.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[BAKPAKR]

Does anyone have reliable expansion data on the TMK for 16" barrels? Using Black Hills 77gr TMK

I've read reports of 300 yards to 350 yards, seems shallow though for the TMK.

Thanks!

I don’t have a photo of the recovered bullet but I shot a doe through the lungs with a 77 gr TMK out of a 16” 223 (Noveske, actually) at a little over 230 yards. It expanded enough for jacket/core separation and did not exit.

 

[Billogna]

Can you point me to this information?

I don't recall seeing it in this thread, or anywhere for that matter.

It's all over this thread. Form has stated several times that he and those he shoots with have logged and recorded several hundred kills. Not all of their data has been made public as far as I know. But he has personally shared an astounding number of animals with range, impact velo and field autopsy pics. That and the fact that several other members here has all added to this thread just keeps compiling the data. So... you're in the right place brotha!!

 

[mt terry d]

It's all over this thread. Form has stated several times that he and those he shoots with have logged and recorded several hundred kills. Not all of their data has been made public as far as I know. But he has personally shared an astounding number of animals with range, impact velo and field autopsy pics. That and the fact that several other members here has all added to this thread just keeps compiling the data. So... you're in the right place brotha!!

I'm sorry, apparently I didn't make myself clear.
Those several hundred kills
are not <1800fps. That's what I'm asking about.
I don't recall more than one kill here with an impact velocity <1800fps
let alone enough to make any reasonable conclusion that 1800fps is the
lower limit for reliable performance of the 77 TMK

 

[omicron1792]

@form has been pretty consistent that the bullet will upset reliably down to 1800fps

 

[BOLIO]

I'm sorry, apparently I didn't make myself clear.
Those several hundred kills
are not <1800fps. That's what I'm asking about.
I don't recall more than one kill here with an impact velocity <1800fps
let alone enough to make any reasonable conclusion that 1800fps is the
lower limit for reliable performance of the 77 TMK

Post in thread '.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.'

Jan 9, 2023

Another elk. This one at very low impact velocity. 1,440fps impact. 77gr TMK. First shot was through scapula, high lung, second shot back of ribs and broke the spine. Total distance traveled was 30’ish yards.








Still upsetting quite well-

• Formidilosus

• 
• 

This is a big critter at 1440 impact velocity

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

LOL, you are the one who posted the link to the photo as proof that bullet x would meet the requirement of @FredH of “breaking the upper leg bone at or under the ball and still give good penetration and damage after.” So, he had a valid question.

And, since you posted the link, do you know the story? What was with a femur shot? Was it just a test after the hind leg was boned out or was it a follow up shot on a moose wounded by a 22 caliber rifle?

Story may have been on the podcast or posted in another thread. Maybe @Ryan Avery can chime in since it's his picture.

 

[Formidilosus]

I’ve seen around 10 animals or so with the 77gr TMK below 1,800fps- there are several that I posted in this thread. All of them the bullets upset well and created very good, to excellent wound channels. It is very likely that the 77gr TMK is reliable well below 1,800’ish fps. However, in general bullets start struggling to upset consistently somewhere around 1,800 or so regardless of make. Being that is the case, until I see a bunch more, I would suggest 1,800fps as a safe bet.

 

[KHntr]

Story may have been on the podcast or posted in another thread. Maybe @Ryan Avery can chime in since it's his picture.

Reasonably sure that is Tyler Freel’s pic, from the moose he shot last year with an 88 ELD m ala 22 ARC gas gun.

Was the second shot (about 1.5 seconds after the first IIRC) and quartering away as the bull was still crossing and in view. Broke femur into the pieces you see after penetrating the thickest part of the ham and then carried on into the body cavity and wasn’t recovered in the lower intestines.

There’s video of the shots floating around, as well as Tyler’s breakdown on Outdoor Life of how it went down. Not to mention that he’s a member here….
@bearcreekbandit

 

[Billogna]

I'm sorry, apparently I didn't make myself clear.
Those several hundred kills
are not <1800fps. That's what I'm asking about.
I don't recall more than one kill here with an impact velocity <1800fps
let alone enough to make any reasonable conclusion that 1800fps is the
lower limit for reliable performance of the 77 TMK

Ahhh... Gotcha! I misread your earlier post. So to answer. No there are not Shloads of kills sub 1800fps. As far as I recall there has only been the single one posted. Which also does reinforce the 1800fps threshold in a round about way. So... for RELIABLE expansion, its become the standard for tipped match bullets as reported by Form. I'm sure he has access to data that would support this. I think he was just trying to save us all some time. I'm sure he has other data regarding less than emphatic kills at lower velos- which is why he recommended keeping it keeping it at 1800 or above. I always took his recommendations intended to what works without fail the majority of the time. Sub 1800 is sub optimal.

 

[WestTN2288]

Anyone know of anywhere that is loading 77TMK in the 22ARC? The 75gr ELD-Ms are shooting great out of my 16” barrel but I’d like to give the mythical TMK a try

Not seen one for sale, but I have made a few. Settled on 2.23 COL and generally have to go down 1-2gr of powder compared to 75eldm to have the same pressure and ~50 fps less MV. Shoots great though. Basically a 22ARC = 223 with a 4-6in longer barrel.

My favorite gun right now is a 12.5 22ARC shooting 77 TMK ~2700 FPS

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Reasonably sure that is Tyler Freel’s pic, from the moose he shot last year with an 88 ELD m ala 22 ARC gas gun.

Was the second shot (about 1.5 seconds after the first IIRC) and quartering away as the bull was still crossing and in view. Broke femur into the pieces you see after penetrating the thickest part of the ham and then carried on into the body cavity and wasn’t recovered in the lower intestines.

There’s video of the shots floating around, as well as Tyler’s breakdown on Outdoor Life of how it went down. Not to mention that he’s a member here….
@bearcreekbandit

That's what I thought. Went and found the Outdoor Life article on it but didn't see the same pic so I wasn't 100% sure.

 

[Thompy]

Bullet is key . I shot a big doe whitetail that centered a rib with my 22-250 . Hardly a trail to follow but found her alive and had to finish the job with my knife. That was with a hornady 50 grain varmit load which was a terrible choice for a bullet.

 

[BAKPAKR]

Reasonably sure that is Tyler Freel’s pic, from the moose he shot last year with an 88 ELD m ala 22 ARC gas gun.

Was the second shot (about 1.5 seconds after the first IIRC) and quartering away as the bull was still crossing and in view. Broke femur into the pieces you see after penetrating the thickest part of the ham and then carried on into the body cavity and wasn’t recovered in the lower intestines.

There’s video of the shots floating around, as well as Tyler’s breakdown on Outdoor Life of how it went down. Not to mention that he’s a member here….
@bearcreekbandit

Found it:

Looks like the 88 gr ELD will work.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Found it:

Looks like the 88 gr ELD will work.

Yep, there it is. Timestamp 16:25

 

[ACHILLES]

Anyone know of anywhere that is loading 77TMK in the 22ARC? The 75gr ELD-Ms are shooting great out of my 16” barrel but I’d like to give the mythical TMK a try

Copper creek does with a 77smk, call them and I’m sure they would do the TMK for you. I’m hoping AAC will in the near future.

22 ARC 77gr Sierra Matchking – Copper Creek Cartridge Co.

coppercreekcartridgeco.com

 

[KHntr]

Found it:

Looks like the 88 gr ELD will work.

Considering I’m 3 bull moose, 2 bull elk, some whitetails, muleys, and a bunch of black bears deep with the 88 and nothing but immediate results, probably a reasonable conclusion.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Score at the lgs today. First time I’ve seen these in person.

 

[Antares]

I just rezeroed and checked drops on my .223 without a suppressor for an out-of-state trip.

73 ELDM factory load; looks good to me!

 

[mt terry d]

Ahhh... Gotcha! I misread your earlier post. So to answer. No there are not Shloads of kills sub 1800fps. As far as I recall there has only been the single one posted. Which also does reinforce the 1800fps threshold in a round about way. So... for RELIABLE expansion, its become the standard for tipped match bullets as reported by Form. I'm sure he has access to data that would support this. I think he was just trying to save us all some time. I'm sure he has other data regarding less than emphatic kills at lower velos- which is why he recommended keeping it keeping it at 1800 or above. I always took his recommendations intended to what works without fail the majority of the time. Sub 1800 is sub optimal.

I d love if Form would chime in on this as my (admittedly selective) memory tells me he only recommended >1800 is because of very limited data on <1800

Not intended to you or anyone else in particular but the >1800 fps “required” for the 77TMK rings of the “30 cal minimum for elk” mantra.
This whole thread is somewhat about searching out the lower limits of reliable killing ability of our weapon systems. This little bullet is pretty impressive. I’m suspicious it might be even more impressive than we/some give it credit for
That’s the whole reason for my harping on this point

Maybe there’s been <1800 fps gel testing on this particular bullet that indicates one way or the other. ??
If so I missed it.
If not maybe someone with the ability and curiosity would give it a go.

 

[mt terry d]

Post in thread '.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.'

Jan 9, 2023

Another elk. This one at very low impact velocity. 1,440fps impact. 77gr TMK. First shot was through scapula, high lung, second shot back of ribs and broke the spine. Total distance traveled was 30’ish yards.








Still upsetting quite well-

• Formidilosus

• 
• 

This is a big critter at 1440 impact velocity

Just saw this. Excellent! Thank you.
Sample of one. That’s a start