The 'BEST' Binoculars

[Ryan Avery]

I'm glad that ELs work for most of you guys. I get headaches using them. Great glass, but not for MY eyes

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I get that rolling ball effect on the 10ELs, but on the 12s sometimes I feeling it at first but it goes away. Weird shit!


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[Vangysway]

Vangysway

I bow hunt deer and bear in Cali as well. I also had some 10x42 Viper HD's and upgraded to Swaro 10x42 SLC's last year. I wouldn't hesitate to return the Vipers and buy the SLC's as they are far superior optically to the Vipers. Put them on a tripod and you'll be amazed at what you can see.
I use a spotter (Swaro ATS 65) because CA has some big country in which you will need to reach way out to pick that buck out from behind a tree. Hunt with the 10's and save your money for a quality spotter because anything less will leave you with eye fatigue, headaches and frustration because you can't quite make out what you think looks like an animal at 700 plus yards.

Swaro 10X42 SLC's HD's @ the $1500-$2000 price point would be my choice.
Can't comment on bino's in the other price points.

Much appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Ryan Avery]

If one is interested a good site to peruse on bino comps and discussions is birdforum.com. Just about all the advances and improvements done by the alpha bino companies over the years was done to please this crowd first as they are the ones who buy most at the top price level and not us. The bird nerds demand true to life colors and also the flattest fields all the way to the edges. They only have one expensive piece of gear to buy so they tend to go for 'the best'. They prefer 8x as they hand hold longer but the same glass is in the 10x versions of each model that offers the choice.
I think Swaro is the only alpha brand that actually makes a bino specifically for the hunter market = SLC. As mentioned it has a tint that brings out more contrast to help pick out critters that are hiding in their settings. It also lets in a tad bit more light because it dosnet have the field flattening lens. Personally I prefer the El with the flattening lens and 20mm exit pupil. I wear my shades alot of the time while glassing in bright daylight. My shades are glass and have a tint that to me enhances contrast way more than the coating on the slc. Best of both worlds I guess. I use my El for everything not just hunting so thats why I went the EL way. You will find that pretty much every bino that is rated is typically compared to the optical performance of the EL swarovsion as it really does define the best man can make today. But can my eyes or your eyes notice the diff in !% light transmission? doubtful but there more to it than that when looking though the great glass versus the good glass.
The other factors of rating 'the best' are build quality, ergonomics, focus wheel performance, eye cup design, exit pupil and balance. Some of this is more personal than technical.
There are some new comers to the alpa pack that are contenders. Nikon has one as does the new era Zeiss Victory SF. They are also priced in the same outrageous category. Why because thats where swaro is! If they priced for less I honestly believe that the consumer would think they arent as good as the top dog! The Zeiss SF is also considered to be a top contender because it has better balance for long hand hold glassing, a more ergonomic focus wheel( than the swaro/leica) and 15% more fov than those two also.
Also if one dosent know...most of the alpha binos are again made for the bird nerds so they have more turns to focus so as to be more precise to pick out small detail. The only one I know of that has a much quicker less sensitive focus is the slc for obvious reasons.

My rating for 'the best' in top $ category is :

1-Swaro 8x 10x 12x15x
2-Leica 10x and pocket compacts
3-Zeiss (only the new Sf 10x)

And in the same order for resale demand with least depreciation.

If you ever want to buy one of the 3 above never buy one nib. Get an open box demo from a dealer after a show and save 7-800 bucks.

Boy that was a mouthful..sorry!

That birding comment doesn’t seem to hold up in my brain. I have a hard time believing they buy more ‘alpha’ glass than hunters. Yes, they get all nerdy about it. But the few I know seem to buy one pair and use them forever. The hunters I know seem to buy different ‘alpha’ binos ever couple of years.


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[Molon Labe]

That birding comment doesn’t seem to hold up in my brain. I have a hard time believing they buy more ‘alpha’ glass than hunters. Yes, they get all nerdy about it. But the few I know seem to buy one pair and use them forever. The hunters I know seem to buy different ‘alpha’ binos ever couple of years.

Ryan-we just talk/communicate with people that make up less than 1% of the hunting community...so it may just be observation bias.
Tesoro was probably drawing parallels between birdforum members and rokslide types.

I've heard stories of guys spending over $50,000 a year on flights/transportation to achieve "the big year".
I am friends/family with a bunch of "bird nerds" and they take it very serious...always having the best glass available.
The last couple years have been crazy with several guys breaking through 800...which was thought impossible for a while after Kometo hit 750 in the 90s. eBird and some of the other aps along with blogs are really helping out by increasing the ABA numbers!

St. Lawrence Island in Alaska last year had a couple rare warblers and a shrike that has people booking flights the next day for over $1000 from lower 48...that was a steal to check off three. Just like the people in our passion that spend 180K+ for a slam...

But there are a lot more "birders" out there than back country hunters...so by default more glass is bought in that industry.
If I remember correctly there are over 30 million people that consider themselves bird watchers in the US...100% have binos or spotter.
We probably only have 10 million hunters and the vast majority of hunters do not own binos let alone "alpha" glass (unless they are also a birder! haha)

 

[Ryan Avery]

Ryan-we just talk/communicate with people that make up less than 1% of the hunting community...so it may just be observation bias.
Tesoro was probably drawing parallels between birdforum members and rokslide types.

I've heard stories of guys spending over $50,000 a year on flights/transportation to achieve "the big year".
I am friends/family with a bunch of "bird nerds" and they take it very serious...always having the best glass available.
The last couple years have been crazy with several guys breaking through 800...which was thought impossible for a while after Kometo hit 750 in the 90s. eBird and some of the other aps along with blogs are really helping out by increasing the ABA numbers!

St. Lawrence Island in Alaska last year had a couple rare warblers and a shrike that has people booking flights the next day for over $1000 from lower 48...that was a steal to check off three. Just like the people in our passion that spend 180K+ for a slam...

But there are a lot more "birders" out there than back country hunters...so by default more glass is bought in that industry.
If I remember correctly there are over 30 million people that consider themselves bird watchers in the US...100% have binos or spotter.
We probably only have 10 million hunters and the vast majority of hunters do not own binos let alone "alpha" glass (unless they are also a birder! haha)

Maybe, but I've brought this up before with two optics companies and they told me the exact opposite. I asked them specifically about binoculars because I don't know many birders buying riflescopes

 

[Molon Labe]

Maybe, but I've brought this up before with two optics companies and they told me the exact opposite. I asked them specifically about binoculars because I don't know many birders buying riflescopes

hahaha! yeah...I don't get it. Spend all that time and money chasing some bird down...I suppose most song birds don't have much meat on them...

I think I'm going to head over to one of the birder sites and say that I spotted some thick-billed kingbirds down in AZ next January when I'm down there chasing coues. Tell them I will take them to a couple overlooks that they may be able to see the birds through spotters. Oh...and by the way if you guys see a dandy coues buck let me know. Wonder if that would work? Have a team of highly trained spotters that spend a ton of time behind the glass covering a ton of country spotting bucks for me?

 

[Ryan Avery]

hahaha! yeah...I don't get it. Spend all that time and money chasing some bird down...I suppose most song birds don't have much meat on them...

I think I'm going to head over to one of the birder sites and say that I spotted some thick-billed kingbirds down in AZ next January when I'm down there chasing coues. Tell them I will take them to a couple overlooks that they may be able to see the birds through spotters. Oh...and by the way if you guys see a dandy coues buck let me know. Wonder if that would work? Have a team of highly trained spotters that spend a ton of time behind the glass covering a ton of country spotting bucks for me?

I’m not saying I’m right. One of the guys I was talking to was from an alpha company. So the truth is out there


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[Beendare]

.... Have a team of highly trained spotters that spend a ton of time behind the glass covering a ton of country spotting bucks for me?

You will be hunting for hours before they have had their breakfast....but I like the way you think.

I get a funny mental picture of a bunch of Birders rolling in to the rough town of Arrivaca, Az....its the wild west down there....highest % population of felons in the US [according to the border agent] Drug mule illegals drinking at the bar until the Border patrol gives them their free ride back home. How do you ask in Spanish, "have you seen any Yellow bellied sap suckers?"

 

[Beendare]

Best bino I own; The Nikon EDG's

And I have Swaros, Zeiss...and sold the Leica geos

Only one close to $2k was the Geos $1750...and I sold them for what I paid for them 7 yrs later.

 

[ljalberta]

Could be wrong, but a gentleman from Swaro mentioned they sell more to hunters than birders once. He never specified if that was purely binos, or overall sales. Wish I could contribute more to the best bino talk. I have the SLCs in 10x42 and found them in my short comparisons to be the better bino in terms of ergonomics for me vs the ELs. The only difference optically I could pick up personally was the slightly sharper edges of the EL. One day I might have to take a look at these 12x50s though.

 

[Ronb]

I sold my 10x42 slc’s and now own 8.5x42 el’s. The number one difference and most important for me is the 20mm of eye relief with the el’s. The slc’s only have 16 or 17. This is huge when you bury your eyes in them for long periods. The slc’s are brighter, but that comes with shortcomings, just like the zeiss fl’s I owned previously. On sunny day’s you have a more washed out view. A bit less colorful image compared to the el.


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[sneaky]

I just wish they made the SLCs in 12x50.

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[wannakillabigbull]

I just wish they made the SLCs in 12x50.

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Ditto.

 

[SHTF]

Yaaaaah!!! My Maven's 11x45's made the Elite List

I cant say enough good things about the Mavens. They have been an absolute dream to look through on and off the tripod.

 

[Tesoro]

Could be wrong, but a gentleman from Swaro mentioned they sell more to hunters than birders once. He never specified if that was purely binos, or overall sales. Wish I could contribute more to the best bino talk. I have the SLCs in 10x42 and found them in my short comparisons to be the better bino in terms of ergonomics for me vs the ELs. The only difference optically I could pick up personally was the slightly sharper edges of the EL. One day I might have to take a look at these 12x50s though.

I wouldnt be surprised if in todays world the hunters have caught up! I hear many people say the 10x42 SLC has better ergonomics than the El but I have also found many think they are the same size but with different glass. The slc is shorter, narrower and not as heavy so its fits your hand better! They sure are nicer to pack around in the field.

 

[Tesoro]

I sold my 10x42 slc’s and now own 8.5x42 el’s. The number one difference and most important for me is the 20mm of eye relief with the el’s. The slc’s only have 16 or 17. This is huge when you bury your eyes in them for long periods. The slc’s are brighter, but that comes with shortcomings, just like the zeiss fl’s I owned previously. On sunny day’s you have a more washed out view. A bit less colorful image compared to the el.


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Agree that the El is easier on eyes and esp when they arent 25 years old anymore! Why did you go to 8.5x on the EL? They are the same size as the 10x so no ergo advantage. FOV is wider and easier to handhold when scanning. I have bounced back and forth on the 8.5 vs 10x and never could decide so went with the 10x. But I could easily switch to the 8.5x.

 

[Trial153]

The egos on the SLC work better for me as well, not that is dislike the ELs however I find long for the weight with the larger objectives.

That said I love the 8x32 ELs. They are the handiest glass I have ever owned.

Here is my line up. The only thing I may change or add is a pair of RF glass to mix.

12x50 ELS
10x42 SLC
8x32 ELs

 

[Ronb]

Agree that the El is easier on eyes and esp when they arent 25 years old anymore! Why did you go to 8.5x on the EL? They are the same size as the 10x so no ergo advantage. FOV is wider and easier to handhold when scanning. I have bounced back and forth on the 8.5 vs 10x and never could decide so went with the 10x. But I could easily switch to the 8.5x.

Field of view, brightness, and easier to hold. For some reason they give me a little more of a wow factor then the 10’s.


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[Tesoro]

Field of view, brightness, and easier to hold. For some reason they give me a little more of a wow factor then the 10’s.


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Light transmission rating is the same as the 10x but I wonder if the much larger fov creates an illusion.

 

[Ronb]

That light transmission number doesn’t really tell you exactly the brightness of a binocular. The exit pupil which is the objective divided by the power, will tell you on paper which bino will gather more light. Keep in mind there are many factors that are gonna make one binoculars or another seem more or less bright. When comparing equal models like the EL‘s. The higher exit pupil will be the brighter binoculars. In that grouping the 10 x 50 then the 8.5 x 42 and so on.


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