Average Grouping / Experience Level

[HonkeyMcGee88]

Thanks guys a lot of good info.

Like one person mentioned getting worse before getting better. I picked up a thumb release a couple weeks ago and ran it based off the recommendation of the guys at my local shop. Where the thumb barrel was just wasn't working for me so yesterday I did a little adjusting and instantly noticed better grouping ar every distance.

I also like the idea of shooting just 1 arrow sometimes. Some days I will just shoot one at 20, 30, 40, etc rather than groups ar each distance.



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[big44a4]

Other stuff to keep in mind a longer stabilizer isn’t always more accurate. Have to try configurations until you find what works. Chances are if you hunt with quiver or a heavy site like Hogg father might want to throw a side bar or offset stabilizer setup. Don’t want to be fighting your bubble. It should settle naturally.

Hunting I shoot a 15” stasis split right at bend so not much is out front with 1oz and I have 7 or 8oz on the back. Had to play with angle and weight to see what’s best.

Another misconception is sight farther out is more accurate. I shoot mine in close or all the way out just as accurate. Usually opt to have close as I can with sight ring matching peep housing as it shows less pin float (which helps mentally). Also gets me most clearance for shooting the farthest.



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[HonkeyMcGee88]

). Also gets me most clearance for shooting the farthest.



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Doesn't the bar farther out equal less pin gap, which in turn is more room?

I do have my bar out far right now and have been meaning to try it at a couple different settings.

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[big44a4]

Doesn't the bar farther out equal less pin gap, which in turn is more room?

I do have my bar out far right now and have been meaning to try it at a couple different settings.

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Sight on a dovetail farther out increases pin gap. Means less room on a slider sight before your fletchings will contact the housing. Also I have double pin housing so less room than a multi horizontal pin as my last pin is not close to bubble as you can with a horizontal pin.


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[HonkeyMcGee88]

Sight on a dovetail farther out increases pin gap. Means less room on a slider sight before your fletchings will contact the housing. Also I have double pin housing so less room than a multi horizontal pin as my last pin is not close to bubble as you can with a horizontal pin.


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Hmmm, I have been thinking backwards....oops.

How big of a difference are we talking though? Going from let's say bar fully extended to half way in.
Cutting gap in half, by a 3rd? Obviously speed is a factor but roughly

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[RosinBag]

Moving your sight in and out is another way of torque tuning as well. It has the same affect as moving your rest in or out. So have that in mind if you do so and all of a sudden you have left and right issues.

The actual clearance of your canes doesn’t change, but because the pin gaps change is the reason you get more or less yardage out of your slider. I have found about every half inch gives about 3-5 yards more or less depending on in or out with average speed bows.

 

[blb078]

1" per 10 yds seems to be the usual number. Personally, I do not shoot groups. One, I don't find it useful; two, less risk of arrow damage. I usually shoot 3 arrows at a time and pick a different spot on the target for each arrow. If I was a target/3D archer then maybe I would do things differently. I only hunt, so to me I get one arrow to seal the deal. Works for me anyway.

This is somewhat my approach too. I shoot for vitals, I don't care if my groups are 7" or 2" at 40 yards as long as it goes where I"m aiming and if it's in the kill zone I'm happy. I shoot fairly often as I can practice out 100 yards in my back yard due to being on a few acres. But there's to much stuff that can happen in the field that you just can't replicate in practice so I don't beat myself up over a large group as long as it's in what would be the kill zone.

I know the argument for practicing to get a tight group and I do agree with it to a certain extent but I worry about putting the arrow in the pump station when it counts not when it doesn't .

 

[big44a4]

Hmmm, I have been thinking backwards....oops.

How big of a difference are we talking though? Going from let's say bar fully extended to half way in.
Cutting gap in half, by a 3rd? Obviously speed is a factor but roughly

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See rosin post and sorry to take this thread down another route on accident.

I don’t know a #. I just know farther out get less yardage out of my tape before vane contact. Closer in I get more. I shoot double pin so my pins are fixed on a single post. Right now I can get 150 yards on tape with offseason arrow setup, but hunting setup I max out around 100-110. There are other factors in play such as arrow speed and peep height as well for max distance but that’s another topic. When I first started 50 yards was fun as it was a challenge.


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[HonkeyMcGee88]

No problem at all. The reason I have had mine out farther was the idea I was gonna get more yardage. Not sure why i was thinking backwards. I'm definitely going to mess with this some.

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[*zap*]

1" per 10 yards on a flat range should be the 'goal'.

% of arrows within that ring should gradually increase over time is your focusing on basics/form.

 

[TravisIN]

I shoot a Hogg father over a tommy Hogg for the dovetail. Sliding a dovetail in and out will significantly change your gap in my experience. But the reason I like a dovetail is because I can slide it in or out to make sure my peep and sight housing match up perfectly.


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[Gumbo]

Sometimes I'm on (MOA or even slightly sub-MOA) and sometimes I really suck. I have pins to 70, which was my standard practice distance, but now I shoot 30 more because it is all I can squeeze out of my backyard. I also tend to shoot too much...hours on end, even point blank in my basement. I seem to have issues with consistent form. And I tinker with my grip, draw length, and tune way too much as well, so much that I have a tendency to never give anything a fair chance (which probably leads to a lack of consistent form). Thankfully I seem to get everything in sync before hunting season. Right now I'm frustrated as hell with my new Helix Ultra. I've never shot a Hoyt well (except for my ProVantage Fastflite I had when I was 17) so I have no idea why I keep going back for more. This time I'm sticking it out for a few months or else I'm going back to my Reign 7 for hunting season. I really want to try a Mathews Traverse but am scared of not having at least one yoke.

Whew..glad to get that off my chest.

 

[5MilesBack]

There's so much that goes into getting that consistent great accuracy......and I'm not really sure where "experience level" lies in that equation. When I started archery it was solely for hunting purposes, I still don't shoot indoors at all. And as competitive as I am, I'm still not drawn much even to the outdoor shooting tourneys. I shoot a bit of unknown 3D, but as for just shooting accuracy that's more centered around range estimation than pure shooting ability.

But as for experience level, my 2007 Bowtech Commander absolutely stacked arrows at every distance even right after I started archery. I've never experienced that lack of pin float on any other bow, and I've never even gotten that bow back to that level ever since. But when the pins just sit there still as can be dead on the bullseye......it's pretty easy to shoot extremely well. So that has more to do with the type of equipment and the bow setup than experience.

Also being able to see very well makes for much better accuracy. When I started I had had Lasik and had 20/20 vision. But after a couple years and a torn and detached retina, I was back to wearing contacts. Well, putting a convex lens on a now flat cornea isn't the best recipe for consistent vision. So even though I have a lot more experience now, I don't shoot as well now as I did even a few weeks after I started archery........just because of the vision.

So there's a lot more that goes into the equation than just experience level, and some guys are just naturally good shooters. There's a big difference between picking up a bow and being able to hit a 3" bullseye consistently at multiple distances, and being committed and driven enough to hitting dime-sized spots every single time in a tourney.

 

[X-file]

I’ve been shooting for about 10 years. I use a Stan PerfeX thumb release. I switched to a hand held because I could feel more relaxed at full draw. But everyone will be different. I used to shoot 4-5 times a week minimum 30 arrows it life does take from that at times. When shooting regularly the groups were very tight. Now I’ll strive for as others have said,1” per 10 yds after 30. I would also recommend practicing at all distances. We used to practice at 80-100yards on a regular basis. I found that I was doing that so much that I wouldn’t concentrate on my sight picture as much at shorter distances.

It’s a great sport enjoy it as much as you can


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[OR Archer]

Been around archery for 20+ years and working in archery for the last 10+. I see people of all skill levels. Length of time shooting has very little to do with how well someone shoots.
If you’re not seeing the progress you want seek out a coach. But research them first!! I’ve met a few so called coaches that had no business teaching anyone anything.

 

[Block]

Iv been archery hunting for 2 years.. I practice mostly 50-80 yards these days about 3x a week 15-30 arrows a day...lately Ive been trying to go out and do (5) sets of (3) arrows so 15 arrows every day...all at the same distance... I like the spot hog wise guy release. I notice my groups are usually tighter if I put a bright green dot on the target. This was my BEST day of the week a couple days ago at 60.

 

[X-file]

Another often overlooked thing in practice for hunting is the hold and letdown. I also like to work on how long I can hold the bow and let it down or how long I can hold and still make an accurate shot.


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[jmez]

I can shoot MOA groups, I don't often shoot them. Been shooting a bow for 30+ years.

A lot of variability in groups. How do you measure them? From what you are aiming at to the farthest arrow? The spread of all the arrows with no relationship to the spot? What good does it do to stack arrows on top of each other if they are all 4 inches from where you were aiming. Accuracy vs precision. You need both.

How many arrows constitute a group? If you are a hunter then it is one. 3 arrow, 5 arrows, 8 arrows? The more you shoot in a "group" the bigger the group will likely become.

Even at 20 yards it is hard to maintain consistent MOA groups. The 5 ring on a target face measures 1.58 inches in diameter. Very few people, including professionals, shoot 300 rounds every time. If you aren't cleaning target faces every round, then IMO, you don't shoot sub MOA groups at 20 yards. You have to count the fliers.

You should strive to shoot the smallest groups possible, you shouldn't get discouraged because you don't shoot at a professional level.

At 60 yards, when I'm practicing, I can keep 8 arrows in an 8 inch circle at 60 yards. I'll have days when I've got all of them in a 4 inch circle, that isn't the norm. I'd consider 8 inches the norm for me. A couple inches over MOA is what I shoot.

As hunting season gets closer I quit shooting at defined spots all together. As was mentioned above, groups are better when shooting at a defined dot. I'm a hunter not a target archer, animals don't have dots on their side. It helps me for hunting to pick a spot to shoot rather than having the spot predefined.

 

[87TT]

I agree. I painted my Rinehart 18-1 tan. Early in the year(right after hunting season.) I put dot stickers on it. Later I paint a shadow line like a leg shadow and aim behind it from different angles. Or use a 3d target.

 

[5MilesBack]

What good does it do to stack arrows on top of each other if they are all 4 inches from where you were aiming.

Well, having your sight and bow setup correctly first, makes a big difference.