage effect is at the longer distances such as 2 mile plus. It's not noticed hardly at all at a mile or under. The mirage effect comes into play on the extreme hot & sunny days. I've looked through quite a few spotters over the years & I've seen this on every one of them when conditions are right for it. This mirage/abberation is the heat waves coming off the earths surface, the image doesn't appear grainy but obscured instead as these heat waves dance around. I have looked through Nikon Spotters & they have it too, although I have not used an ED50 but would speculate it's there. (grin)

ElkNut1
 
Paul,

I have been looking for this objective size relationship since we last talked about this, comparing the ED50 to the Diascope, and now the ATX. The bigger scopes do seem more mirage resistant - at the same magnification - than the little scope. It is a pretty small difference, from what I have seen so far. It still seems like magnification is the biggest factor.

I suspect the advantage the big scopes have isn't from the bigger objectives so much as their longer focal lengths and deeper depths of field.

This would also explain why the Meopta S2 resisted mirage better than the Diascope, as the Meopta design showed a noticeably deeper depth of field than the Diascope.

Stinky,

Did you compare mirage effects between the ED50 and Swaro HD at the same 40x magnification?

I wonder if the Kowa you tested has a deep Depth of Field also that makes it mirage resistant.

Interesting stuff guys. I am going to keep looking at this.
 
Bitterroot- Last year I did your idea and took the MCII off my 65ED and bought a 50ED body. My setup is awesome, and I love the performance of the 50ED with the MCII.

Then I purchased the MC 15x-30x eyepiece (or 20x45 on the 65mm) and put it on the 65ED to sale. This spotter is still for sale. I'm only asking $750. Not many interested buyers...I don't recommend that gamble. I basically own a +$700 50ED.
 
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