Climbing rated caribners for safety harness?

[MightyMatt]

While at the local large sporting goods store I noticed they now sell tree saddles. The kits from the big names in saddles had actual climbing rated caribners (kn rating and strength axis) stamped on the side. I also noticed they had a couple racks of single caribners for sale and although they were the same price as an actual rated caribner they had nothing stamped on them at all and nothing about rating on the tags. So the actual question finally, would you trust your life in the event of a fall to an oversized key chain clip or do you upgrade the hardware?
I have to be honest, I used them for years because I didn't know any better. Until I started saddle hunting and watching some of the break testing guys do on YouTube with caribners and different rope and amsteel, I just assumed they wouldn't sell it with a safety harness if it wasn't safe right? Just a thought that would be nice to test. If anyone knows anyone that does this kind of testing it would be nice to see the results. Im sure they will hold 300 lbs in a static load situation but drop that 300 lbs 5 or 6 feet and you are looking at some serious force being loaded on that clip. Maybe I'm overthinking it, maybe the no name beaners are way stronger because they over build it and don't bother to test? Just something to think about and the use the right tool for the job deal maybe?
Anyway hopefully this might lead to some testing or forcing companies to step up their game when it comes to possibly saving someone's life. Or maybe keep one of you guys from getting hurt or killed if the strength ratings are not up to snuff with what your using now. Better to pick up a $10 climbing rated clip than risk it with the mystery made in china who knows what steel one that comes with the harness.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Not a tree saddle guy but I replace my clips with stuff I buy at REI or a rock climbing bear store. It’s cheap insurance IMO.

 

[Marbles]

In that application, a caribner is a life safety product. If it is not rated I would not us it.

In the rigging industry, life safety applications should have a safety factor of 10 (i.e. 10x stronger than expected max load). In climbing you will see lower safety factors for wieght savings, though such products are targeted to more skilled users who are more likely to take proper care of their gear and less likely to improperly use it.

If you don't have a rating, you have no way of knowing if it will do what you need. As a kid, I repelled 40 feet using 550 cord, I figured I was only about 100 lbs, so it was plenty strong. It worked, but I certainly would not do such a thing now. I vew unrated caribners as an equally unwise choice. You might get away with it, but to get crippled just to save $10-30 would be hard to live with.

I would also question any saddle that came with an unrated caribner as it might not be designed for what I expect it to do.

 

[Dos Perros]

I see enough material that in lab testing fails to meet even ASTM standards even though the vendor asserts compliance (with a stupid form). I sure as shit wouldn't trust something that didn't even try to fake some performance claims. Good post OP, might have saved someone an injury or worse.

 

[kpk]

I have used carabiners like the middle ones pictured for years. I always use 2 and oppose(??) them so the gates are opposite each other. Usually set up so that my max "fall" is probably only a foot or so.

The one one on the bottom looks like the typical steel ones that come with all the harnesses.

From what I've seen those steel ones are usually 5,000lbs whereas 24kn is like 5,400lbs.

I use the Black Diamond ones because 10 of them weigh about the same as 1 steel one.

 

[Superdoo]

IF IT AINT STAMPED, DONT USE IT!!!!

 

[Sccritterkiller]

Steel twist lock only. I have seen aluminum get cracks not visible to the naked eye after a few years and fail under load. I spent 10 yrs climbing towers installing cell antennas.
You would be amazed at the forces from a 4' fall with a decel lanyard. Came off once at about 150' was bruised and sore for a good 2 weeks. Something most folks don't think about is once you do come off and stop you gonna smack into whatever your tied off too...and it feels almost as awesome as the stop from the decel line.

 

[MightyMatt]

I appreciate the responses, I mainly posted this to let people know. They say ignorance is bliss, and I went along for years with those unmarked knockoffs of climbing caribners thinking I was being as safe as I could be. I had never thought about it until I was standing there looking at the rack of 40 caribners like the one on the bottom pic. If this thread saves a single fellow outdoorsmen and their family the tragedy of a bad fall I have done something to help. Let your friends know to check their gear and spend the little of nothing to get the right hardware. It could be any one of us otherwise without the insight to check.

 

[Loebs]

I've been in the fire service for over 20 years, and am the officer that runs the special operations team for my shift. Please anyone reading this, don't use anything that isn't stamped and certified. You may save a few bucks, but one fall can reveal cheap gear. Life safety equipment can have up to a 10x safety factor. The Kn ratting will give you a basic idea of the rating for that specific piece of equipment. (A kiloNewton is equal to about 225 lbs., which is a force of gravity rating, not static weight or mass. If you remember back to algebra class, force is equal to mass times acceleration), so a 25kn carabineer is rated for 5625lbs. You would choke if you priced out the gear we use. 10-15 bucks for a decent rated carabineer is a steal. Most of my personal gear is 40 bucks and up for a single carabineer. But my life and the victims life is worth every penny.

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

 

[JR Greenhorn]

I made the decision years ago to only have climbing-rated carabineers around, that way they are always up to any task. If you buy the "rack pack" sets on sale, they're almost as cheap as the non-rated "accessory clips." After watching someone else's kid's hammock let go and plummet to the ground, I'm convinced it's the way to do it.

 

[moxford]

SAR here, Type-1 high angle .... use rated gear, full stop. Save your money other places.

Also, look up fall-factors and be super careful using static line as even short falls can really, really, really mess you up.

Stay safe,
-mox

 

[BBob]

Also, look up fall-factors and be super careful using static line as even short falls can really, really, really mess you up.

Fall factor and impact force - theory - Petzl USA

www.petzl.com

Forces at work in a real fall - Petzl USA

www.petzl.com

 

[moxford]

Note those are on a dynamic rope with a belayer for soft-catch ... very very different than a static line with a hardpoint anchor.

Basically, yes, a static will stop you, but you may get snapped in half from the hard jolt.

Climb Safe: The Dangers of Short Static Falls

CRACK! The jolt back onto the bolt, into which you are still quickdraw-tethered, stuns you. You only fell two feet, but your neck is stiff and your innards feel like they’ve been kicked by a mule.

www.rockandice.com

Cheers,
-mox

 

[BBob]

@moxford True, but even short high fall factor falls on a dynamic can break you