wolf management debate

[Divide93]

No matter how you refer to wolves, pro wolf folks don't want to compromise . 30 years of history from Idaho, Wyoming and Montana should show you that. There. Is. No. Compromising. With. These. Groups.

Absolutely correct! Waste of good hunting and fishing time "conversing" with their ilk! Makes about as much sense as voting anymore!

 

[5MilesBack]

the person on the other side of that conversation can't understand what you mean.

And that's regardless of what words get used. It's not the words used......it's their lack of being able to grasp solid logical reasoning where the disconnect happens. And that's with all discussions, not just wolf management. They have a specific agenda, and they won't compromise from that.

It reminds me of Proverbs 14:7 - "Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge".

 

[HighUintas]

And that's regardless of what words get used. It's not the words used......it's their lack of being able to grasp solid logical reasoning where the disconnect happens. And that's with all discussions, not just wolf management.

It reminds me of Proverbs 14:7 - "Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge".

No. It absolutely is the words used and how the discussion is framed. Trying to invalidate the opposition by insulting their intelligence is not the way to get anything constructive done, especially when you put them all in the same bucket. Yes I'm sure there's a lot of idiots in that camp, just as there is in the hunter camp. Further, they probably feel the same way about hunters that want to annihilate or minimize the wolf population. "Hunters can't/don't want to understand the need to have a sustainable wolf population. Our arguments and science fall on deaf ears".

 

[Customweld]

Their compromise going into reintroduction is knowing that wolf population can increase by 30 percent every year. Once they can get a couple of packs going, there is no way on God's green earth that hunters can even come close to matching that 30 percent in harvesting them. Trapping is by far the most productive *legal* method to controlling them. That was recently reduced in Idaho due to alleged grizzly interactions.
Wolves, grizzlies, wolverines, sage grouse , is anyone starting to see the bigger picture yet?

 

[mtwarden]

There is little hope of changing the minds of pro wolf, aka anti hunter, folk. It is very much in our interest however to make a good case for folks who are yet undecided.

I think there will be people (other than anti hunters) watching these kind of debates, how we do as hunters will have a large impact on those folks.

 

[TVW]

My main thought about wolf management was in reference to Washington. There is zero management in wilderness areas.
I know we have what feels like liberal management methods here in Idaho. But even that isn't getting the job done. And its getting taken away as we speak. Just last month a judge took a few months of prime trapping season away due to 'POSSIBLE' grizzly detainment from a wolf trap.
F4WM is doing a great job with raising awareness and reimbursing expenses accrued from wolf management efforts. But even that only scratches the surface. These wolves need to be reduced to the point that they fear man again. My referral to them as criminals was off the cuff but the more I think about it the more they actually do become a criminal element in the animal world. They are like assassins when completely left unchecked. No other animals I know will wantonly kill 100 sheep and not eat a bite.

Said it before, I'll say it again even thought it's unpopular. The changes that Idaho made to the Wolf Seasons/Regulations a few years ago were stupid and did nothing but put us in the cross hairs for more lawsuits.

We already had super liberal seasons & regulations before that. More seasons wasn't the answer when people weren't getting off their butts and taking advantage of the seasons we already had.

The problem is, people spend too much time bitching about wolves and not enough time doing something about it.

Flame away.

 

[Customweld]

Said it before, I'll say it again even thought it's unpopular. The changes that Idaho made to the Wolf Seasons/Regulations a few years ago were stupid and did nothing but put us in the cross hairs for more lawsuits.

We already had super liberal seasons & regulations before that. More seasons wasn't the answer when people weren't getting off their butts and taking advantage of the seasons we already had.

The problem is, people spend too much time bitching about wolves and not enough time doing something about it.

Flame away.

I agree . It's hard to say if we were going to get sued again, but the spotlight shining down on us certainly brought it to the front.
I actually got out this last winter and put some effort in hunting them. There was a couple other guys that were hunting the same area I was, except they were up every day. After the 1st of January, USFWS was always a day ahead of us. I never got a solid number on how many they took out, but I heard from a pretty reliable source that it was more than a few.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Ascribing the term “criminal” to a wolf, or any other animal is ridiculous. Elk damage more seed alfalfa than they can eat. They are animals being animals, just like wolves when they kill a prey animal.

 

[SandyCreek]

Ascribing the term “criminal” to a wolf, or any other animal is ridiculous. Elk damage more seed alfalfa than they can eat. They are animals being animals, just like wolves when they kill a prey animal.

except when they go on live stock killing sprees.. 4 more this week.

 

[Jason Snyder]

except when they go on live stock killing sprees.. 4 more this week.

It’s still an animal being an animal. Wolves will feed on a carcass for a number of days. They lack a prefrontal cortex to make cognitive decisions. Are you suggesting a wolf could make a rational decision that “I have enough food for seven days now”?

I dont care if people like them or hate them. Same for deer. And elk. They are just animals.

If my dog kills the neighbors cat he isn’t a criminal. He’s just a dog doing what a dog is genetically inclined to do.

 

[TVW]

Ascribing the term “criminal” to a wolf, or any other animal is ridiculous. Elk damage more seed alfalfa than they can eat. They are animals being animals, just like wolves when they kill a prey animal.

Yep. I got a depredation tag in Idaho a few years ago. The farmer told me that each bull living in his corn cause about $5k worth of damage a year.

So are elk criminals too?

 

[SandyCreek]

It’s still an animal being an animal. Wolves will feed on a carcass for a number of days. They lack a prefrontal cortex to make cognitive decisions. Are you suggesting a wolf could make a rational decision that “I have enough food for seven days now”?

I dont care if people like them or hate them. Same for deer. And elk. They are just animals.

If my dog kills the neighbors cat he isn’t a criminal. He’s just a dog doing what a dog is genetically inclined to do.

probably a more accurate use of criminal is the people who forced the wolves into this situation i suppose.

 

[Jason Snyder]

probably a more accurate use of criminal is the people who forced the wolves into this situation i suppose.

Carry on.

 

[5MilesBack]

No. It absolutely is the words used and how the discussion is framed. Trying to invalidate the opposition by insulting their intelligence is not the way to get anything constructive done, especially when you put them all in the same bucket.

The discussion doesn't matter because they have a specific agenda to meet. There is no valid discussion because there will never be any compromise. Each and every action they take has a purpose......sometimes to take an inch, sometimes to take a foot. But make no mistake about it, there is a purpose.....and compromise is not part of that.

You need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Study that from every angle, and the pieces all fall into place and become crystal clear. It's not just wolves, it's absolutely every single thing that's going on in America and the world today. It's not their intelligence that's the problem, it's their overall agenda and intent. In fact.......if their goal is to destroy America, then their logic makes perfect sense. That's a fact. But then you have to ask the question of "what exactly does that accomplish, and who benefits from that?" In that regard......nobody benefits. That's where the real logic breaks down, but that still doesn't change their agenda......for whatever warped reason.

 

[5MilesBack]

So are elk criminals too?

You're completely missing the point that was made. Are elk un-managed? That was the entire focus of the word even being brought up. The label "criminal" itself should more appropriately be placed on those that wanted wolves with no way to control or manage them. That should be criminal.

 

[TVW]

You're completely missing the point that was made. Are elk un-managed? That was the entire focus of the word even being brought up. The label "criminal" itself should more appropriately be placed on those that wanted wolves with no way to control or manage them. That should be criminal.

Fair enough. I did miss that.

I'm kinda wrong anyway because an argument could be made that the Elk were only on his farm because the Wolves had pushed them outta the mountains into "safety".

I'm an idiot. I'll go away now. Have a good weekend ya'll!

 

[omicron1792]

It’s still an animal being an animal. Wolves will feed on a carcass for a number of days. They lack a prefrontal cortex to make cognitive decisions. Are you suggesting a wolf could make a rational decision that “I have enough food for seven days now”?

I dont care if people like them or hate them. Same for deer. And elk. They are just animals.

If my dog kills the neighbors cat he isn’t a criminal. He’s just a dog doing what a dog is genetically inclined to do.

Your dog would be treated as a criminal in that situation. He would be taken by animal control (law) and euthanized (judicial punishment). So your analogy seems to strengthen his point.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Your dog would be treated as a criminal in that situation. He would be taken by animal control (law) and euthanized (judicial punishment). So your analogy seems to strengthen his point.

LOL only because of any applicable city or county ordinance. If it’s on my property and the cat gets whacked, no crime.

And no he would not be euthanized in many jurisdictions but I as the owner could possibly be fined IF it occurred off my property.

They are animals. They don’t have the mental state to commit a crime. No mens rea, no crime. No crime, no criminal.

 

[2ski]

The discussion doesn't matter because they have a specific agenda to meet. There is no valid discussion because there will never be any compromise. Each and every action they take has a purpose......sometimes to take an inch, sometimes to take a foot. But make no mistake about it, there is a purpose.....and compromise is not part of that.

You need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Study that from every angle, and the pieces all fall into place and become crystal clear. It's not just wolves, it's absolutely every single thing that's going on in America and the world today. It's not their intelligence that's the problem, it's their overall agenda and intent. In fact.......if their goal is to destroy America, then their logic makes perfect sense. That's a fact. But then you have to ask the question of "what exactly does that accomplish, and who benefits from that?" In that regard......nobody benefits. That's where the real logic breaks down, but that still doesn't change their agenda......for whatever warped reason.

The point is not to change the mind of the people who have made up their mind. Who are entrenchedin their opinion. It's to influence the opinion of the people in the middle who aren't hostile to the wolf management side of the debate or ego haven't made up their mind.

 

[2ski]

I love how people use the argument that the other side won't compromise which is why they won't compromise. When if they sat in a room and listened like a fly on the wall they'd be hearing the exact same thing out of the other side's mouths.

My definition of insanity isn't doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. It's sticking your head in the sand and not being willing to come together and listen to eachother.