1000+ Yard, Cross Canyon, hunting hit %

[eod.mickelson]

There are still to many variables to say.
If I'm shooting across a canyon here in Idaho, good solid prone position ,I can see the terrain of the canyon well, I have good wind speed and direction via kestrel at my location, I can see vegetation and movement of it and am familiar a bit with the area, and my target is mid to top 1/3 of the hillside, I like my odds in the 70% realm.
Now, new area, I'm at the top 1/3, can't see vegetation movement well, switching wind from 1-3 o'clock, target in the bottom and up canyon from me, I don't like my odds. There's just so much nuance to shooting that far

 

[mtnrunner260]

I'd say with my current skill level
10%
I've got a long ways to go before I would be able to take a shot like that on an animal.

 

[wind gypsy]

In “easy” or good conditions I can consistently call wind out at 1,000-1,100 yards to within 2mph the vast majority of time. For the current gun I hunt with the most, that’s going to be around a 50% to 55% first round hit rate, with near 100% second round hit rate. In “hard” or bad conditions- switchy wind, lots of broken terrain in between me and the target, etc- I will be +/- 4 mph, which will put me at around 30% first round hit rate, with second round hit rate again being very high- above 90%.

That’s not theoretical, that’s measured over the last 7-8 years and about 40,000 rounds doing exactly that.

Say you had a big 338 rather than a 6xc, how would that change things?

 

[hereinaz]

I would be very low, maybe break 20% in unknown conditions with wind that high with a first shot. Maybe get higher with lots of time on glass throughout the day getting a feel for localized wind. The longest range shot for me have come in very favorable wind conditions.

Bullet weight and BC has a huge effect on hit percentage. A 7mm 180gr at 3100 is better than a .308 180gr at 3100. If a shooter can manage recoil in field positions, a .308 230gr class bullet can improves odds.

AB WEZ can demonstrate that. WEZ disproves a lot of “talk” on the internet. Math is what it is…

A big 338 can make the 1000 look like a chip shot, but that is adding in a lot of variables most rifleman cannot manage. Weight of gun, recoil, etc. that all requires additional skills.

Form is right on with analysis. That’s math, but most cannot call wind very well, that includes me. Unless I have the time to really dial in wind call, I don’t shoot because it is unknown.

At 1000, with a suppressor, my plan if I had opportunity and wasn’t comfortable the hit % is high enough, I might take a sighted 200 yards from the target to get a wind call. Like others. I am much better with a second shot…

 

[amassi]

That all makes perfect sense to me. And yes I'm sure you're going to be ridiculed for that response but that's just how people are at times. I like the no BS approach.

You should see the absolute pearl clutching righteous indignation if he ever mentions breaking down wounded animals with a hip or back of neck shot

 

[Chad717]

I would be very low, maybe break 20% in unknown conditions with wind that high with a first shot. Maybe get higher with lots of time on glass throughout the day getting a feel for localized wind. The longest range shot for me have come in very favorable wind conditions.

Bullet weight and BC has a huge effect on hit percentage. A 7mm 180gr at 3100 is better than a .308 180gr at 3100. If a shooter can manage recoil in field positions, a .308 230gr class bullet can improves odds.

AB WEZ can demonstrate that. WEZ disproves a lot of “talk” on the internet. Math is what it is…

A big 338 can make the 1000 look like a chip shot, but that is adding in a lot of variables most rifleman cannot manage. Weight of gun, recoil, etc. that all requires additional skills.

Form is right on with analysis. That’s math, but most cannot call wind very well, that includes me. Unless I have the time to really dial in wind call, I don’t shoot because it is unknown.

At 1000, with a suppressor, my plan if I had opportunity and wasn’t comfortable the hit % is high enough, I might take a sighted 200 yards from the target to get a wind call. Like others. I am much better with a second shot…

The 338 caliber‘s with bigger bullets and faster speed do make a big difference shooting that distance, I don’t shoot that big of a gun because the animals need that kind of energy to die it is because the wind can vary and that is the most difficult part about shooting long range.My gun has a 500 yard zero and shoots a 300 grain bullet at 3300fps with that weight and speed it cuts through the wind much better than a lesser cartridge and makes it more ethical for long range hunting. That being said I’m not always going to use that gun if I don’t need it. I have killed two bull elk in the thousand yard ranges, one bear at 9:05 and one bear at 1200, multiple coyotes between 12 and 1300 yards. Not to mention all the rock chucks and squirrels. I shoot a lot and have practiced a lot. If the wind is doing something crazy I will not shoot that far but I am here to tell you that if there’s an animal standing there at 1000 yards it’s going to be in trouble. Knocking on wood very hard and loud I have yet to wound an animal shooting that far. My rifle shoots very good it has taking years if reloading to achieve this. I average inch and a half groups at 500 yards when I zero the gun.

 

[Reburn]

Two of those was hedging my bets with an unknown wind so that if I missed it would be a clean miss (both clean missed); one was due to a bino being heated up by the truck and giving wildly incorrect Data (clean miss), two were due to incorrect wind (one miss, one graze), and two were due to a ranging error (clean miss, then corrected and killed).

This.

Its easier to take the shot when the wind will push the bullet into the vitals and shoulder vs guts and hind quarters. The wind direction to me makes as much difference as speed.

For me 35% clean miss, 40% bad shot rodeo, 25% good shot first round.

 

[Formidilosus]

Say you had a big 338 rather than a 6xc, how would that change things?

A 300gr OTM at 3,000fos MV, hard conditions (+/- 4mph) is 43% first round hit rate-


It’s 14% better than the 6XC, but actual in the field by myself it’s not that much better and might actually be worse, because it’s harder to shoot and spotting your own shots on demand is very hard. By yourself, the increased performance isn’t really all that usable due to recoil, and I have seen few people that can shoot a sub 15lb big 338 such as a 33xc better than 2 MOA in the field. With a spotter, yes.


The highest hit rate across the board so far out to at least 1,200 yards in live shooting has been the 6UM. It’s been better than any 7mm, 30cal, or 338, and in Ryan’s 8’ish pound suppressed rifle, you watch every shot through the scope, it recoils about like a 6.5cm, and is extremely consistent. I would absolutely choose it over a big 338 for sub 1,200 yards.
Most people are fooling themselves believing that the big magnums are helping them.

 

[wind gypsy]

The 338 caliber‘s with bigger bullets and faster speed do make a big difference shooting that distance, I don’t shoot that big of a gun because the animals need that kind of energy to die it is because the wind can vary and that is the most difficult part about shooting long range.My gun has a 500 yard zero and shoots a 300 grain bullet at 3300fps with that weight and speed it cuts through the wind much better than a lesser cartridge and makes it more ethical for long range hunting. That being said I’m not always going to use that gun if I don’t need it. I have killed two bull elk in the thousand yard ranges, one bear at 9:05 and one bear at 1200, multiple coyotes between 12 and 1300 yards. Not to mention all the rock chucks and squirrels. I shoot a lot and have practiced a lot. If the wind is doing something crazy I will not shoot that far but I am here to tell you that if there’s an animal standing there at 1000 yards it’s going to be in trouble. Knocking on wood very hard and loud I have yet to wound an animal shooting that far. My rifle shoots very good it has taking years if reloading to achieve this. I average inch and a half groups at 500 yards when I zero the gun.

Where do you shoot at 500 yards with good enough conditions for a solid zero?

 

[Chad717]

Where do you shoot at 500 yards with good enough conditions for a solid zero?

Out at my buddies 2000 acre ranch, solid shooting bench or prone off bipods only. If you use anything other than what you’re going to use in the field the point of impact will be different, early in the morning with zero wind to have a dead on zero. I shoot out there up to 1500 yards to verify all ranges.

 

[Chad717]

A 300gr OTM at 3,000fos MV, hard conditions (+/- 4mph) is 43% first round hit rate-
View attachment 582964

It’s 14% better than the 6XC, but actual in the field by myself it’s not that much better and might actually be worse, because it’s harder to shoot and spotting your own shots on demand is very hard. By yourself, the increased performance isn’t really all that usable due to recoil, and I have seen few people that can shoot a sub 15lb big 338 such as a 33xc better than 2 MOA in the field. With a spotter, yes.


The highest hit rate across the board so far out to at least 1,200 yards in live shooting has been the 6UM. It’s been better than any 7mm, 30cal, or 338, and in Ryan’s 8’ish pound suppressed rifle, you watch every shot through the scope, it recoils about like a 6.5cm, and is extremely consistent. I would absolutely choose it over a big 338 for sub 1,200 yards.
Most people are fooling themselves believing that the big magnums are helping them.

A lot of what you are talking about I agree with but the fact that you think a smaller gun will out shoot it maybe for the average person but I have very similar guns to what you are listing, 6 mm dasher, 65 284, 28 Nosler and none of them will come close to the wind drift variables that the 338 snipe tac has. I know what you’re saying about the smaller guns ability to buck to wind the 6 dasher for what it is is crazy accurate even with some wind but it’s the hunting conditions when you cannot accurately predict the wind is where the big gun will shine. I have tested it many times back to back in the same conditions out at the ranch and we were talking a good 12 inches of wind drift difference which is enough to drift off of the animal or wound it. I will always use the smallest gun possible to get the job done when I am hunting I am mostly doing spot and stalk and have a couple guns with me and only use the Snipetac when need be. I also hate to say this because I don’t ever wanna rely on this but the bigger gun will also typically put more damage on the animal and a bigger wound channel if a bad shot does occur.

 

[ElPollo]

Using the WEZ now: same rifle- 6mm 115gr DTAC at 2,820fps MV, 5K DA-

Easy conditions, +/- 2 MPH, 53% first round hit rate-
View attachment 582723



Hard conditions, +/- 4 MPH, 29% first round hit rate-
View attachment 582724


So spot on.

I don’t have anything from the last couple of seasons hunting past 1,000 yards, but do have a couple past 900y, and the cold bore shoot here, and shooting with a few RS’ers.

Elk at 912 yards, two lung/heart shots 7-8” apart- I was the spotter calling wind.

Elk at 970 yards, first round lung shot, I was spotter calling wind.

Cold bore Challange here, 960 yards- both hits on a 2 MOA target. I was the shooter.

1,208 yards on 8” target, first round hit- I was the spotter calling the wind.

1,162 yards, 20” target, first round hit, I was the spotter calling the wind.

In shooting with a lot of people that are supposed to be competent, first round hits in mountain terrain that they’ve never shot in before, with any wind at all is somewhere between 0% and the absolute best of about 50%.

Anyone who looks at the WEZ and has even a cursory understanding of wind speeds, topography, probability and statistics should gulp hard and reconsider anything they were planning to shoot at. But no one gives a crap about probability and statistics.

 

[5811]

I shot at 18x24" steel from a little over 1k this summer in South Dakota. My first time dialing and shooting at that range. Spotted the first miss and hit the second with a wind correction.

Wind just seems like such a wildcard at that range, and that was flat ground through a couple draws. Thinking about wind in drastic topography changes at that distance seems like you would have as many as 3-4 different winds to accurately estimate. Well beyond my abilities, thats for sure. So put me down for 0%

 

[ElPollo]

I still remember the first cross-canyon shot I ever saw. It was more like 450-500 yards, but it was impressive. I was doing pig control on an island in the Pacific with a guy. We spotted a pig on the opposite ridge line and he set up on it in a sitting position with a heavy barreled mini-14 with a standard 3-9 scope with a plex reticle. As he got ready to shoot, another pig walked out in front of us about 40 yards down hill. I hissed at him to get his attention and pointed at the second pig. He lowered his barrel and killed the first pig, then reacquired on the now running quartering away pig on the next ridge and dropped it like a bad habit. Maybe two seconds between shots. I think there was like 5-10 seconds of silence before I picked up my jaw and paraphrased something from the TV series Kung-fu like, “Master, teach me what you know.” He shrugged his shoulders and said, “Meh, I’m just a lobber.“ After that day, I called him Annie Oakley.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I’m an experienced long range shooter. Cross canyon, 1,000 yard shooting and adding in a 15 mph wind is getting into “elite” status in my book.

Wind is very unpredictable across canyons and rarely has the exact same wind reading from the shooting position.

 

[Rock-o]

Average hunter has zero percent odds. At 600 yards the average guy can’t hit 2 MoA with zero wind.

"Average" shooting is what I consider my skill level, but I'm hitting that 600 yard target with no wind 100%. The shot in question, however, I would not take though on steel I feel I'd do pretty well. The wind in that scenario is going to hold me back.

 

[TaperPin]

If you can hit a 2moa 600 yd gong first shot, then that’s darn good shooting - nothing wrong with that.

 

[General RE LEE]

I plug in the FPS marked on the box of Hornady Whitetail Hunter, enter into an app I downloaded, dial my Barska and let her rip.

 

[Rock-o]