.001, .003, .006 Arrows Technically Why?

[wildernessmaster]

Generally "straightness" is not the only issue between .001" and .006" arrows. When you pay up for the .001" arrows you are also trying to get a set of arrows that are all spine matched for consistency........which IMO has a bigger effect in down range accuracy. I have no issues whatsoever determining which of my arrows are out of spec........just from shooting them. And a RAM spine tester confirms that every time. But I also have a 32 1/2"+ draw length, so the tighter the specs the more consistent the arrows shoot.

What is "consistency"? Consistency of groupings? Consistency of the arrow construction (what dimensions)?

In the article below (granted not a large input study) a lot of interesting things were observed. Many of these I have witnessed in other tolerance domains such as casings, bullets, etc. Specifically:
1. The weight difference consistencies were not massive
2. There were cases where the consistencies favored the cheaper arrows
3. The actual observed straightness testing produced more favorable results for the cheaper arrows.

All that said, there is "lot" bias in this - I KNOW! Lot bias is where the tester could have lucked out and got a cheap set of arrows who's aggregate tolerance was higher than the more stringent tolerant arrows - because its a max tolerance criteria.

But still interesting.

GOHUNT // The Hunting Company

GOHUNT empowers hunters with the tools, technology, gear, and resources they need to get the most out of their time in the field.

www.gohunt.com

 

[Blockcaver]

The referenced arrow test was for Gold Tip micros, 12 of ea grade. I doubt that the next dozen of each from Gold Tip would check out the same, nor would Carbon Express, Easton, etc. Bottom line. always check the straightness of the arrow, broadhead and nock alignment, then shoot them to see that they fly normally, no matter what spec arrow you buy.

 

[Trial153]

What the downside to starting with as straight as shaft that is possible? If that's a variable can be taken out of the equation then why not do it

 

[Billy Goat]

What the downside to starting with as straight as shaft that is possible? If that's a variable can be taken out of the equation then why not do it

Cause it costs too much, duh.

@

 

[Zac]

I have been considering buying some really thick shafts like the Rampage 150 spine and spinning them down on a lathe for perfect straightness. Then rebranding and selling them on Ebay lol.

 

[5MilesBack]

What is "consistency"? Consistency of groupings? Consistency of the arrow construction (what dimensions)?

Consistency in straightness, consistency in static spine, consistency in dynamic spine, consistency in construction, consistency in form and shooting.........all lead to better consistency in accuracy.

When I can put the first arrow down the middle of the bullseye, then each additional arrow on the bullseye ring at 12 o-clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, and 9 o'clock........I know all those consistencies are working. When you get a bad arrow.......you'll know it, no matter how many times you shoot it and how much nock tuning you do to it.

The bottom line is.....if you have some arrows that hit behind your pins and others that don't, then there is some form of inconsistency there coming from somewhere. That's part of the joy of shooting a lot......figuring out where that inconsistency is, and fixing it........or turning that arrow into a garden stake. A perfectionist will have a heck of a lot more garden stakes with .006" arrows than .001" arrows, which will end up costing more even in the short run. But to the average shooter.......it won't matter much at all.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I’ve had great luck with Gold Tip Hunter arrows.

 

[Reburn]

A perfectionist will have a heck of a lot more garden stakes with .006" arrows than .001" arrows,

Your a genius. Garden stakes for my pepper plants. You win the post of the day sir. Thank you for that. Now I know what to do with my bad arrows.

 

[danwattsmessick]

Your a genius. Garden stakes for my pepper plants. You win the post of the day sir. Thank you for that. Now I know what to do with my bad arrows.

I also use bad arrows as turkey decoy stakes, if you need another idea.

 

[Zac]

What is "consistency"? Consistency of groupings? Consistency of the arrow construction (what dimensions)?

In the article below (granted not a large input study) a lot of interesting things were observed. Many of these I have witnessed in other tolerance domains such as casings, bullets, etc. Specifically:
1. The weight difference consistencies were not massive
2. There were cases where the consistencies favored the cheaper arrows
3. The actual observed straightness testing produced more favorable results for the cheaper arrows.

All that said, there is "lot" bias in this - I KNOW! Lot bias is where the tester could have lucked out and got a cheap set of arrows who's aggregate tolerance was higher than the more stringent tolerant arrows - because its a max tolerance criteria.

But still interesting.

GOHUNT // The Hunting Company

GOHUNT empowers hunters with the tools, technology, gear, and resources they need to get the most out of their time in the field.

www.gohunt.com

Great article here.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I just haven’t found the inconveniences in weight of the arrows in “cheaper” arrows. I have found inconsistencies in weight, but that’s in vanes.

I guess we all have different goals and what we consider accurate. I shoot at quarter-sized dots on my targets for practice. If I’m within an 1” of that dot at 50 yards, that’s good enough for me. I’ve been able to do that with everything from arrows I built or arrows I’ve ordered prebuilt online.

Maybe it’s because my standards for accuracy is alot looser than most everyone else is why it doesn’t matter to me.

 

[GotDraw?]

here's the funny thing... we're all fixed on the .001 or .003...

Put a wrap on your arrow and you create couple thousandths ridge on your arrow. No one questions that...?

Agree w/earlier post-- It would be very insightful for someone to set up a hooter shooter and test .001 vs .006 arrow shafts and check the dispersion for those shot groups for several dozen shots each. Indoors, no wind.

JL

 

[Billy Goat]

here's the funny thing... we're all fixed on the .001 or .003...

Put a wrap on your arrow and you create couple thousandths ridge on your arrow. No one questions that...?

Agree w/earlier post-- It would be very insightful for someone to set up a hooter shooter and test .001 vs .006 arrow shafts and check the dispersion for those shot groups for several dozen shots each. Indoors, no wind.

JL

I don't use wraps, partly for exactly what you described.


I have a Hooter Shooter. You can definitely tell the difference in straightness with it, not so much or even at all with a field point, but broadheads it can make a big difference. Been around 4 years since I have messed with it much, but your broadhead groups at 60 will open way up with .0025's and .003's as compared to .001's. A .003 arrow just isn't as good as a .001, if it matters is up to you. As much money as I have in everything else, another $20-30 per dozen doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[5MilesBack]

Agree w/earlier post-- It would be very insightful for someone to set up a hooter shooter and test .001 vs .006 arrow shafts and check the dispersion for those shot groups for several dozen shots each. Indoors, no wind.

Some guys have used a HS just for nock tuning........even with .001" arrows. Everything can affect accuracy and consistency, but getting a consistent dynamic spine reaction out of every arrow will impact that the most IMO.

And if I'm not mistaken, most manufacturers measure their straightness over a 28" span. If you have a .006" arrow at 28 inches, what does that straightness look like at 30" or 32" for long draw guys?

What I find even more interesting is that the original poster has had several posts in the last week (including this thread that he started on Nov 8th), but when you hover over his username........it says "Last Seen - Nov 4, 2020". Is there a glitch in the system, or is he in a time warp?

 

[Billy Goat]

Some guys have used a HS just for nock tuning........even with .001" arrows. Everything can affect accuracy and consistency, but getting a consistent dynamic spine reaction out of every arrow will impact that the most IMO.

And if I'm not mistaken, most manufacturers measure their straightness over a 28" span. If you have a .006" arrow at 28 inches, what does that straightness look like at 30" or 32" for long draw guys?

What I find even more interesting is that the original poster has had several posts in the last week (including this thread that he started on Nov 8th), but when you hover over his username........it says "Last Seen - Nov 4, 2020". Is there a glitch in the system, or is he in a time warp?

I'd assume glitch in the system. We spoke in PM's on Thursday.

 

[GotDraw?]

I don't use wraps, partly for exactly what you described.


I have a Hooter Shooter. You can definitely tell the difference in straightness with it, not so much or even at all with a field point, but broadheads it can make a big difference. Been around 4 years since I have messed with it much, but your broadhead groups at 60 will open way up with .0025's and .003's as compared to .001's. A .003 arrow just isn't as good as a .001, if it matters is up to you. As much money as I have in everything else, another $20-30 per dozen doesn't bother me one bit.

So, I'm more than a bit OCD. Love to hear how much you generally witnessed broadhead groups opened up at 60yds between .001 to .006 shaft tolerance. And agree that every variable you can control leads to lower shot dispersion. Also agree that $30 or more is nothing money-wise. The cost differential pales between .001 to .006 when I add up Victory TKO VAPs, titanium inserts, Firenocks and Iron Wills...

I am going to switch over to Iron Will insert technology from Titus Titanium VAP-style in/outsert. I had a Titus break off in a deer when it fell over dead. Perhaps an unfair test, but I won't have it happen again.

JL

 

[Billy Goat]

So, I'm more than a bit OCD. Love to hear how much you generally witnessed broadhead groups opened up at 60yds between .001 to .006 shaft tolerance. And agree that every variable you can control leads to lower shot dispersion. Also agree that $30 or more is nothing money-wise. The cost differential pales between .001 to .006 when I add up Victory TKO VAPs, titanium inserts, Firenocks and Iron Wills...

I am going to switch over to Iron Will insert technology from Titus Titanium VAP-style in/outsert. I had a Titus break off in a deer when it fell over dead. Perhaps an unfair test, but I won't have it happen again.

JL

I can't remember exactly what the numbers were on the difference. It was surprising. I think the groups were half the size with .001's versus the .003's. Seems it was around 1-2" groups with fieldpoints, keep in mind it will put the same arrow back in the same hole. Broadheads were probably close to twice the group size with a .001 arrow, 3-4 times with .003's. Basically 3.5-4" groups with broadheads at 67 yards with .001's, 6-7" with .003's. At that time I was using Spitfire and wackem broadheads. I also played with innerlocs, Strickland helix, slick trick, woodsman, and a few others while I was trying to get several bows to tune.

This is all pulled from memory tho. I'll see what I can find in notes/pictures.

 

[5MilesBack]

So, I'm more than a bit OCD.

I can't imagine how anyone that's even a bit OCD could use VAP's and all those micro-diameter components. Those drove me crazy.

 

[GotDraw?]

I can't imagine how anyone that's even a bit OCD could use VAP's and all those micro-diameter components. Those drove me crazy.

Perhaps--- but a few years back I double lung/pass through'd a 1500lb Yukon bull twice. First time at 40yds and second time at 30. The 30 yd pass through then hit a 2" diameter sapling trunk 10ft on the other side of the bull and completely split it in half. Draw weight was only 55lbs at the time.

Yes, micro diameter shafts are a bit of PITA, but you can't argue that success. It's easier to drive a 1/2" diameter rod into the ground vs a 10" diameter pipe. Splitting hairs, but micro diameter shaft concentrates the mass into smaller area to punch through animals and has less diameter to create friction.

Bottom line is they work really well for me.

JL

 

[N2TRKYS]

Perhaps--- but a few years back I double lung/pass through'd a 1500lb Yukon bull twice. First time at 40yds and second time at 30. The 30 yd pass through then hit a 2" diameter sapling trunk 10ft on the other side of the bull and completely split it in half. Draw weight was only 55lbs at the time.

Yes, micro diameter shafts are a bit of PITA, but you can't argue that success. It's easier to drive a 1/2" diameter rod into the ground vs a 10" diameter pipe. Splitting hairs, but micro diameter shaft concentrates the mass into smaller area to punch through animals and has less diameter to create friction.

Bottom line is they work really well for me.

JL

In your pipe analogy, does it matter if they both have the same size head on the end of the pipe?