Bushnell LRTSi 4.5-18x44 Drop test/mini eval

sndmn11

WKR
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
9,321
Location
Morrison, Colorado
Bushnell LRTSi 4.5-18x44 Drop test/mini evaul. Rifle/mount/rings proofed see here consisting @HawkinsPrecision rings, Tikka T3 action with 22BR barrel from Preferred, in a Bell and Carlson stock. Sight in shots (middle black circle) were low and a little left. Corrections of .2mil up and .2mil right were made, the .2mil right was probably strong, but was left as "zero". This is my own scope purchased used maybe two years ago.

PXL_20220205_222105153.jpg


Protocol was as closely adhered to as possible https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/scope-field-eval-explanation-and-standards.246775/

~18" drops right/top/left with single shot in between, ~36" drop right/top/left single shot in between, ~36' drop rightx3/topx3/leftx3 single shot. 7 shots with 15 drops.




Results of drops marked shots 1-7 @762Gunner
PXL_20220207_171812802.jpg


The above drop testing was done outdoors at 100 yards, 20-30deg, off and on wind, and other things needed to be fit into the day. The following day I went to an indoor 100 yard range to do testing of adjustment value tracking and return to zero in a very abbreviated manner.

One shot was taken as a cold bore "zero". I then removed the elevation turret and loosened the "revlimited" zero stop's set screw. I dialed down 5 mil and shot, up 10 mils and shot, down 10 mils and shot, and repeated this for five shots down and five shots up. After the fifth shot up, I dialed down 5 mils and shot at the "zero" spot again for hot zero confirmation.

*The indoor range has some sort of mat at various distances downrange, I think it covers light fixtures on the ground, but the RO told me the edges were thin and had nothing behind them. I knew that the 5 mil down adjustment was close to the corner of a mat, see picture below. Being that I had a lot to get done in my scheduled hour, I wishfully hoped it would not interfere. I was wrong. @BjornF16 noticed in another thread some keyholes in the target, and they are from the 5 mil down shots striking the mat and presumably tumbling. One made it through after the others had cleared a path, and it measured ~1' 5 21/32" while being in a straight line that bisected the aiming point and met with the upper 5mil adjustment.

I did not realize this until after I had removed the LRTSi, mounted the SHV and tested it, and then brought the target back. So the LRTSi was remounted, a "cold" zero shot at the previous green spot, and 5 mil adjustment down was made. After each of these five shots, I dialed up 10 mils to simulate the prior test but did not shoot, and then went back to the zero target for a second "hot" zero confirmation. This is why there are four holes in the 100 yards LRTSi zero spot.


PXL_20220207_171842259.jpg

5 mils shold be 18" (1' 6")

Dialing up came to ~1' 5 13/32"
PXL_20220207_172300155.jpg

The lone survivor of getting through the barrier at ~1' 5 21/32"
PXL_20220207_172412966 (1).jpg

Re-try at a different aiming point dialing down ~1' 5 7/16"
PXL_20220207_172339652 (1).jpg


Scope view of the barrier's corner...I'm a dummy
PXL_20220206_183449731.jpg

I DID NOT follow the full 10 shot return to zero protocol for a few reasons. 1) I was running shot on time. 2) I have 30 cartridges loaded that were among the batch of 300 on virgin brass. In the event I need to retest the SHV or Maven RS.3, I do not know if something will change with once fired brass. 3) I own this scope and can share results later. 4) @Formidilosus probably has oodles of data as well, and nothing went wonky with this scope and the tests I went through. In other words, things were working and I accepted that.

Some will notice multiple "plum" lines on the cardboard, The indoor range is multiple lanes with cable/track target carriers to run the targets to the end. I did take a level and stapled the target up plum/level, but by the time it settled at the end, it was not plum. I have multiple levels on the scope, and used those to shoot. For the 5mil up and 5mil down shots, a straight line can be made from those two groups bisecting the green circle aiming point. I drew the line to show this. I think my logic is sound in that if the scope tracked in a curve, a straight line could not be made between the three points. This is also why I stopped because the best test would be on a plumed target like I can do at the outdoor range.
 
Last edited:
OP
sndmn11

sndmn11

WKR
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
9,321
Location
Morrison, Colorado
LRTSi has G3 Reticle. Rumor has it that the illuminated and non-illuminated versions have different thickness of the reticle. I couldn't say as I only have illuminated versions. Here is what the manual says:
1644271827638.png
1644271907486.png

4.5x
PXL_20220207_162705086.jpg

~9x
PXL_20220207_162824726.jpg

~13.5x
PXL_20220207_162911832.jpg

18x
PXL_20220207_162959266.jpg

4x @~113yd
PXL_20220207_162728105.jpg

Illumination is the whole hashed area of the reticle and christmas tree. I have never turned it on in the field, and learned today that it is not sunny day bright. In the above against the trees view, I could not see the illumination. Will make a point to test later in timber/overcast/etc.
4.5x illumination
PXL_20220207_163036105.jpg

Elevation turret is exposed, revolution indicated, and the "revlimiter" zero stop is a post on post (silver vertical pieces in gap under black washer) that is adjusted with three set screws once you remove the turret. This is solid. 10 mil per revolution.

Windage is exposed, has L1/R1, L2/R2, etc., resets to zero but has no stop, and is revolution indicated. While it is exposed, it locks when pushed in tight to the turret, and is required to be pulled out to adjust. 10 Mils per revolution.

Parallax is marked 50yd to infinity, Illumination has ten or eleven settings with an off position in between and can rotate both ways without stopping. Battery cap is on the end of the parallax/illumination and takes one CR2032.
PXL_20220207_163855899.jpg
PXL_20220207_164025892.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Stu

yycyak

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Apr 1, 2018
Messages
216
Heck yes.

hYt6bS9.jpg


I'm excited to see this become a standard thing. The hunting world will learn about these Well Known Roksliders who drop perfectly good rifles and optics in the name of Science.
 

Formidilosus

Super Moderator
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
8,226
@sndmn11

Good on you for doing this with your scopes and rifles. Better controlled than the first, and the trends match expected outcomes.
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,202
Location
northwest
Bushnell LRTSi 4.5-18x44 Drop test/mini evaul. Rifle/mount/rings proofed see here consisting @HawkinsPrecision rings, Tikka T3 action with 22BR barrel from Preferred, in a Bell and Carlson stock. Sight in shots (middle black circle) were low and a little left. Corrections of .2mil up and .2mil right were made, the .2mil right was probably strong, but was left as "zero"

View attachment 378173


Protocol was as closely adhered to as possible https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/scope-field-eval-explanation-and-standards.246775/

~18" drops right/top/left with single shot in between, ~36" drop right/top/left single shot in between, ~36' drop rightx3/topx3/leftx3 single shot. 7 shots with 15 drops.



View attachment 378174


The above drop testing was done outdoors at 100 yards, 20-30deg, off and on wind, and other things needed to be fit into the day. The following day I went to an indoor 100 yard range to do testing of adjustment value tracking and return to zero in a very abbreviated manner.

One shot was taken as a cold bore "zero". I then removed the elevation turret and loosened the "revlimited" zero stop's set screw. I dialed down 5 mil and shot, up 10 mils and shot, down 10 mils and shot, and repeated this for five shots down and five shots up. After the fifth shot up, I dialed down 5 mils and shot at the "zero" spot again for hot zero confirmation.

*The indoor range has some sort of mat at various distances downrange, I think it covers light fixtures on the ground, but the RO told me the edges were thin and had nothing behind them. I knew that the 5 mil down adjustment was close to the corner of a mat, see picture below. Being that I had a lot to get done in my scheduled hour, I wishfully hoped it would not interfere. I was wrong. @BjornF16 noticed in another thread some keyholes in the target, and they are from the 5 mil down shots striking the mat and presumably tumbling. One made it through after the others had cleared a path, and it measured ~1' 5 21/32" while being in a straight line that bisected the aiming point and met with the upper 5mil adjustment.

I did not realize this until after I had removed the LRTSi, mounted the SHV and tested it, and then brought the target back. So the LRTSi was remounted, a "cold" zero shot at the previous green spot, and 5 mil adjustment down was made. After each of these five shots, I dialed up 10 mils to simulate the prior test but did not shoot, and then went back to the zero target for a second "hot" zero confirmation. This is why there are four holes in the 100 yards LRTSi zero spot.


View attachment 378332

5 mils shold be 18" (1' 6")

Dialing up came to ~1' 5 13/32"
View attachment 378341

The lone survivor of getting through the barrier at ~1' 5 21/32"
View attachment 378345

Re-try at a different aiming point dialing down ~1' 5 7/16"
View attachment 378348


Scope view of the barrier's corner...I'm a dummy
View attachment 378339

I DID NOT follow the full 10 shot return to zero protocol for a few reasons. 1) I was running shot on time. 2) I have 30 cartridges loaded that were among the batch of 300 on virgin brass. In the event I need to retest the SHV or Maven RS.3, I do not know if something will change with once fired brass. 3) I own this scope and can share results later. 4) @Formidilosus probably has oodles of data as well, and nothing went wonky with this scope and the tests I went through. In other words, things were working and I accepted that.

Some will notice multiple "plum" lines on the cardboard, The indoor range is multiple lanes with cable/track target carriers to run the targets to the end. I did take a level and stapled the target up plum/level, but by the time it settled at the end, it was not plum. I have multiple levels on the scope, and used those to shoot. For the 5mil up and 5mil down shots, a straight line can be made from those two groups bisecting the green circle aiming point. I drew the line to show this. I think my logic is sound in that if the scope tracked in a curve, a straight line could not be made between the three points. This is also why I stopped because the best test would be on a plumed target like I can do at the outdoor range.
Im trying to make sense of your results, did you have poi shift with the drops?
The video won't play for me
 
OP
sndmn11

sndmn11

WKR
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
9,321
Location
Morrison, Colorado
Im trying to make sense of your results, did you have poi shift with the drops?
The video won't play for me
The video is pretty pointless to watch unless you doubt that the test was done or want to see what the drops were like.

I tagged you in the original post immediately above the drop test target dot.
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,202
Location
northwest
The video is pretty pointless to watch unless you doubt that the test was done or want to see what the drops were like.

I tagged you in the original post immediately above the drop test target dot.
Oh boy.. that's pretty disappointing those shots went all over the place.
I guess if the lrhs can't survive the drops none will
 
OP
sndmn11

sndmn11

WKR
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
9,321
Location
Morrison, Colorado
Oh boy.. that's pretty disappointing those shots went all over the place.
I guess if the lrhs can't survive the drops none will

That's why I don't really want to draw any conclusions from the results. There are different standards as to what is acceptable even though this is supposed to be an objective orocess.

I would bet all shots would touch a 1.5" circle and I think that's pretty neat. Between the barrel hitting ground on the drops, the stock not being bedded, a little wind, and an average shooter, I walked away feeling really good.
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,202
Location
northwest
That's why I don't really want to draw any conclusions from the results. There are different standards as to what is acceptable even though this is supposed to be an objective orocess.

I would bet all shots would touch a 1.5" circle and I think that's pretty neat. Between the barrel hitting ground on the drops, the stock not being bedded, a little wind, and an average shooter, I walked away feeling really good.
Your photo gives the impression that it was a 2.5" shift.
The fact that your rifle wasn't bedded could absolutely be the culprit, in fact it's such a likely cause of poi shift even without dropping the rifle that I'd pretty much say it's too much of a variable for a conclusive test
 
OP
sndmn11

sndmn11

WKR
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
9,321
Location
Morrison, Colorado
Your photo gives the impression that it was a 2.5" shift.
The fact that your rifle wasn't bedded could absolutely be the culprit, in fact it's such a likely cause of poi shift even without dropping the rifle that I'd pretty much say it's too much of a variable for a conclusive test

I lied, it would take a little over a 1.8" circle to have the edge cut by all bullet holes.

If you look close at the picture you are referencing, you will see the caliper is past the outside edge of the two furthest bullet holes.

There's another video and results with an SHV. With less or no shift depending on your perspective.

If you have an LRHS/LRTS it would be great to see your results and have more data sets.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20220208_030725610.jpg
    PXL_20220208_030725610.jpg
    315 KB · Views: 45
Last edited:

slowelk

WKR
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
1,678
Location
MT
I appreciate what sndmn is doing here, but I think there are a lot of variables that aren’t as controlled as the official testing. I would be very hesitant to make any conclusions from this testing.
 
OP
sndmn11

sndmn11

WKR
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
9,321
Location
Morrison, Colorado
I appreciate what sndmn is doing here, but I think there are a lot of variables that aren’t as controlled as the official testing. I would be very hesitant to make any conclusions from this testing.
On top of this, the wisest thing that should be asked for on this scope is a 10/20 shot group.

I would also be hesitant to make any conclusions off of @Formidilosus testing of single scopes. The idea is that testing a scope is simply that, testing the sample of one. It means there is a possibility the entire SKU has a chance of being mostly reliable, but that cannot be a statement until a much larger sample size is evaluated.
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,202
Location
northwest
On top of this, the wisest thing that should be asked for on this scope is a 10/20 shot group.

I would also be hesitant to make any conclusions off of @Formidilosus testing of single scopes. The idea is that testing a scope is simply that, testing the sample of one. It means there is a possibility the entire SKU has a chance of being mostly reliable, but that cannot be a statement until a much larger sample size is evaluated.
Well said
I appreciate you taking the time to do the test and post your results.
If anything you've shown that many variables exist, any of which can lead to zero shift.
 

kpk

WKR
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
705
Location
MN
That's why I don't really want to draw any conclusions from the results. There are different standards as to what is acceptable even though this is supposed to be an objective orocess.

I would bet all shots would touch a 1.5" circle and I think that's pretty neat. Between the barrel hitting ground on the drops, the stock not being bedded, a little wind, and an average shooter, I walked away feeling really good.

I'd feel pretty good about those results also. Doesn't take much wind to blow those 22 pills around. I'm thinking the scopes that "fail" - the results are going to be blatantly obvious.
 

Wrench

WKR
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
5,661
Location
WA
I had a rifle fall from a broken scabbard on a motorcycle. Best guess is that I was riding around 25mph when it bailed. The rifle barrel and stock took a beating, the scope did a bit better but it too was beat up showing the bell took a rock and the turrets were beat.

I shot the rifle after that and it shot about 6moa. Before the melee it was a .75moa gun.

I rebuilt the rifle and reused the scope and it was once again a sub moa rig. I never did a thing to the scope beyond clean up.

The 1200 yard shot sequence I posted over the summer was the very gun and scope.

My guess is that 90% of the issue was the barrel and 10% the mounts with a fraction of a percentage from the erector.
 
Top