.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, chupacabra, elk, walrus and moose.

[DJL2]

Of note, back in the day, I had some 3/8" plate steel that I tested a lot of 5.56 on.

M193 would launch spalling and "make it through" (launch a plug out the back) out to about 100m
M855 would penetrate, and then through a 2x6 behind the plate. It would do this out to 150m, where I stopped testing.
Hornady TAP 5.56 T2 would perform similar to M193.

This was all from a 20" rifle.

Velocity is what burns through hard stuff, as is construction of projectile. The .45 ACP is a very slow creature, and it does not do well with hard stuff due to low velocity, low kinetic energy vs. frontal area, and soft projectile construction (typically). using some sort of hard caste bullet with a sharp shoulder may change the dynamic.

Law Enforcement - Federal Premium LE, Speer LE, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle - Load Comparison

LE Wound Ballistics. Speer and Federal Premium pioneered the use of Wound Ballistic Workshops as a service to police departments nationwide. Utilizing the FBI Ammunition Testing Protocol, firearms training officers test ammunition side-by-side to make informed decisions on the duty ammunition...

le.vistaoutdoor.com

This is between the frangible TMK and the bonded tip load in .308. Take a look at the steel, plywood, and auto glass. I’d have absolutely zero qualms using the TMK in any scenario where 12+ inches of penetration gets the job done.
I thought for sure they had the 77 TMK test results published... and they might, somewhere. What I recall was essentially the same performance with a slightly narrowed wound channel.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

And its annoying sometimes.
Educations cost money.
I have yet to prove form wrong and have tried.

I'll see if I can prove him wrong in a week by sending a 133 berger through the almighty impenetrable elk shoulder. Jokes aside I'm trying to get over my aversion to shoulders. I used to aim for them and I let other people get in my head with their nonsense. I'm actively taking my mind back to "shoot em in the center of vitals regardless of angle." No more "sneaking it in behind the shoulder games."

 

[grfox92]

Factory Hornady 73gr ELDM. Antelope 75 yards. Out-of a gas gun.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

 

[xsn10s]

Couldn’t be any worse than what it replaced. Something tells me Timney wouldn’t risk their rep on shit product in an OEM rifle. Good that Remington acknowledged their complete inability to make a safe trigger of decent quality since the 40X and did something about it. It’s sad that the solution wasn’t found in house.

Any trigger can malfunction. I just searched a RS favorite and found issues with it's trigger. If it's mechanical it can fail.

 

[DJL2]

Any trigger can malfunction. I just searched a RS favorite and found issues with it's trigger. If it's mechanical it can fail.

Remington went through two iterations of OEM trigger that were unsafe enough that they were the subject of class action lawsuits. The first resulted in a recall of over 7,500,000 units. The second of those being the X-Mark Pro... though supposedly that was just slip shod assembly and lack of QA/QC rather than a design flaw. That's well beyond "any mechanical item can fail" I'd say.

 

[xsn10s]

Remington went through two iterations of OEM trigger that were unsafe enough that they were the subject of class action lawsuits. The first resulted in a recall of over 7,500,000 units. The second of those being the X-Mark Pro... though supposedly that was just slip shod assembly and lack of QA/QC rather than a design flaw. That's well beyond "any mechanical item can fail" I'd say.

I've been through two of remington's armorer's courses and adjusted my 700's trigger. It's held fine for over twenty years. I'd say the lawsuit was bs.

 

[ElPollo]

I've been through two of remington's armorer's courses and adjusted my 700's trigger. It's held fine for over twenty years. I'd say the lawsuit was bs.

There were enough problems to warrant the recall of 7.5 million R700s, but yours hasn’t had a problem yet. Must all be bullshit. Can’t argue with that logic. Makes me really want to go buy one.

 

[xsn10s]

There were enough problems to warrant the recall of 7.5 million R700s, but yours hasn’t had a problem yet. Must all be bullshit. Can’t argue with that logic. Makes me really want to go buy one.

I've seen you tout tikkas. There are reports of the same trigger failures on tikkas as the rem 700's. Heck I've had to work on Glocks and other highly praised firearms for trigger failures. The fact is something can be misadjusted, improperly manufactured, or simply worn out. I see much of the lawsuit based on emotion because of the kid that got shot. Following the basic firearms safety rules of never point your firearms at anything you do not want to destroy this shouldn't of happened. But hey it's easier to blame the firearm.

 

[xsn10s]

The way I see it if you want to attack US firearms then go for the biggest kid on the block. Well Remington was one of the biggest kids. Now you see state gov trying to pass laws so they can blame firearms manufacturers for violent crimes. Blame the guns for people's actions, much like blaming spoons for people being fat.

 

[xsn10s]

Next we'll see tmk's being blamed for being too lethal lol.

 

[ElPollo]

Next we'll see tmk's being blamed for being too lethal lol.

More good logic. Keep it coming.

 

[fwafwow]

The way I see it if you want to attack US firearms then go for the biggest kid on the block. Well Remington was one of the biggest kids. Now you see state gov trying to pass laws so they can blame firearms manufacturers for violent crimes. Blame the guns for people's actions, much like blaming spoons for people being fat.

Yeah, this is a conspiracy of a bunch of Scandinavians and other Tikka fanboys on RS who are out to get US companies. I don't think anyone said (or has ever said) that any trigger system, or any mechanical device, is free from a risk of failure.

Sorry to the mods (and everyone else) for engaging in this troll diversion. This debate about R700 triggers has been beaten to death, and while I don't mind it being raised again - this isn't the thread for it.

 

[atmat]

Well Remington was one of the biggest kids.

Correct. They were one of the biggest. Then their triggers were discovered to have a failure in design, and their QC dropped off the face of the planet. Now they’re where they are by their own failures.

 

[xsn10s]

Correct. They were one of the biggest. Then their triggers were discovered to have a failure in design, and their QC dropped off the face of the planet. Now they’re where they are by their own failures.

I disagree. The failure was in the adjustments. Whether it wasn't adjusted properly from the factory or maladjusted by the owner. But I agree they had a QC problem especially at the end. I haven't taken the new Timney apart but I suspect the reason Remington decided to use it is because it's not adjustable.

 

[Reburn]

I disagree. The failure was in the adjustments. Whether it wasn't adjusted properly from the factory or maladjusted by the owner. But I agree they had a QC problem especially at the end. I haven't taken the new Timney apart but I suspect the reason Remington decided to use it is because it's not adjustable.

Prove it wasn't a design flaw.
There is a metric crap ton of information out there proving it is.
Your out of your depth.
Thank you for telling us your feelings.

What are you even doing in this thread? Why dont you start another thread about this and not clog up this one.

 

[xsn10s]

Prove it wasn't a design flaw.
There is a metric crap ton of information out there proving it is.
Your out of your depth.
Thank you for telling us your feelings.

What are you even doing in this thread? Why dont you start another thread about this and not clog up this one.

I'm watching just like everyone else for the TMK posts. You guys keep quoting me so the clogging up of the thread is on you lol.

 

[ElPollo]

Yeah, this is a conspiracy of a bunch of Scandinavians and other Tikka fanboys on RS who are out to get US companies. I don't think anyone said (or has ever said) that any trigger system, or any mechanical device, is free from a risk of failure.

Sorry to the mods (and everyone else) for engaging in this troll diversion. This debate about R700 triggers has been beaten to death, and while I don't mind it being raised again - this isn't the thread for it.

My apologies for engaging on this one. This thread is about people posting actual data on using the 223 on big game, but for some reason it also seems to be like flypaper for other random dogma.

 

[Dust Rider]

Antelope aren’t much of a bullet test but here’s 230 yards from a 77 TMK started at 2800fps. Buck took it behind the shoulder and ran 40 yards stopped and stood for 5 seconds or so and tipped over.
View attachment 611133
Entrance
View attachment 611134

Exit
View attachment 611135

Like the third photo where you can see your jeans through the exit hole.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Please let's keep the thread discussing the original intent.
I would expect that within the next week or two, we'll be seeing some great photos.

Randy

 

[swavescatter]

Sorry - I know it's totally buried in here but I'll bump with relevant discussion.

I'm going to reload for the first time, roughly following Forms painless method. 77gr TMKs with varget in once fired Hornady brass. BR2 primers. Tikka T3X compact with Banish 30 Gold suppressor.

Amy recommendations on starting charges for powder and seating depth?