209 Primers Sticking in New LR Muzzleloader?

strousek

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I have an older, maybe 8 years, CVA Optima that shoots great but is very basic. In the last couple years however I switched to Blackhorn 209 and have had great results. Only problem is sometimes, I would say about 1 in 4, 209 primers get stuck in the breech plug after firing. Never had this problem with Pyrodex so I would assume it has to do with how hot the Blackhorn burns. I have tried 3 different primers and all 3 have had issues.

I recently drew a muzzleloader pronghorn tag in NM and have a 99% chance of drawing a muzzleloader tag in my home state of CO with my 9 preference points this year. I want to make sure I am covered on filling at least one of these tags with a mature animal so extending my range to shoot wont hurt. I am looking into buying a new muzzleloader and of course everything has its pro's and con's. Currently the CVA Accura has my attention but I am worried about the 209 primer.

Does anyone have experience with the CVA Accura V2 or LR shooting Blackhorn powder and having primer sticking issues? It appears to be the same breech plug as my old Optima so I am nervous. Given that CO has a no scope rule I don't see me needing a 500 yard muzzleloader like the Paramount or Remington 700 UML, however these are specifically designed to use rifle primers so that there is no issue with the hotter Blackhorn charge warping primers. I can say that the weight of these rifles alone has me wanting to steer clear.

Any other advise on a solid 300 yard muzzleloader would be appreciated. I already have a local gunsmith lined up to drill and tap the barrel for open sites as most of these long range muzzy's only come with factory scope mounts and not open sites.
 
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strousek

strousek

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Have you cleaned/chipped the carbon from the flash channel?

View attachment 287168
I have not tried this yet. I purchased a new breech plug for my CVA that is designed for the Blackhorn primer and had issues within the first 10 shots. I can't have more than 40 or 50 shots total fired through the breech plug so I wonder how often they would recommend a full flash channel cleaning. I will look into this tonight and see how much carbon I get out.
 

ENCORE

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I have not tried this yet. I purchased a new breech plug for my CVA that is designed for the Blackhorn primer and had issues within the first 10 shots. I can't have more than 40 or 50 shots total fired through the breech plug so I wonder how often they would recommend a full flash channel cleaning. I will look into this tonight and see how much carbon I get out.
I'm not sure the size of the bit for a CVA, but someone reading may know. TC's are 1/8".
Some guys clean every 5 rounds, others 10, some only when they clean the rifle.
I would suggest that every time you shoot and clean, verify the channel is clear.
 
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strousek

strousek

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I'm not sure the size of the bit for a CVA, but someone reading may know. TC's are 1/8".
Some guys clean every 5 rounds, others 10, some only when they clean the rifle.
I would suggest that every time you shoot and clean, verify the channel is clear.
I always verify the channel is clear and clean the breech plug out with solvent and pipe cleaners after each day at the range. I just haven't ever ran the drill bit down the flash channel. If that was so dirty I would assume each primer would stick. Seems odd to me that I have random primers stick here and there and from different brands. I did some more digging on this site about the Accura V2 and everyone mentions they shoot Blackhorn and haven't found anyone else mention stuck primers.
 

ENCORE

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I always verify the channel is clear and clean the breech plug out with solvent and pipe cleaners after each day at the range. I just haven't ever ran the drill bit down the flash channel. If that was so dirty I would assume each primer would stick. Seems odd to me that I have random primers stick here and there and from different brands. I did some more digging on this site about the Accura V2 and everyone mentions they shoot Blackhorn and haven't found anyone else mention stuck primers.
This I can tell you for certain........ you can run all the solvent and cleaners in that flash hole you can obtain and if its carboned up, you're just wasting your time. Its that simple.
Now it may or may not have a thing to do with what you're experiencing but, if you've shot the rifle 50 times using BH and not CHIPPED out the carbon from the flash channel, you need to.

I don't necessarily support this site but, ... http://www.namlhunt.com/mlcleaning.html
 

Rich M

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I just got an Optima V2 and the 209 primers fall right out - I'm used to prying them out with a removal tool or pocket knife. Using Federal 209A primers as opposed to something for ML. Fired 5 rounds using T7 and could still see light looking thru flash hole. 87 yo FIL wasn't happy about how loud things were, so had to stop. It is zeroed for 100 yds.

Planning on this being a 200-250 yd ML. Just need to mess around with it some more.

My other ML is a H&R .58 cal w 209 fitting. I use a piece of SS single strand fishing wire to clear flash hole if necessary.

Last comments - bought the Optima iron sight version - it came drilled & tapped for scope mount, and the iron sights are screwed to barrel - took the back sight off and would take scope off to put peep on it if I was gonna go to CO hunting. Can unscrew front sight and screw on one of them globe sights if necessary.
 
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strousek

strousek

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This I can tell you for certain........ you can run all the solvent and cleaners in that flash hole you can obtain and if its carboned up, you're just wasting your time. Its that simple.
Now it may or may not have a thing to do with what you're experiencing but, if you've shot the rifle 50 times using BH and not CHIPPED out the carbon from the flash channel, you need to.

I don't necessarily support this site but, ... http://www.namlhunt.com/mlcleaning.html
I will for sure be chipping the breech plug when I get home. Thank you
 

ENCORE

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How'd it turn out?

CVA flame channel are 3 mm. Blackhorn plug designed by Western Powders has 1/8" flame channel.

7/64" drill fits into the 3mm channel.
 
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strousek

strousek

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How'd it turn out?

CVA flame channel are 3 mm. Blackhorn plug designed by Western Powders has 1/8" flame channel.

7/64" drill fits into the 3mm channel.
Well between two kids schoolwork help and some unexpected chores I wasn't able to get to the breech plug. I will pull it out of the safe this weekend and give it a cleaning.
 
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strousek

strousek

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How'd it turn out?

CVA flame channel are 3 mm. Blackhorn plug designed by Western Powders has 1/8" flame channel.

7/64" drill fits into the 3mm channel.
Just for sh*ts and grins I took out the breech plug and cleaned it, which it looked perfect already, with some black powder solvent and a pipe cleaner like always. I got very little black out of the plug. I then took an 1/8" drill bit and hand turned the flame channel. I was amazed at the amount of crystalized build up I was able to break free. With the rain here in CO all weekend I was not able to take it out to shoot and see if this was the leading issue with the primers sticking. I will be chipping the flash channel every time I clean the muzzleloader from now on. Thank you for the heads up on this!
 

ENCORE

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Just for sh*ts and grins I took out the breech plug and cleaned it, which it looked perfect already, with some black powder solvent and a pipe cleaner like always. I got very little black out of the plug. I then took an 1/8" drill bit and hand turned the flame channel. I was amazed at the amount of crystalized build up I was able to break free. With the rain here in CO all weekend I was not able to take it out to shoot and see if this was the leading issue with the primers sticking. I will be chipping the flash channel every time I clean the muzzleloader from now on. Thank you for the heads up on this!
Good job. Glad I was able to help. Lets hope he cures your sticking primer issue.
 

CoHiCntry

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Just for sh*ts and grins I took out the breech plug and cleaned it, which it looked perfect already, with some black powder solvent and a pipe cleaner like always. I got very little black out of the plug. I then took an 1/8" drill bit and hand turned the flame channel. I was amazed at the amount of crystalized build up I was able to break free. With the rain here in CO all weekend I was not able to take it out to shoot and see if this was the leading issue with the primers sticking. I will be chipping the flash channel every time I clean the muzzleloader from now on. Thank you for the heads up on this!

Get a pin vise like this to keep your drill bit in. Take it to the range with you & clean out your BP every few shots to see how much build up your getting. The handle makes it much easier spin the drill bit. When I was using BH209 I needed to run the bit in the BP every 3 shots or so.

6BA04273-4D97-4773-A71F-08FF50DDAEE8.png
 
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CoHiCntry

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To your original question... the only time I've dealt with a sticking 209 primer, the fix was shimming the primer pocket.
 

Don Qui Puncher

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Boston Ma
Back down on charge weight, my accura stuck every time at max weight of 84 grains I backed down till I hit 78 and it never hung up again. I thought it was the flash hole at first but it continued to happen after cleaning.
 
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