AK Sheep BOG Comments due Oct 13

[wildwilderness]

I have several issues with Movi’s comments-

There’s currently no area that habitat is an issue at current numbers.
How do you know this? What about creating NEW habitat? It can surely help to have more and better quality habitat! It’s also something pro-active and can help. Burning the brush line will definitely add more food

All the “solutions” out there do nothing for increasing sheep populations.
— That is EXACTLY the problem with YOU and the Group Think Fish and Game has! You can’t think out of the Box!!! Of Course there are many things that can be done to increase populations. I have Seen hundreds of wild sheep successfully breed in Mexico, thousands released to the wild. I met the guy who got the LAW changed to accomplish that in Sonora! It can be done. Many Thinhorns are bred in zoos and other captive environments.


Calgary Zoo!

I see the State breeding Bison , transplanting them, etc. When was the last Dall sheep transplant??? Why Not? Is there a minimum viable population number? Maybe some areas won’t have sheep ever come back my themselves- Western Brooks? If they don’t know it do a study.

Do mineral licks help sheep Health? Increase fecundity? Survival rates? Do a study! Very affordable to supplement sheep, salt is cheap.

I once heard a stupid comment by a biologist who said they don’t need more money for studies- well obviously they don’t want to know what works, because what they have been doing DOESNT WORK!

How about a Mandatory sheep count every year of every range? Real numbers will show what works and what doesn’t. Raise the money for it through tag sales!

It takes a complete paradigm shift in the old mentality. I say fire the whole staff and put in people who want to fix the problem instead of complain about the weather!!

You can increase sheep numbers!

 

[wildwilderness]

I do agree on Harvest control. Once again a study on Age class should be done to verify importance of 8yro + rams to a population.

To implement correctly they must have accurate data on sheep populations per subunit and male:female ratios, age class

All sheep must go draw or limited registration only. (RHAK would push for NR cap) the hunt would then be for ANY ram. Some hunters would opt for younger rams, thus allowing some older rams to live!

Total ram harvest would be controlled so no deleterious effects on populations. It must be known what the appropriate ratios are for male:female and necessary age structure.

All Hunters must buy a locking tag priced high enough - this would weed out the opportunity hunters, but most importantly start providing funds to do the suggested studies, and at a minimum the cost to count all populations.

This would take care of the sub-legal problem. Adding stiff penalties for sub-legal kills would probably result in under reporting, abandoned sheep…

Waiting periods could be assessed once draw data is calculated. High demand units could go to increased wait time to allow more to hunt that unit, like TOK and DCUA should be a 1:4 since some people do draw it multiple times (not me )

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Thanks for the reply. I can definitely see your point of view. My thoughts are as follows:

The problem with the surplus comment is everyone says it in terms of breeding. Yes younger rams can do the breeding. But 12 year old rams will rut as hard as any other rams. Take breeding out of it. what about the knowledge older rams surely possess? Such examples could be places to go when the snow gets deep, kicking young rams out so they have to go to new areas. The list can go on and on. I can’t help but to compare it to humans to simplify it. The older generation knows a lot of chit. You cant take out/target one sector of age class. There will be negative affects.

I don’t agree with your comment of killing rams will help because of food. I would agree with that if populations are high but that is not the case and hasn’t been the case for over 20 years. There’s currently no area that habitat is an issue at current numbers. Yes the brush line has moved up in many areas but still plenty of alpine for them.

There are a lot of things that can be done before we have to close sheep hunting. I was just joking but coksliders get offended easy. All the “solutions” out there do nothing for increasing sheep populations. The only thing we can do is manage harvest. I would like to see harvest managed so there is an appropriate % of each age class.

Sheep hunter numbers are already down but if we can limit hunters to get the age class back it’s a start. Let’s do the following:

1) make it illegal to post sheep pics on social media. If you can’t post it will you want to do it?

2) get rid of full curl Friday. That would happen with the above but just to make sure it’s really dead let’s do it.

3). You kill a 7 year old you sit out 5 years. Sublegal 5 years

4). You kill a ram you sit out a year

More rams after the season is start. It sure as hell isn’t a bad thing.

I agree with you in that the social media aspect of hunting is shitty, terrible and dosent do hunters any good. I’ve been guilty of it before as well but it seems so many guys are going hard on the social media thing. I’ve gotten to a point where I have stopped following guys because they are arrogant, self absorbed and want that attention.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I do agree on Harvest control. Once again a study on Age class should be done to verify importance of 8yro + rams to a population.

To implement correctly they must have accurate data on sheep populations per subunit and male:female ratios, age class

All sheep must go draw or limited registration only. (RHAK would push for NR cap) the hunt would then be for ANY ram. Some hunters would opt for younger rams, thus allowing some older rams to live!

Total ram harvest would be controlled so no deleterious effects on populations. It must be known what the appropriate ratios are for male:female and necessary age structure.

All Hunters must buy a locking tag priced high enough - this would weed out the opportunity hunters, but most importantly start providing funds to do the suggested studies, and at a minimum the cost to count all populations.

This would take care of the sub-legal problem. Adding stiff penalties for sub-legal kills would probably result in under reporting, abandoned sheep…

Serious question, what actually happens from a legal standpoint if a guy shows up at a check in point (FG office) with a sub legal ram?

 

[wildwilderness]

Serious question, what actually happens from a legal standpoint if a guy shows up at a check in point (FG office) with a sub legal ram?

I don’t know for sure, only met one guy who admitted it. Didn’t tell me how much the fine was, but said he went to court and got the judge to throw out the misdemeanor charge because he was military.

Hopefully someone on here knows what the fine is currently?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I don’t know for sure, only met one guy who admitted it. Didn’t tell me how much the fine was, but said he went to court and got the judge to throw out the misdemeanor charge because he was military.

Hopefully someone on her knows what the fine is currently?

Right I know the charges often get dropped/reduced. I know a guy who got a wanton waste charge because he took a moose rack to his boat before the meat hauling was done. He got the misdemeanor charge dropped because he was a teacher. Again though, not sure what his fine was.

I guess it makes sense from the standpoint of careers that require licensure or legal clarity like military and education. You’d just pay and plead to have the charges dropped off your record.

 

[JBrown1]

Thanks for the reply. I can definitely see your point of view. My thoughts are as follows:

The problem with the surplus comment is everyone says it in terms of breeding. Yes younger rams can do the breeding. But 12 year old rams will rut as hard as any other rams. Take breeding out of it. what about the knowledge older rams surely possess? Such examples could be places to go when the snow gets deep, kicking young rams out so they have to go to new areas. The list can go on and on. I can’t help but to compare it to humans to simplify it. The older generation knows a lot of chit. You cant take out/target one sector of age class. There will be negative affects.

I don’t agree with your comment of killing rams will help because of food. I would agree with that if populations are high but that is not the case and hasn’t been the case for over 20 years. There’s currently no area that habitat is an issue at current numbers. Yes the brush line has moved up in many areas but still plenty of alpine for them.

There are a lot of things that can be done before we have to close sheep hunting. I was just joking but coksliders get offended easy. All the “solutions” out there do nothing for increasing sheep populations. The only thing we can do is manage harvest. I would like to see harvest managed so there is an appropriate % of each age class.

Sheep hunter numbers are already down but if we can limit hunters to get the age class back it’s a start. Let’s do the following:

1) make it illegal to post sheep pics on social media. If you can’t post it will you want to do it?

2) get rid of full curl Friday. That would happen with the above but just to make sure it’s really dead let’s do it.

3). You kill a 7 year old you sit out 5 years. Sublegal 5 years

4). You kill a ram you sit out a year

More rams after the season is start. It sure as hell isn’t a bad thing.

I agree with almost everything that you wrote. And I like your new set of rules.

 

[Bambistew]

I say we stop hunting for a few years and see what happens. I agree with Movi.

When we get to the winter kill we saw last year, 6-7 years from now, we will see a dramatic drop in rams killed. Between now and then we'll kill every barely legal ram we can find. We can't kill them as they get legal and expect good things to happen or hunting to improve.

You need legislative action to get predator control for sheep. We are not going to kill golden eagles, ever. They're federaly regulated and if you think killing wolves is controvercial, shoot some eagles. If you want to make a meaningful impact for predators. Require sheep hunters to kill x number of predators (wolves, wolverine and coyotes) to get a tag. NR and Res alike. No guides doing it for their clients but require guides to kill x number for each sheep they guide for as well. Exploit wildlife, earn it. Ive not seen any studies that prove predators are a limiting factor for sheep in AK. Winter weather is. Again we're not shooting eagles any time soon.

The feds control sunsitence. They loosley keep track of how many sheep are killed. The state can't do anything about it, and the feds lack the spine to enforce and track it. Subsistence is a minor take, by all accounts and only on federal lands or areas most others cant hunt anyway. Enforcement should be challenged by the state, but again good luck with that. To be fair the subsitence board is the only group actually taking action.

Study things to death and charge people a fortune? For what? To find out we don't have any sheep? Making people pay, won't reduce harvest, or make people think... it will make them even more aware of the value of shooting a sheep. If it cost me $1000 for a tag I'm coming back with a ram. 7yo or 12yo. Maybe reduce the tag fee by age institute a trophy fee on age, or limit future hunting opportunities bases on age of ram harvested.

You want to increase ram population in a meaningful way next year? Want to leave 250 on the montian? Stop NR hunting or drastically limit it. That is by far the easiest way to keep sheep on the mountain. NR kill more rams than wolves and they are 3x as effective as residents. That's always a non-starer, so good luck fighting the wealthy sheep hunter foundation. They will want a reduction for residents and stop guys from shooting more than one ram in x years. Watch.

How about we look at tax returns and base your tag cost in that? I mean if we're going to make it hurt for people make it hurt for them. $1000 to a guy that make 50k is not the same as a guy that makes 200k. It should be a sliding scale. If you own a plane, add on another $10k to that tag. Again it won't reduce harvest or make people selective. It will be the opposite. All one has to do is look at MT deer hunting. NR feel justified shooting a 2point because the tag cost them $500.

You guys really think the alaska wealthy sheep hunter foundation gives 2 chits about resident sheep hunters? Its not in their mission statement. They are just colony of the national group. They will defend NR opportunities over residents until the end of time. I won't give them another dime either group because we dont have more sheep today in virtually every place there are sheep. At best the population is the same. How is the sheep population in MT? It's 1/2 off what it was 20 years ago. Doing strong work there, but hey those action tags sell for a lot. Also what have they done in the last 5 years in AK? Some outreach to sheep farmers? Hard to do anything when they don't meet.

It would be nice to figure out why the ewes have a pregnancy rate of 50% in some areas. Is it lack of mature rams? It's one plausible reason. That kind of study takes years and years to figure out if they can.

Farming sheep in Mexico is stupid there and would be even stupider here. Only dudes with a hard on for a grandslam would defend hunting farm animals in Mexico ,(better yet farm animals on an island) and pretend they are wild sheep.

We don't transport sheep due to disease transmission potential in AK. If you think we understand all the diseases sheep have you should consider asking the wealthy sheep hunter foundation how we found the old world "sheep killer" disease is in AK, yet there is no evidence of die offs or maybe we do? Maybe ask about the false positives in the lab they use? Maybe we don't know as much as we think? Also where would we get all those surplus sheep to relocate?

Think outside of the box? Dude, you need to dig through those boxes behind the dumpster first. People have been worried about this stuff for a long time, none of your ideas are outside the box.

If I was betting, the only ones who will lose will be residents and resident opportunity. We won't see an increase in sheep numbers, and nothing will change for NR opps.

Resident Hunters with Planes (RHAK) will continue to push for plane use during the season because we need to be more effective in killing the last sheep as long as it's residents doing it.

Shut it down, let the rams get some age and experience, then open it back up. Pretty sure the only people that would really have a problem with it will be they guys who are whoring out wildlife and even most of them would be able to get on board. What cones first? The animals, the opportunity or $$$? So far the animals haven't come first.

 

[Tanner]

I say we stop hunting for a few years and see what happens. I agree with Movi.

When we get to the winter kill we saw last year, 6-7 years from now, we will see a dramatic drop in rams killed. Between now and then we'll kill every barely legal ram we can find. We can't kill them as they get legal and expect good things to happen or hunting to improve.

You need legislative action to get predator control for sheep. We are not going to kill golden eagles, ever. They're federaly regulated and if you think killing wolves is controvercial, shoot some eagles. If you want to make a meaningful impact for predators. Require sheep hunters to kill x number of predators (wolves, wolverine and coyotes) to get a tag. NR and Res alike. No guides doing it for their clients but require guides to kill x number for each sheep they guide for as well. Exploit wildlife, earn it. Ive not seen any studies that prove predators are a limiting factor for sheep in AK. Winter weather is. Again we're not shooting eagles any time soon.

The feds control sunsitence. They loosley keep track of how many sheep are killed. The state can't do anything about it, and the feds lack the spine to enforce and track it. Subsistence is a minor take, by all accounts and only on federal lands or areas most others cant hunt anyway. Enforcement should be challenged by the state, but again good luck with that. To be fair the subsitence board is the only group actually taking action.

Study things to death and charge people a fortune? For what? To find out we don't have any sheep? Making people pay, won't reduce harvest, or make people think... it will make them even more aware of the value of shooting a sheep. If it cost me $1000 for a tag I'm coming back with a ram. 7yo or 12yo. Maybe reduce the tag fee by age institute a trophy fee on age, or limit future hunting opportunities bases on age of ram harvested.

You want to increase ram population in a meaningful way next year? Want to leave 250 on the montian? Stop NR hunting or drastically limit it. That is by far the easiest way to keep sheep on the mountain. NR kill more rams than wolves and they are 3x as effective as residents. That's always a non-starer, so good luck fighting the wealthy sheep hunter foundation. They will want a reduction for residents and stop guys from shooting more than one ram in x years. Watch.

How about we look at tax returns and base your tag cost in that? I mean if we're going to make it hurt for people make it hurt for them. $1000 to a guy that make 50k is not the same as a guy that makes 200k. It should be a sliding scale. If you own a plane, add on another $10k to that tag. Again it won't reduce harvest or make people selective. It will be the opposite. All one has to do is look at MT deer hunting. NR feel justified shooting a 2point because the tag cost them $500.

You guys really think the alaska wealthy sheep hunter foundation gives 2 chits about resident sheep hunters? Its not in their mission statement. They are just colony of the national group. They will defend NR opportunities over residents until the end of time. I won't give them another dime either group because we dont have more sheep today in virtually every place there are sheep. At best the population is the same. How is the sheep population in MT? It's 1/2 off what it was 20 years ago. Doing strong work there, but hey those action tags sell for a lot. Also what have they done in the last 5 years in AK? Some outreach to sheep farmers? Hard to do anything when they don't meet.

It would be nice to figure out why the ewes have a pregnancy rate of 50% in some areas. Is it lack of mature rams? It's one plausible reason. That kind of study takes years and years to figure out if they can.

Farming sheep in Mexico is stupid there and would be even stupider here. Only dudes with a hard on for a grandslam would defend hunting farm animals in Mexico ,(better yet farm animals on an island) and pretend they are wild sheep.

We don't transport sheep due to disease transmission potential in AK. If you think we understand all the diseases sheep have you should consider asking the wealthy sheep hunter foundation how we found the old world "sheep killer" disease is in AK, yet there is no evidence of die offs or maybe we do? Maybe ask about the false positives in the lab they use? Maybe we don't know as much as we think? Also where would we get all those surplus sheep to relocate?

Think outside of the box? Dude, you need to dig through those boxes behind the dumpster first. People have been worried about this stuff for a long time, none of your ideas are outside the box.

If I was betting, the only ones who will lose will be residents and resident opportunity. We won't see an increase in sheep numbers, and nothing will change for NR opps.

Resident Hunters with Planes (RHAK) will continue to push for plane use during the season because we need to be more effective in killing the last sheep as long as it's residents doing it.

Shut it down, let the rams get some age and experience, then open it back up. Pretty sure the only people that would really have a problem with it will be they guys who are whoring out wildlife and even most of them would be able to get on board. What cones first? The animals, the opportunity or $$$? So far the animals haven't come first.

I love the idea of having to earn a sheep tag through predator control.

 

[JBrown1]

Serious question, what actually happens from a legal standpoint if a guy shows up at a check in point (FG office) with a sub legal ram?

I personally know one guy who took a sub legal(49”) moose and I have Conversed with a guy who took a sub legal sheep.

Both it’s went through the same process:
-turned themselves in to the troopers
-all meat and horns/antlers confiscated “
-court proceeding and guilty plea
-$500 fine
-conviction shows up on their permanent record.

Both of these guys made an honest mistake. Although the fine and punishment seems small, from talking to both I got the impression that they would never shoot another animal without making 100% sure that it was legal. It definitely made an impression on them.

I am a teacher and the guy who killed the sub legal moose taught with me. The conviction is still on his record and it won’t have any effect on him getting a teaching job, as he has moved to two different school districts since it happened and it hasn’t caused him problems in getting hired.

BTW, he is about as strait arrow as they come and I know that the guilty plea/conviction is something he considers a major embarrassment and a huge regret.

(And I just have to point out: lots of school teachers(not me...) here in Alaska have F&G violations and it doesn’t effect their ability to find a teaching job.)

 

[carter33]

I say we stop hunting for a few years and see what happens. I agree with Movi.

When we get to the winter kill we saw last year, 6-7 years from now, we will see a dramatic drop in rams killed. Between now and then we'll kill every barely legal ram we can find. We can't kill them as they get legal and expect good things to happen or hunting to improve.

You need legislative action to get predator control for sheep. We are not going to kill golden eagles, ever. They're federaly regulated and if you think killing wolves is controvercial, shoot some eagles. If you want to make a meaningful impact for predators. Require sheep hunters to kill x number of predators (wolves, wolverine and coyotes) to get a tag. NR and Res alike. No guides doing it for their clients but require guides to kill x number for each sheep they guide for as well. Exploit wildlife, earn it. Ive not seen any studies that prove predators are a limiting factor for sheep in AK. Winter weather is. Again we're not shooting eagles any time soon.

The feds control sunsitence. They loosley keep track of how many sheep are killed. The state can't do anything about it, and the feds lack the spine to enforce and track it. Subsistence is a minor take, by all accounts and only on federal lands or areas most others cant hunt anyway. Enforcement should be challenged by the state, but again good luck with that. To be fair the subsitence board is the only group actually taking action.

Study things to death and charge people a fortune? For what? To find out we don't have any sheep? Making people pay, won't reduce harvest, or make people think... it will make them even more aware of the value of shooting a sheep. If it cost me $1000 for a tag I'm coming back with a ram. 7yo or 12yo. Maybe reduce the tag fee by age institute a trophy fee on age, or limit future hunting opportunities bases on age of ram harvested.

You want to increase ram population in a meaningful way next year? Want to leave 250 on the montian? Stop NR hunting or drastically limit it. That is by far the easiest way to keep sheep on the mountain. NR kill more rams than wolves and they are 3x as effective as residents. That's always a non-starer, so good luck fighting the wealthy sheep hunter foundation. They will want a reduction for residents and stop guys from shooting more than one ram in x years. Watch.

How about we look at tax returns and base your tag cost in that? I mean if we're going to make it hurt for people make it hurt for them. $1000 to a guy that make 50k is not the same as a guy that makes 200k. It should be a sliding scale. If you own a plane, add on another $10k to that tag. Again it won't reduce harvest or make people selective. It will be the opposite. All one has to do is look at MT deer hunting. NR feel justified shooting a 2point because the tag cost them $500.

You guys really think the alaska wealthy sheep hunter foundation gives 2 chits about resident sheep hunters? Its not in their mission statement. They are just colony of the national group. They will defend NR opportunities over residents until the end of time. I won't give them another dime either group because we dont have more sheep today in virtually every place there are sheep. At best the population is the same. How is the sheep population in MT? It's 1/2 off what it was 20 years ago. Doing strong work there, but hey those action tags sell for a lot. Also what have they done in the last 5 years in AK? Some outreach to sheep farmers? Hard to do anything when they don't meet.

It would be nice to figure out why the ewes have a pregnancy rate of 50% in some areas. Is it lack of mature rams? It's one plausible reason. That kind of study takes years and years to figure out if they can.

Farming sheep in Mexico is stupid there and would be even stupider here. Only dudes with a hard on for a grandslam would defend hunting farm animals in Mexico ,(better yet farm animals on an island) and pretend they are wild sheep.

We don't transport sheep due to disease transmission potential in AK. If you think we understand all the diseases sheep have you should consider asking the wealthy sheep hunter foundation how we found the old world "sheep killer" disease is in AK, yet there is no evidence of die offs or maybe we do? Maybe ask about the false positives in the lab they use? Maybe we don't know as much as we think? Also where would we get all those surplus sheep to relocate?

Think outside of the box? Dude, you need to dig through those boxes behind the dumpster first. People have been worried about this stuff for a long time, none of your ideas are outside the box.

If I was betting, the only ones who will lose will be residents and resident opportunity. We won't see an increase in sheep numbers, and nothing will change for NR opps.

Resident Hunters with Planes (RHAK) will continue to push for plane use during the season because we need to be more effective in killing the last sheep as long as it's residents doing it.

Shut it down, let the rams get some age and experience, then open it back up. Pretty sure the only people that would really have a problem with it will be they guys who are whoring out wildlife and even most of them would be able to get on board. What cones first? The animals, the opportunity or $$$? So far the animals haven't come first.

I can understand the argument to shut it down for a few years even though it’s not what I want but man you sound pretty bitter. The comments on charging tag costs based on tax returns may have been a bit sarcastic but I think it’s the first iv heard someone propose tossing in socialist ideas into wildlife management.

Why shouldn’t residents be able to use planes during the season? The residents that own them sacrifice time and a lot of money to be a competent pilot, not to mention the cost of the plane, fuel and maintenance. By that logic all sheep hunting should be non motorized, get rid of off road vehicles and outfitters also can’t use vehicles or planes. Then we’ll just kill all the sheep near our limited roadways. I think the use of planes actually helps spread out the pressure.

On another note I understand your feelings on the WSF even though I am a member. In all organizations money speaks and unfortunately most of their money comes from outside Alaska and I do believe they’ll fight a lot harder for the NR hunters than those living in AK. I don’t have time to analyze all the moves of the organization but based on what I know I do believe they are a net benefit to sheep though.

 

[Bambistew]

I can understand the argument to shut it down for a few years even though it’s not what I want but man you sound pretty bitter. The comments on charging tag costs based on tax returns may have been a bit sarcastic but I think it’s the first iv heard someone propose tossing in socialist ideas into wildlife management.

Why shouldn’t residents be able to use planes during the season? The residents that own them sacrifice time and a lot of money to be a competent pilot, not to mention the cost of the plane, fuel and maintenance. By that logic all sheep hunting should be non motorized, get rid of off road vehicles and outfitters also can’t use vehicles or planes. Then we’ll just kill all the sheep near our limited roadways. I think the use of planes actually helps spread out the pressure.

On another note I understand your feelings on the WSF even though I am a member. In all organizations money speaks and unfortunately most of their money comes from outside Alaska and I do believe they’ll fight a lot harder for the NR hunters than those living in AK. I don’t have time to analyze all the moves of the organization but based on what I know I do believe they are a net benefit to sheep though.

The cost of tags was 100% sarcasm. People think that charging more for a tag will somehow help. It won't do anything.

What has Alaska WSF done in the last 5 years that helped resident hunters? 3 things? Should be easy.

Don't agree with the plane analogy. I don't care if you own one or not. You don't deserve welfare because you want to spend your money on a plane. The entitlement is funny. I don't care if you use it for access but, it's pretty disingenuous to say that they don't help with the harvest of animals, especially sheep. That's what Resident Hunters With Planes wants to do. They can't just accept the challenge of not using one because they are owed that luxury and its their god-given right because they own a plane. Why can't I use a drone? Whats the difference? I'll tell you a drone has 1/00th the range, it can't haul my fat ass and a buddy and drop us near the sheep we spot, and haul us out with our sheep. RHAKwP don't care about anything but what they can kill. Laughable to think otherwise. Name 3 projects they've done that benefited wildlife in the last 5 years.

Yep I am bitter, because it's the same song and dance for the last 15 years or more. Being a "sheep" doesn't get you anywhere either. Sheep hunting gets worse every year and no one want to compromise on anything. When we had the sheep management meetings. The outfitters/guides in the group wouldn't even admit there was a problem with sheep management or allocation. Yet they were the first ones to kick next of kin in the nuts because they are competition. Again another group that thinks they are owed animals.

Shut er down!

 

[JBrown1]

The cost of tags was 100% sarcasm. People think that charging more for a tag will somehow help. It won't do anything.

Yep I am bitter, because it's the same song and dance for the last 15 years or more.
..................

Shut er down!

I understand your frustration, but let's be realistic, charging "more" for resident sheep tags will do something. Case(s) in point: we have two threads that are active on this forum that are about guys killing unexpected rams, one on a moose hunt, and one on a caribou hunt.

If a $300 sheep locking tag was required, there is good chance that those two rams would not have been harvested.

And people also like to say that limiting hunters to 1 sheep every 4 years, or ditching the 2nd degree of kindred, "won't do anything". I disagree. Everything that we do will have some effect.

But the biologists clearly believe that these factors aren't to blame for the fall in sheep numbers, so they refuse to exclude hunters with no scientific basis to do so.

It seems pretty clear that weather and predators are the two biggest factors in the decline of sheep populations(does anyone disagree?. Managing hunter numbers does nothing to address these two problems.

 

[carter33]

The cost of tags was 100% sarcasm. People think that charging more for a tag will somehow help. It won't do anything.

What has Alaska WSF done in the last 5 years that helped resident hunters? 3 things? Should be easy.

Don't agree with the plane analogy. I don't care if you own one or not. You don't deserve welfare because you want to spend your money on a plane. The entitlement is funny. I don't care if you use it for access but, it's pretty disingenuous to say that they don't help with the harvest of animals, especially sheep. That's what Resident Hunters With Planes wants to do. They can't just accept the challenge of not using one because they are owed that luxury and its their god-given right because they own a plane. Why can't I use a drone? Whats the difference? I'll tell you a drone has 1/00th the range, it can't haul my fat ass and a buddy and drop us near the sheep we spot, and haul us out with our sheep. RHAKwP don't care about anything but what they can kill. Laughable to think otherwise. Name 3 projects they've done that benefited wildlife in the last 5 years.

Yep I am bitter, because it's the same song and dance for the last 15 years or more. Being a "sheep" doesn't get you anywhere either. Sheep hunting gets worse every year and no one want to compromise on anything. When we had the sheep management meetings. The outfitters/guides in the group wouldn't even admit there was a problem with sheep management or allocation. Yet they were the first ones to kick next of kin in the nuts because they are competition. Again another group that thinks they are owed animals.

Shut er down!

I think a plane definitely helps with harvest, I don’t own one but know several that do. I haven’t flown with any of them yet for hunting. I have flown out for hunts but they have all been by a service for hire.

Legally the plane should only be used for access after the season opens, it’s illegal to scout by plane during season. I’m sure some do but I don’t believe in punishing the majority based on the actions of a few.

Everyone looks for an edge when it comes to hunting, I at least respect the pilots for dedicating time to learning a skill to gain an edge. Drones are too easily available, anyone can buy one and there is no skin in the game in flying one. I do get the comparison but to me it doesn’t pass the common sense test. Also it is more like electronic communication or the use of radios which has been banned for quite a while.

I’m sure I could google the question to what the WSF has done for resident Alaskan hunters but that would be disingenuous so I’ll be honest and admit I can’t name three things. I do recall them doing research into the pneumonia like disease and trying to prevent that from becoming a problem in the state.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

The way I understand it is subsistence hunts in Alaska will always trump “non subsistence” or sport hunts.

Exactly.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

Nearly all dall sheep hunting removes only surplus rams. So how would closing down all dall sheep hunting help sheep populations?

Precisely.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

I definitely support the idea of a locking tag for residents and non residents for sheep. I'd go even further and suggest a fee for resident sheep tags as well. I know that will probably never happen, but given the enormous investment most residents have to go hunt sheep what would $20 or $30 dollars mean....

That's statutory (legislative) not regulatory (board action). Talk to your state representatives for your district.

 

[wildwilderness]

I’m hearing same old spiel, can’t help sheep, the weather is the only limiter blah blah blah.

Elect new officials, appoint new supervisors, sue the Federal Gov. All this takes money. Raise money voluntarily through tag fees. No one is forcing any to hunt sheep, but all need to realize the cost it will take to improve numbers.

All things I have suggested to increase sheep have been done before in other areas. Sure some areas have setbacks, but any increase is good for everyone!

Imagine a scenario where there are Thousands more rams every year? Every resident and their brother could hunt sheep, walk-in or fly in and still see sheep, all the guides would be 100% success, all the sheep populations thriving? That is what I’m talking about without this fighting over a limited resource!

 

[wildwilderness]

Now imagine this catastrophe- say all the sheep die-off in the Alaska range. A couple more brutal winters, habitat degradation, eagles, wolves whatever.

It would take decades, maybe a century for sheep to repopulate to huntable numbers…

Why not transplant sheep to jumpstart a viable population? They just did it with woods Bison! Bighorns are moved all the time

Where to transplant from? Healthy populations but that’s a stretch right now in AK. Where do bison come from? Often private herds.

How about taking sheep from Alaska zoo? Why not create a breeding program to help boost down populations? Sheep not wild? Sure they will be- most are released at a few years of age- old enough to survive early predation, and young enough to grow wild. But that’s not the Point! The point is to put more sheep on the Mountain!

A “captive” ewe will have multiple “wild” kids. A “captive” ram will breed many “wild” offspring.

It takes a complete paradigm shift! Let’s get rid of the scarcity mindset that infects many in Sheep, hunting, and money.

There are plenty of opportunities if that’s what everyone demands. Best to work together to get more sheep on the mountain

 

[wildwilderness]

Yes it will take years and years to get it all going, to weed out the naysayers, to work through courts, and build up herds. Something has to change, and there is one thing we agree on is we can’t change the weather.

It’s a long game that has to be won. Do it for the next generation