hello i stopped at cabelas owatonna mn store today in the clearance room upstairs. meat grinders up to carnivore 1hp had refurbished stickers on them for discounted price i talked to a couple employees they said they are new with damaged or out of date packaging. i bought the 1hp for $200 off.regular $499 marked at $299. the bigger the machine the bigger discount and 3x points with cabelas card or $35 off with new card membership. hope this helps someone.