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[Hunt41]

Informative read. A very hot topic. We need to stick together.

 

[IDWapiti]

How is BHA..."liberal"???? C'mon. Enough with the labels, people.

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

You are a Conservative if you say so. Except, when it comes to Conservation and what benefits you is what I'm hearing. I'm a wee bit that way myself as you will see by reading on. I agree that Federal ownership and management of huge amounts of land benefits us hunters. Personally I would suffer if all Federal or certain Federal land was transferred to the States. However, I don't believe our Founding Fathers envisioned this. I can't speculate if they would have liked it or not. When they were alive there was very little Federal public land. That was the status quo. The gigantic land purchases in the 1800s where inconceivable. It was more land than anyone knew what to do with. It's like other things where our country grew and changed. We got all this federal public land. According to the model our Founders had, I believe all this land was supposed to be turned over to the States. It never really happened and here we are. I'm not a huge pro land transfer proponent. I am closer to that side than I am to BHA and other liberals that are in favor of more regulations and restrictions. I'm sort of in the middle leaning with the Conservatives, even though this doesn't personally benefit me. I'm not Conservative or Liberal on issues based on whether it benefits me or not. I lean more and more Libertarian every day. You throw a lot of sweeping generalities like free market management almost wiped out all wildlife in the US and that's an undeniable fact? LOL really? Hunting with no hunting regulations decimated many species of wildlife. That's fact. Hunting regulations were written and implemented. It wasn't regulating the market. Cheers Bill

So it wasn’t unregulated market hunting that nearly wiped out the Buffalo entirely? We should just get rid of the Lacey act, etc?

Believing in the North American model and seeing the value in federally owned public lands doesn’t make one “not a conservative.” If that means I agree with someone with more liberal views so be it, maybe we can get something good done that benefits all of us for once.

I’m a libertarian more than anything, but I see the value and purpose of government in certain realms, particularly in regulating wildlife, protecting the environment, and public land.

 

[Billinsd]

So it wasn’t unregulated market hunting that nearly wiped out the Buffalo entirely? We should just get rid of the Lacey act, etc?

Yes it was market hunting, no we shouldn't get rid of Lacy act? I'm not sure about etc., because I don't know what you mean? Purely free market management didn't nearly wipe out the Buffalo is what I was referring to. I think my head exploded after reading that. : )

Believing in the North American model and seeing the value in federally owned public lands doesn’t make one “not a conservative.” If that means I agree with someone with more liberal views so be it, maybe we can get something good done that benefits all of us

Ok, here goes, you are saying that you can be a Conservative and see value in federal public lands? Absolutely, why not? You can be strongly in favor of federal public land transfer and still see value in Federal public lands. You'd probably not see as much value as those against transfers. You don't have to be Conservative on everything to call yourself a Conservative. I'm not Conservative on everything.

I’m a libertarian more than anything, but I see the value and purpose of government in certain realms, particularly in regulating wildlife, protecting the environment, and public land.

I'm becoming more and more Libertarian each day. I say I'm Conservative, but very Libertarian. I agree with you too. Conservatives and Libertarians see value conserving wildlife and the environment. Protecting the environment and public land is where we differ and the word is "protect". Carry on.

 

[Newtosavage]

Correct. State Land is not public land. We are lucky to be able to hunt state land in most states across the west, but those rules are subject to arbitrary decisions and don't require public meetings. This is still a shit sandwich.

State land is not public land? What kind of alternative universe are you talking about?

 

[Billinsd]

How is BHA..."liberal"???? C'mon. Enough with the labels, people.

Liberal leaning. They are against land development, oil and gas exploration, mining, roads making it easier to get into the back country and deregulation. There are others I've missed. It's easier to say liberal leaning. It's ok to lean liberal on some things or all things. The Sierra Club is very liberal. BHA is like Sierra Club lite. That's just my observations and opinions. However, BHA does a lot of great Conservation work on the local level!!

 

[Billinsd]

State land is not public land? What kind of alternative universe are you talking about?

It's difficult to express yourself in written words for most people. I'm the opposite. Federal public land is not the same as State public land is what he probably means. I sure hope..

 

[IDWapiti]

I've haven't seen - in their bylaws OR in their mission - a single reference to blanket opposition to development or extractive industries. Do they voice opposition from time to time to specific initiatives if they contradict mission language that drives their work? OF COURSE. Choosing to ignore nuance and shades of grey when it comes to land use policy may be convenient, but it certainlyh doesn't make you an authority on characterizing the work BHA has done on behalf of millions of hunters and fishers.

 

[BuzzH]

State land is not public land? What kind of alternative universe are you talking about?

The universe called reality...State Lands ARE NOT public lands.

Go try to hunt a piece of your "public state land" in Colorado that isn't leased by the CPW...enjoy the ticket.

Try to camp over-night on your "public State Land" in Wyoming...again, enjoy the ticket. Oh, and forget about having a campfire on your "public State Land" in Wyoming as well, that will get you a ticket as well.

Study up...Schaaf knows what he's talking about.

 

[Billinsd]

The universe called reality...State Lands ARE NOT public lands.

WHO OWNS STATE LANDS??? The public of that state. What you mean to say! God I hope so is they are not public use lands.

Go try to hunt a piece of your "public state land" in Colorado that isn't leased by the CPW...enjoy the ticket.
Try to camp over-night on your "public State Land" in Wyoming...again, enjoy the ticket. Oh, and forget about having a campfire on your "public State Land" in Wyoming as well, that will get you a ticket as well.

What's the price of tea in China, right now? Who cares, so what.

Study up...Schaaf knows what he's talking about.

lol. You mean he needs to do some "unlearning" ? Lol. You mean public use. I'm all over this grammar and ciphering, 'cause I tot mi kids too read and right, not the school. Sometimes I tell my kids you are too damn logical and critical of others for being so young, then bang it's my fault. Carry on...

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

WHO OWNS STATE LANDS??? The public of that state. What you mean to say! God I hope so is they are not public use lands. What's the price of tea in China, right now? Who cares, so what.lol. You mean he needs to do some "unlearning" ? Lol. You mean public use. I'm all over this grammar and ciphering, 'cause I tot mi kids too read and right, not the school. Sometimes I tell my kids you are too damn logical and critical of others for being so young, then bang it's my fault. Carry on...

I’ve disagreed with Buzz before, but he is absolutely right here. State Trust land is NOT public land.

https://land.az.gov/faqs

Do a little reading above, says so straight from the horses mouth. It’s similar for State trust land across the west. If you don’t have a recreation permit you will be charged with criminal trespass.

 

[justinspicher]

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...

cpw.state.co.us

pretty much lays out what you can and can’t do as well as where you can or can’t go.

 

[Goatie]

I’m about as a conservative small government guy as they come, but when it comes to conservation things get wonky and we realize our gut instincts about politics and reality don’t always mesh.

I like the free market, I also like small government, as well as local control. But purely free market management almost wiped out most of the wildlife in this county by the early 20th century. That’s undeniable fact. Government intervention was absolutely necessary.

Purely free market sale of the lands out west would’ve surely meant hunting would be something limited to the very wealthy who could buy vast tracts of land or afford to lease access. Many of our greatest landscapes would be lost to development. Things like public DIY hunting wouldn’t be a thing without mass federal land grabs.

Finally the only place I can “disperse” camp in my state is on National Forrest land. I can plop my happy ass anywhere I please in Wayne NF and pitch a tent far away from another soul. I can drink my whiskey, build a fire, and literally be a happy camper without paying a dime. Being able to do so on any BLM/NF land across this great nation is the ultimate freedom in my mind. Driving across the west and being able to roam, camp, fish, hunt, shoot, etc millions of incredible acres is a liberating experience unmatched by anything else in the world IMO. It’s what our founders would’ve wanted us to be able to do.

Contrast that with state forests and parks? Camping is restricted to shitty campgrounds where I’m stuck next to a bunch of other assholes. I can’t drink alcohol, prohibited by state law. Better not build a fire outside of designated fire rings. I’ll probably have to pay for a campsite. Etc. Etc. This restrictiveness isn’t limited to my state. In Montana I have to pay a fee to camp on State land, as is the case with many states out west. In Michigan this year I had to buy a $35 access sticker to drive onto any of the state parks.

State control of public land sounds great in theory. However in practice federal control seems to work out much better, and offers a greater degree of freedom for those enjoying public lands.

Buckeye hits the nail on the head. Perfectly put

 

[Sccritterkiller]

The universe called reality...State Lands ARE NOT public lands.

Go try to hunt a piece of your "public state land" in Colorado that isn't leased by the CPW...enjoy the ticket.

Try to camp over-night on your "public State Land" in Wyoming...again, enjoy the ticket. Oh, and forget about having a campfire on your "public State Land" in Wyoming as well, that will get you a ticket as well.

Study up...Schaaf knows what he's talking about.

Add to that some states have laws in their state constitutions that allows selling of state lands or mineral and timber rights to said lands to make up for defieciets in the state budget or a host of many other reasons depending on the state constitution. So state land, in some states, could literally be sold tomorrow and it would be considered perfectly legal per the state constitution.

"Give lands back to the states" sounds real good from the campaign trail...until you start looking into the nuances of that statement.

In 1884 when TX became a state it had 175 million acres of public land that became state property....just like the original 13 colonies they all kept there public land..How much "public land" is now left in those 14 states?