Big crazy in little California! The Colorado PAUSE act ballot initiative

[Okhotnik]

No sir, I think it's pretty obvious I don't care what they think.
I've never been "triggered" by anything someone else said, that just shows mental immaturity IMO.
But I do feel sorry for them sometimes. I'd hate to go through life like that.

You just triggered him. Thats why he responded

 

[BuzzH]

No sir, I think it's pretty obvious I don't care what they think.
I've never been "triggered" by anything someone else said, that just shows mental immaturity IMO.
But I do feel sorry for them sometimes. I'd hate to go through life like that.

Why bother to reply then?

Why go on a rant about things not even part of the discussion?

 

[BuzzH]

Aren't you the same guy who worked for the multi billionaire left wing Montana rancher wanna be Ted Turner who donated millions of dollars to ban firearms and shut off access to public land to hunt and fish? I used to fly fish the ruby river until Ted shut it down. This is too funny coming from you

You can still fly fish the Ruby, including right through the Snowcrest that Turner owns. Its even better fishing now since TEI owns it, I did a lot of riparian wetland work there specifically to improve the fisheries and water quality. You can also now enjoy a bigger piece of the Robb/Ledford WMA thanks to a 2-1 land exchange that the State of Montana capitalized on. Really improved the access to the area as well. If I were the owner of that Ranch there would have been NO way I would have lost 2 sections to the 1 gained on the D...

I've been over this with you before....Turner allowed access to his ranches. I saw a lot of local kids shoot some very nice 4x4 whitetails on the Snowcrest when I worked there. There was also a lot of locals for a lot of years that filled their freezers hunting cow elk on the D for years (until hunters screwed that up).

You know nothing about what goes on TEI properties...just like to whine and guess.

 

[Okhotnik]

You can still fly fish the Ruby, including right through the Snowcrest that Turner owns. Its even better fishing now since TEI owns it, I did a lot of riparian wetland work there specifically to improve the fisheries and water quality. You can also now enjoy a bigger piece of the Robb/Ledford WMA thanks to a 2-1 land exchange that the State of Montana capitalized on. Really improved the access to the area as well. If I were the owner of that Ranch there would have been NO way I would have lost 2 sections to the 1 gained on the D...

I've been over this with you before....Turner allowed access to his ranches. I saw a lot of local kids shoot some very nice 4x4 whitetails on the Snowcrest when I worked there. There was also a lot of locals for a lot of years that filled their freezers hunting cow elk on the D for years (until hunters screwed that up).

You know nothing about what goes on TEI properties...just like to whine and guess.

Good Job BHA again on not protecting sportsmen rights again, this time in New Mexico. Buzz how much money is in BHA's budget and what do they do with the money other than pay their directors?

Glad I quit that scam.

 

[Okhotnik]

You can still fly fish the Ruby, including right through the Snowcrest that Turner owns. Its even better fishing now since TEI owns it, I did a lot of riparian wetland work there specifically to improve the fisheries and water quality. You can also now enjoy a bigger piece of the Robb/Ledford WMA thanks to a 2-1 land exchange that the State of Montana capitalized on. Really improved the access to the area as well. If I were the owner of that Ranch there would have been NO way I would have lost 2 sections to the 1 gained on the D...

I've been over this with you before....Turner allowed access to his ranches. I saw a lot of local kids shoot some very nice 4x4 whitetails on the Snowcrest when I worked there. There was also a lot of locals for a lot of years that filled their freezers hunting cow elk on the D for years (until hunters screwed that up).

You know nothing about what goes on TEI properties...just like to whine and guess.

Banning hunting now in Africa. Good job buzz

Joe Biden Voices Support for Banning the Import of Hunting Trophies - Safari Club

Joe Biden Voices Support for Banning the Import of Hunting Trophies This past weekend, former Vice President Joe Biden hosted a virtual town hall in

safariclub.org

 

[cacklercrazy]

So a chicken will have a right to life, but a baby human can be chopped apart inside its mom legally. Humans can artifically inseminate, but animals can't. People are bat chit crazy.

Ofcourse because liberal politicians are stake holders in planned parenthood and they sell baby parts under the table for a profit. Hell our Vice President gain from it years ago.

 

[452b264]

This is what happens when you use LSD and reproduce.

 

[BuzzH]

Banning hunting now in Africa. Good job buzz

Joe Biden Voices Support for Banning the Import of Hunting Trophies - Safari Club

Joe Biden Voices Support for Banning the Import of Hunting Trophies This past weekend, former Vice President Joe Biden hosted a virtual town hall in

safariclub.org

Looks like you better get off the couch and do something about it...time to quite expecting others to do your work for you.

 

[Okhotnik]

Kind of sounds like they triggered you into being pretty miserable worrying about what they think...

Looks like you better get off the couch and do something about it...time to quite expecting others to do your work for you.

I am because you and BHA are concentrating your efforts on banning firearms instead of working with ranchers and supporting sportsmen. . Gonna make make another gun ban video your friend and BHA spokesman Charles Post? Didn't Sitka end up schitcanning him for his anti gun crusade? BHA members Post and Blake from Thoms shoes owner did a good job shutting the grizzly season too.

You must be proud.

Go run to Randy now

lol

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Kind of sounds like they triggered you into being pretty miserable worrying about what they think...

It's not what they think that triggers us rational people
The problem is that leftists aren't content with keeping their ideology to themselves, they try to force their lunacy on everyone by passing left wing unconstitutional mandates.
And they call us deplorable fascists

I heard the mention of BHA, those idiots are just another lib tard "conservation" group that hates land management.
I walked away when they started talking about stopping the "overharvest" of timber in Idaho on federal land

 

[BuzzH]

I am because you and BHA are concentrating your efforts on banning firearms instead of working with ranchers and supporting sportsmen. . Gonna make make another gun ban video your friend and BHA spokesman Charles Post? Didn't Sitka end up schitcanning him for his anti gun crusade? BHA members Post and Blake from Thoms shoes owner did a good job shutting the grizzly season too.

You must be proud.

Go run to Randy now

lol

I'm going to give you a pass on this post, as it's incoherent and I suspect Sunday drinking was involved...

I would suggest you contact Charles Post and Thoms shoes owner with your problems.

 

[Broomd]

Liberals are crazy, it's a waste of time and energy trying to reason with someone who is mentally 'broken'...these same imbeciles think that men can have babies and that boys who think they are girls can use female bathrooms and compete in their sports. In truth, it's all a ply to destroy our traditional way of life and somehow paint normal folks as racist, bigots, homphobes and sexists.

Libs are all of those things, those are the prisms through which they view everything in life. Gee, irony much?
Same goes for this CO legislation. Notice how some won't address these actual issues but rather attack us?

I'm going to start ignoring their stupidity. As was said, 'stupid' can't be fixed, it's permanent.

 

[Billinsd]

Many extreme Liberals are anti Christian and religion. They replace a believe in God for the religion of liberalism. These are the fanatics.

 

[BuzzH]

Many extreme religious folk are pretty damn fanatical as well...enough so that I can see why some are not real keen on religion.

Why we focus on the extremes of any conversation is a mystery to me, however. The moderate middle is no longer represented.

 

[CO Elk Hunter]

Amazing.....and to think that someone actually put effort to get it to this point is mind-blowing!

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Liberals are crazy, it's a waste of time and energy trying to reason with someone who is mentally 'broken'...these same imbeciles think that men can have babies and that boys who think they are girls can use female bathrooms and compete in their sports. In truth, it's all a ply to destroy our traditional way of life and somehow paint normal folks as racist, bigots, homphobes and sexists.

Libs are all of those things, those are the prisms through which they view everything in life. Gee, irony much?
Same goes for this CO legislation. Notice how some won't address these actual issues but rather attack us?

I'm going to start ignoring their stupidity. As was said, 'stupid' can't be fixed, it's permanent.

You sir I could have a beer with

 

[Crowmangler]

Here is another prime example of how liberals want to make everyone else as miserable as they are...

 

[Camoflash]

Awesome thanks for posting

 

[Nanno]

Love the title! I joined this forum because I saw a conversation about the PAUSE Act and as a native Coloradan and small "hobby" farmer it definitely concerns me.

One thing I find heartening in this community is the desire by hunters to come together with ranchers and famers on this issue. I'm not a hunter myself, but most of the folks I know are hunters and I grew up eating deer, elk, ducks, and geese that my dad shot every fall. I started raising packgoats a few years back and legislation like this could not only hurt me directly, but could hurt hunters indirectly since most of the packgoats I raise are sold to hunters.

One thing that concerns me in this thread is the attitude espoused by MtGomer who says:

They have made it a point to become our enemies by trying to privatize elk hunting across the west and lying about and trying to dismiss science that shows that their domestic sheep are incompatible with bighorns.

I don't know anything about privatizing elk hunting, but I don't believe domestic sheep grazing is totally incompatible with bighorns, nor that sheep producers have been 100% at fault in bighorn disease issues. I'll explain more in a minute.

Organizations like the stock growers and wool growers are on the front lines of trying to turn our country into Europe as far as hunting goes, but I respect your decision to white knight for them if that’s what you choose.
Beautiful Ram in your photo. How someone can have that experience and then be so triggered by someone not cucking for groups that nearly exterminated bighorns, and groups that throw millions of dollars into propaganda so they can keep diseasing bighorns, is lost on me. These groups pay lobbyists to have a year round presence in state capitals and DC, so they can continue doing things like running domestics in the San Juans.

I don't know of anyone in the stock or woolgrowing business who wants to end hunting. These "groups" did not exterminate bighorns. Bighorns were nearly wiped out around the turn of the 20th century by overhunting and yes, disease from livestock, but this was long before the days of organized agricultural groups. The devastation was caused by carelessness and ignorance. Unregulated hunting and grazing wreaked havoc on wildlife and ecosystems all over the west and was a major reason why the US Forest Service was created. Since that time, there has been a concerted effort by the government to balance wildlife and ecosystem needs with historic economic activities which are vital to those who live out west and vital to domestic production. Most of the wool we use in the U.S. is imported, which I think is a real shame.

I grew up in the San Juans (Lake City) and sheep grazing has gone on uninterrupted there for over 100 years. Nevertheless, the area never experienced a bighorn sheep die-off. Domestic and wild sheep co-existed peacefully for a century until the Wild Sheep Foundation and government agencies got involved in the 1990's and created conflict. The WSF and government recently saw fit to start collaring, trapping, and tracking bighorns in the San Juans that until that time had never had a problem. Testing showed that these bighorns were carrying domestic sheep pathogens (M.ovi among others) without harm. They'd probably been carrying these bacteria with them for 100 years and living with it quite happily, which is in fact a best case scenario. Now that the government is harassing the bighorns, I won't be shocked if they experience a devastating pneumonia outbreak in the next few years. It will of course be blamed on domestic sheep.

I'm convinced that there is more to bighorn die-offs than the mere presence of sheep pathogens. They are certainly a factor, but not the only factor. I may not be a hunter, but I am passionate about the importance of preserving bighorn sheep. I joined the Colorado Wild Sheep Working Group in 2019 because I was observing patterns in disease outbreaks that no one was talking about. For example, in 2017 there were two pneumonia outbreaks in bighorn sheep herds that had previously tested healthy and for which there was no known (or really even possible) contact with domestic livestock. One was in Zion NP and the other was Antelope Island. The Antelope Island disease outbreak completely wiped out an entire herd that had been living on the island for decades without any sign of disease. The Zion outbreak was much milder and the herd recovered. However, the common denominator was that both of these herds with no outside contact had recently been used to populate other herds. They were large, robust herds with no traceable diseases so they seemed ideal to be used for transplants. Yet only a short time after healthy ewes were removed, both herds came down with pneumonia.

This is consistent with what I know as a livestock breeder myself. Stressed animals become sick, and the family Caprinae is particularly susceptible to respiratory infection. What I believe caused the severe stress was not so much the chasing, darting, netting, and capturing (although that is extremely stressful and is usually done at a time when ewes are pregnant, which is certain to cause problems with lamb recruitment down the line), but I believe removing females from a herd can severely affect an entire herd's social structure. Bighorn herds are organized in matriarchies, and if you remove too many of the key females, it could throw the entire herd into turmoil resulting in stress-induced pneumonia. If the disease takes out even more key females, you've got a recipe for disaster. Even if many adults recover, lamb recruitment will stay low for years because of a disorganized herd social structure. I could go on and on about this particular topic, but it's something that bighorn sheep managers haven't been talking about. Honestly, I don't think they want to talk about it because it might force them to change how they conduct relocation efforts. It's much easier to blame a single cause and castigate livestock producers than to look at the issue holistically.

I apologize for this very long-winded post, but I want to emphasize that while domestic sheep pathogens are certainly a topic of great concern for bighorns and separation/mitigation efforts need to be in place, it is only one piece of a much larger puzzle and I am convinced that even if every single domestic sheep west of the Mississippi were removed, we would still see devastating pneumonia outbreaks due to the government's constant meddling with bighorn herds.

 

[Aginor]

Love the title! I joined this forum because I saw a conversation about the PAUSE Act and as a native Coloradan and small "hobby" farmer it definitely concerns me.

One thing I find heartening in this community is the desire by hunters to come together with ranchers and famers on this issue. I'm not a hunter myself, but most of the folks I know are hunters and I grew up eating deer, elk, ducks, and geese that my dad shot every fall. I started raising packgoats a few years back and legislation like this could not only hurt me directly, but could hurt hunters indirectly since most of the packgoats I raise are sold to hunters.

One thing that concerns me in this thread is the attitude espoused by MtGomer who says:



I don't know anything about privatizing elk hunting, but I don't believe domestic sheep grazing is totally incompatible with bighorns, nor that sheep producers have been 100% at fault in bighorn disease issues. I'll explain more in a minute.



I don't know of anyone in the stock or woolgrowing business who wants to end hunting. These "groups" did not exterminate bighorns. Bighorns were nearly wiped out around the turn of the 20th century by overhunting and yes, disease from livestock, but this was long before the days of organized agricultural groups. The devastation was caused by carelessness and ignorance. Unregulated grazing wreaked havoc on wildlife and ecosystems all over the west and was a major reason why the US Forest Service was created. Since that time, there has been a concerted effort by the government to balance wildlife and ecosystem needs with historic economic activities which are vital to those who live out west and vital to domestic production. Most of the wool we use in the U.S. is imported, which I think is a real shame.

I grew up in the San Juans (Lake City) and sheep grazing has gone on uninterrupted there for over 100 years. Nevertheless, the area never experienced a bighorn sheep die-off. Domestic and wild sheep co-existed peacefully for a century until the Wild Sheep Foundation and government agencies got involved in the 1990's and created conflict. The WSF and government recently saw fit to start collaring, trapping, and tracking bighorns in the San Juans that until that time had never had a problem. Testing showed that these bighorns were carrying domestic sheep pathogens (M.ovi among others) without harm. They'd probably been carrying these bacteria with them for 100 years and living with it quite happily, which is in fact a best case scenario. Now that the government is harassing the bighorns, I won't be shocked if they experience a devastating pneumonia outbreak in the next few years. It will of course be blamed on domestic sheep.

I'm convinced that there is more to bighorn die-offs than the mere presence of sheep pathogens. They are certainly a factor, but not the only factor. I may not be a hunter, but I am passionate about the importance of preserving bighorn sheep. I joined the Colorado Wild Sheep Working Group in 2019 because I was observing patterns in disease outbreaks that no one was talking about. For example, in 2017 there were two pneumonia outbreaks in bighorn sheep herds that had previously tested healthy and for which there was no known (or really even possible) contact with domestic livestock. One was in Zion NP and the other was Antelope Island. The Antelope Island disease outbreak completely wiped out an entire herd that had been living on the island for decades without any sign of disease. The Zion outbreak was much milder and the herd recovered. However, the common denominator was that both of these herds with no outside contact had recently been used to populate other herds. They were large, robust herds with no traceable diseases so they seemed ideal to be used for transplants. Yet only a short time after healthy ewes were removed, both herds came down with pneumonia.

This is consistent with what I know as a livestock breeder myself. Stressed animals become sick, and the family Caprinae is particularly susceptible to respiratory infection. What I believe caused the severe stress was not so much the chasing, darting, netting, and capturing (although that is extremely stressful and is usually done at a time when ewes are pregnant, which is certain to cause problems with lamb recruitment down the line), but I believe removing females from a herd can severely affect an entire herd's social structure. Bighorn herds are organized in matriarchies, and if you remove too many of the key females, it could throw the entire herd into turmoil resulting in stress-induced pneumonia. If the disease takes out even more key females, you've got a recipe for disaster. Even if many adults recover, lamb recruitment will stay low for years because of a disorganized herd social structure. I could go on and on about this particular topic, but it's something that bighorn sheep managers haven't been talking about. Honestly, I don't think they want to talk about it because it might force them to change how they conduct relocation efforts. It's much easier to blame a single cause and castigate livestock producers than to look at the issue holistically.

I apologize for this very long-winded post, but I want to emphasize that while domestic sheep pathogens are certainly a topic of great concern for bighorns and separation/mitigation efforts need to be in place, it is only one piece of a much larger puzzle and I am convinced that even if every single domestic sheep west of the Mississippi were removed, we would still see devastating pneumonia outbreaks due to the government's constant meddling with bighorn herds.

Thank you for joining and presenting a candid, articulate, and alternative point of view. Humans tend to like simple answers and like to be able to point fingers at collective groups for blame. Here, we have a case of #notAllFarmers as well as an alternative explanation. Or at least, a more nuanced explanation.