Explain to me your "Hardshell" jacket choice

[excaliber]

I've been wanting to ask this for a while now as I can't figure it out. What's your meaning of a Hard shell jacket?

Is anything that's completely windproof and waterproof counted as a hard shell?

I see many here on backcountry hunts carry a single Merino baselayer, puffy and a hardshell. What do you do when it's windy or cold and the baselayer isn't enough? You can't bushwack with a puffy at all and a hardshell is too noisy to get in close with.

IMHO almost all hardshells are too noisy for Bowhunting and have no place in my bow hunting setup unless you consider my Cabelas space rain packable jacket a hard shell.

I don't pack in as I return to the truck every day so my needs are totally different from yours.

What hardshells are you bowhunters using?

 

[Trial153]

I only bowhunt. I dont subscribe to the hard shell plus puffy school. I either pack in somthing like a dewpoint and i much only use it when it rains. Or if i am hunting some where were rain is a given then i use a coldfront as my primary.

In a lot of conditions a puffy or a hard shell isnt quite enough for me to end a stalk in and i am no longer frezzing in baselayer basecause i took my shell of in geting in close for a shot..
If i rifle hunted a puffy and shell would be the ticket.

 

[go4thegusto]

I mainly bowhunt also. I have owned many a hardshell, Kuiu Guide, FL Sanctuary, North Face camo XXX, etc. Sold them all due to noise and weight. As hard as I go now is a Sitka Jetstream over a puffy. Great quiet system for archery up close.

 

[TwoTikkas]

I bow hunted almost exclusively for 15 years. But,back in the day,fleece was king. So not much to add to the modern archer's questions. Now,being a full time gun hunter,I do currently subscribe to the puffy / hard shell school. It goes like this. Next to skin is the core Lt wt hoodie. Next up is some weight of merino. Light or heavy depending on the plan for the day. Next is the Kelvin lite puffy insulation layer. If needed. If not,in the day pack it goes. Outer wear at present is the Timberline. My thought process is this. Ill get the most from the insulation layer(s) with the wind proof shell over top. So far so good. Still working on my REALLY cold gear for whitetail. Currently thinking Sanctuary,but no purchases yet. I've got this mule deer hunt in a few weeks,so pennies are tight.

 

[LostArra]

If you were bow hunting Colorado or southern Wyoming in Sept of 2013 you probably weren't concerned about the noise from your hard shell or you wished you had one.

 

[Matt W.]

IMO, a hardshell is needed to battle either rain or extreme weather. My choice for backpacking is the Sitka Dewpoint, for base camps in nasty weather the Sitka Stormfront, and for winter pursuits the OR White Room Jacket (which of course is no longer made, replaced by the new Hemisphere series)

Sometimes if lots of sitting is involved a hardshell is a great wind protection layer. However, if weather is not intense some of the wind proof soft shells are a great alternative.

I can see where bow hunting and hard shells collide a bit, but if the weather is nasty enough to need to be wearing the hard shell, do you think the noise one might make wearing it would matter? I've hunted pretty much my whole life, but am a amateur when it comes to taking a critter with a bow.

 

[Justin_the_EDG]

Yeah, the first 2 posters poo poo hardshells, but then proceed to state that they carry hard shells... Anything "waterproof" and "windproof" is a hard shell. Compare that to a soft shell that is water resistant like the Jetstream, Corrugate Guide Jacket, Kuiu Guide, etc. It doesn't have to be made out of hard yellow plastic to fall in the shell category.

Also, OP, you asked about what to do when a base isn't enough, but you can't move in a puffy. That's why most guys it seems are carrying a fleece or heavy merino second layer. I do a fleece personally as it's more durable, it is going to work surprisingly well as a layer against light rain, and depending on the one you get, it can help with wind as well.

While I don't bowhunt yet, Kuiu is known for making fairly quiet gear, and it sounds like you fine the Cabela's Space Rain sufficient for your needs, but I suspect most guys just aren't gonna he finishing stalks with rain gear on, even if there is some precipitation. Doesn't mean you don't want it the whole rest of the hunt. That would be kinda like a guy saying he doesn't wear shoes into the backcountry (or wherever) when he bow hunts because they're too loud to stalk in and he finishes his opportunities in socks anyhow. Get a sub-10oz jacket that keeps your area's weather out (hard or soft shell if sufficient), wear it when you need it, and take it off when you don't. It'll keep you comfortable between stalks.

 

[Trial153]

Explain to me your "Hardshell" jacket choice

Yeah, the first 2 posters poo poo hardshells, but then proceed to state that they carry hard shells... Anything "waterproof" and "windproof" is a hard shell. Compare that to a soft shell that is water resistant like the Jetstream, Corrugate Guide Jacket, Kuiu Guide, etc. It doesn't have to be made out of hard yellow plastic to fall in the shell category.

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I probably have about 150 ish days bow hunting in my Jetstream jacket and vest. I think that’s enough bowhunting to compare it to a hard shell. If you don’t think there is a big difference in stalking into bow range wearing a soft shell or fleece vs a hard shell and puffy you probably haven’t made many stalks. Just because they have a similar function doesn’t mean they perform the same for different people based on their hunting.
We carry packable hard shells because when I do need them there really isn’t choice in the matter, but hopefully they stay in pack for the whole hunt. Are there situations, like coastal areas where rain is the daily normal, for sure and in that case hard shells are given.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

I use the Badlands Exo for a light rain, light snow conditions. It's got a brushed outer shell and keeps rain out pretty good.

If you're now worried about staying dry for multiple days (backcountry), then a little shelled jacket should work fine for a day.

If it's raining hard enough to require a full on hardshell, I doubt the sound of a hardshell is going to be louder than the rain in the bush.

 

[Trial153]

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While I don't bowhunt yet, Kuiu is known for making fairly quiet gear, and it sounds like you fine the Cabela's Space Rain sufficient for your needs, but I suspect most guys just aren't gonna he finishing stalks with rain gear on, even if there is some precipitation. Doesn't mean you don't want it the whole rest of the hunt. That would be kinda like a guy saying he doesn't wear shoes into the backcountry (or wherever) when he bow hunts because they're too loud to stalk in and he finishes his opportunities in socks anyhow. Get a sub-10oz jacket that keeps your area's weather out (hard or soft shell if sufficient), wear it when you need it, and take it off when you don't. It'll keep you comfortable between stalks.

Did it ever occur to you that since you have zero experience in something maybe shouldn’t be giving advise as you have no experience base to draw from?

 

[Tater86]

I bought the new catalyst jacket from First Lite for bowhunting this year. It is a redesigned softshell system. The laminate layer that typically exists in softshell jackets was removed and it really quieted down the jacket. Yes, it is labeled as a softshell, but as everyone knows you use them as hardshells. The jacket is extremely durable, breathes well, but also blocks wind and sheds water really well. It also has a fleece backer to add a little warmth. Also, it can pack down incredibly well. I would check one of those out if you are in the market.

 

[Justin_the_EDG]

Did it ever occur to you that since you have zero experience in something maybe shouldn’t be giving advise as you have no experience base to draw from?

Well, I didn't give any bowhunter specific advice, I gave advice from which I could draw on my current backpacking and hunting experience for. Which was that I suggest getting a lightweight shell, of either type, that is sufficient for your area/weather, and wear it when it makes sense to and don't wear it when it doesn't.

What about that advise is ill informed or out of context?

 

[Trial153]

Well, I didn't give any bowhunter specific advice, I gave advice from which I could draw on my current backpacking and hunting experience for. Which was that I suggest getting a lightweight shell, of either type, that is sufficient for your area/weather, and wear it when it makes sense to and don't wear it when it doesn't.

What about that advise is ill informed or out of context?

This is really simple. Read the last line in the OP post.

“What hard shells are you Bowhunters using ? “

I would say that if you aren’t a bowhunter, your advise is out of context.

That reminds me ...I need to go over to the long range section and comment on ballistics. I have plans on shooting a rifle at like 200 ( is that long range? ) yards someday, I am qualified.

 

[Justin_the_EDG]

Also @Trial153, I just saw your first post in which you seem to be trying to argue with me, but you're saying nothing I disagree with. I literally suggested a fleece layer in my post as an option for lighter rain (particularly when active). Also, when did I say there was no difference between a puffy+hardshell vs a soft shell? Don't attack folks who aren't even in disagreement with you. I merely pointed out that you say you don't subscribe to a puffy+shell system, but then talk about carrying a shell as a bowhunter. So there's obviously a place for a hardshell to bowhunters, as your use suggests. Wear it when it when you can't, don't when you can't. Don't just toss the idea of carrying one entirely just because you can't wear it in the final stages of a stalk.

 

[Justin_the_EDG]

This is really simple. Read the last line in the OP post.

“What hard shells are you Bowhunters using ? “

I would say that if you aren’t a bowhunter, your advise is out of context.

I didn't give him a suggestion on a hardshell... In fact, I didn't address the question that was directed at bowhunters at all. I did my best to answer the many other questions and questioning statements like "what's your meaning of a hardshell?" "Is anything 100% water/windproof considered a hardshell?" And "Unless you consider my Cabela's Space Rain a hardshell."

Again, what that I have said is incorrect? It seems that our suggestions line up quite well, actually.

 

[Trial153]

Also @Trial153, I just saw your first post in which you seem to be trying to argue with me, but you're saying nothing I disagree with. I literally suggested a fleece layer in my post as an option for lighter rain (particularly when active). Also, when did I say there was no difference between a puffy+hardshell vs a soft shell? Don't attack folks who aren't even in disagreement with you. I merely pointed out that you say you don't subscribe to a puffy+shell system, but then talk about carrying a shell as a bowhunter. So there's obviously a place for a hardshell to bowhunters, as your use suggests. Wear it when it when you can't, don't when you can't. Don't just toss the idea of carrying one entirely just because you can't wear it in the final stages of a stalk.

Yeah, the first 2 posters poo poo hardshells, but then proceed to state that they carry hard shells... Anything "waterproof" and "windproof" is a hard shell. Compare that to a soft shell that is water resistant like the Jetstream, Corrugate Guide Jacket, Kuiu Guide, etc. It doesn't have to be made out of hard yellow plastic to fall in the shell category.

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The OP asked how we use it, we answered. We didn’t poo poo anything. We explained that as BOWHUNTERS the use of a hard shell gets narrower based on the nature of bowhunting and getting close. If you didn’t need to get close a hard shell becomes much more versatile as it can be used from start to finish of the hunt.

 

[Justin_the_EDG]

...as BOWHUNTERS the use of a hard shell gets narrower based on the nature of bowhunting and getting close. If you didn’t need to get close a hard shell becomes much more versatile as it can be used from start to finish of the hunt.

Awesome. Great to see that we understand one another and agree on everything. Good luck this fall!

 

[FlyGuy]

Don't get sucked into this guy's BS. He just likes starting trouble. You gave solid, honest advice based on experience, and qualified where your experience was limited for clarity. That's what we are all looking for when we post a question to the slide.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

 

[excaliber]

Although this got side tracked a bit.......................I'm still trying to find out what most bow hunters use as a hardshell. I'm wanting to buy a new jacket and the Thunderhead is a possibility. I really want a Jetstream but if I went with the Thunderhead I could lose the Cabelas space rain jacket out of my pack.

The rest of the Sitka jackets are too noisy for my liking and not warm enough and too expensive for just a rain jacket.
First lite doesn't make anything I'm remotely interested in. I want a wind barrier garment.

There really seems to be a large gap in most manufacturers Jackets between their soft shells and a non existent quiet hard shell.

Kryptek makes the Vellus jacket but it's 10 oz heavier than the Thunderhead. I'm not going to hike in this jacket. It's for sitting and glassing mostly but it still needs to be quiet enough to stalk in should the weather and situation make it necessary.

I'm leaning towards the Thunderhead with a Kelvin lite hoody underneath. I just don't see any better options out there. If I'm missing any jackets that fit the bill let me know.

 

[dreamingWest]

Unless I’m bowhunting somewhere that has typically heavy rain patterns I stick with throwing the Cabela’s Space Rain in the pack. I think Kuiu has some good options to bowhunt in if the Space Rain is in your pack.

Peloton 240 Jacket: Very lightweight and quiet “almost” soft shell.
Kenai Jacket: Uniquely quiet and breathable puffy.

I would be comfortable finishing a stalk in either of those pieces. If it’s raining so hard during the final approach of your stalk you need a hardshell, noise may be less of a concern.


Since you return the truck each night, I think you have a lot of good options to explore without the limitations to backcountry guys. When I know I’m hunting from the truck, I typically bring my old Russell APXg2 Gale softshell, very similar to the Sitka Jetstream. Another piece that can be a life saver for me is the Mountain Hardwear Dual Fleece Jacket. It’s such a thick fleece it does really well in the wind and is the dead silent.

So for most bowhunting in drier areas I’d probably stick with my Cabela’s Space Rain and use:

Backpacking: one or both of the Kuiu Peloton and Kenai.
Truck: Sitka Jetstream or Mountain Hardwear Dual Fleece (depending on precip and temp.)

Bowhunting in wetter areas (Northwest, Alaska). I’m not experienced here yet. I’m taking Kuiu Yukon set to British Columbia this year, along with a rifle. The truck gives you a lot of possibilities though. Bring the Space Rain along with your heavier hardshell and check the forecast each day.


(And yes I know I just rambled through that.)