Colorado Preference Point Focus Group

[realunlucky]

You can hunt a top tier tag a few times per species before you are old enough to vote, and to can bank on that. You can also hunt a mid tier tag every single year for each species. If it were random, there's a chance to might not hunt at all. That's no fun for a teen.

I'm afraid I've distracted from the actual purpose of this thread. I merely wanted to point out that points do give an advantage in every single system regardless if it's preference, bonus, and hybrid.

OP @Gunnersdad49 I apologize for the run down the rabbit hole.

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[IDElkmagnet]

What specific units/tags?

I think deer 44 2nd last year.
40 arch elk in like 19 or 20.

 

[street]

NM-style draw would be the last thing I would want in CO if I was a nonresident. Careful what you wish for.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I think deer 44 2nd last year.
40 arch elk in like 19 or 20.

It is pretty crazy that unit 44 2nd rifle deer tags jumped 7 points year-over-year. I'm guessing that jump was caused by CPW pushing back the dates of 2nd season. 3rd and 4th season deer tags in unit 44 have historically required 20+ points, and as of 2021, 2nd season now occurs when 3rd season used to be.

I'm not seeing a sudden spike in point creep for archery elk in unit 40. Minimum non-resident points to draw that tag (EE040O1A) in recent years have been:
2018 = 11
2019 = 12
2020 = 13
2021 = 14

 

[sndmn11]

I think deer 44 2nd last year.
40 arch elk in like 19 or 20.

40 archery elk NR went up one point from 2018-2019 predictable since only one applicant drew at the point level in 2018, 2019-2020 went up one point predictable because only one applicant drew at the point level in 2019, 2020-2021 went up one point predictable because only two applicants drew at the point level in 2020. I looked back a few more years and it is one point a year. Some folks call that a trend, and some of those folks would call trends predictable.

I will be interested to see if 44 2nd season deer goes down this year.

Similar story, the one time I applied out of state was for WY phorn doe tags based on looking at their leftover (or whatever it is called) list from the year prior so we could have a ball trying to hunt up 8 horned does between my wife and I. Apparently everyone else had the same idea and it went from having leftover doe tags to having ~1400 applicants in a year. My response wasn't to try and get WY to change their ways, or write letters to the Feds, or call state government officials to explain how I got screwed. I said shuckydarn and had a fun hunting season regardless.

 

[npm352]

I don't think some of you guys are thinking this through.

I'm reading that some NR want all OTC to go to draw for NR...guys saying they'd be happy with that change. And on top of this, the possibly inevitable move to 90/10 is looming (once Colorado figures out how to fund the losses). So once NR get only 10% of limited tags, those 10% now include all the shitty units that are still OTC for residents. So instead of 25% of the decent to excellent tags, NR will get 10% of tags which include the units with 87 orange dots every square mile.

The best thing NR can do for point creep is pray that tag allocations stay the same and Colorado continues its liberal NR opportunities with OTC units and limited entry tags.

 

[sndmn11]

I don't think some of you guys are thinking this through.

I'm reading that some NR want all OTC to go to draw for NR...guys saying they'd be happy with that change. And on top of this, the possibly inevitable move to 90/10 is looming (once Colorado figures out how to fund the losses). So once NR get only 10% of limited tags, those 10% now include all the shitty units that are still OTC for residents. So instead of 25% of the decent to excellent tags, NR will get 10% of tags which include the units with 87 orange dots every square mile.

The best thing NR can do for point creep is pray that tag allocations stay the same and Colorado continues its liberal NR opportunities with OTC units and limited entry tags.

Bingoyahtzee!

 

[5MilesBack]

If your 12 this year you cannot live long enough to get PREFERENCE for a top tier tag.

Why do people think that they HAVE to get preference for a few units that give out so few tags that it makes absolutely no sense at all for 99.9% of applicants to apply for or even try for???? There are plenty of units that every 12 year old this year applying CAN eventually get preference for. On the other hand, a 12 year old can pretty easily draw a tag in unit 201 for elk most years, and most would consider 201 a top tier unit. They'll have a cow tag, but my goodness......are they going to then complain about getting the wrong tag in a top tier unit?

When I started hunting in 1980, everyone I knew that hunted tried to draw cow tags. If you didn't draw, you got a point which pretty much assured that you would draw the next year. And when you didn't draw, you bought an OTC bull tag. But every year we were all hunting.......which is what the whole intent is.......to be hunting.

 

[IDElkmagnet]

40 archery elk NR went up one point from 2018-2019 predictable since only one applicant drew at the point level in 2018, 2019-2020 went up one point predictable because only one applicant drew at the point level in 2019, 2020-2021 went up one point predictable because only two applicants drew at the point level in 2020. I looked back a few more years and it is one point a year. Some folks call that a trend, and some of those folks would call trends predictable.

I will be interested to see if 44 2nd season deer goes down this year.

Similar story, the one time I applied out of state was for WY phorn doe tags based on looking at their leftover (or whatever it is called) list from the year prior so we could have a ball trying to hunt up 8 horned does between my wife and I. Apparently everyone else had the same idea and it went from having leftover doe tags to having ~1400 applicants in a year. My response wasn't to try and get WY to change their ways, or write letters to the Feds, or call state government officials to explain how I got screwed. I said shuckydarn and had a fun hunting season regardless.

So yeah 44 second did.
I must be mistaken on the unit and/or year for elk. I cannot remember off the top of my head but there is an elk unit that I think did and I don’t really care enough to prove it. Either way not exactly like waiting in line at the grocery store as stated. That was my only point. But you continue to deflect it says a lot about your willingness to double down on the semantics of your argument. You are no more likely to change opinions as I am to change yours.

 

[ColoradoV]

My only question for them will be to ask the CPW “Why they hate us resident hunters so much”??

Or why such disdain for us locals and why should we continue to be treated this way? Real question in the current environment..

We Colorado residents are treated so unfairly when compared to the rest of the western locals that it is a reasonable question to ask.

I will report back w a answer!

 

[cnelk]

My only question for them will be to ask the CPW “Why they hate us resident hunters so much”??

Or why such disdain for us locals and why should we continue to be treated this way? Real question in the current environment..

We Colorado residents are treated so unfairly when compared to the rest of the western locals that it is a reasonable question to ask.

I will report back w a answer!

Whaaaa??

Not gonna mention your typical bashing of the CBA as its all their fault?

 

[NickyD]

I don't think some of you guys are thinking this through.

I'm reading that some NR want all OTC to go to draw for NR...guys saying they'd be happy with that change. And on top of this, the possibly inevitable move to 90/10 is looming (once Colorado figures out how to fund the losses). So once NR get only 10% of limited tags, those 10% now include all the shitty units that are still OTC for residents. So instead of 25% of the decent to excellent tags, NR will get 10% of tags which include the units with 87 orange dots every square mile.

The best thing NR can do for point creep is pray that tag allocations stay the same and Colorado continues its liberal NR opportunities with OTC units and limited entry tags.

But at some point your “opportunity” to get a tag reduces your opportunity to have a good hunt. All of my leftover/OTC tag hunts are completely overrun with people. It’s not fun when you can’t effectively spot and stalk an animal over a mile away because they likelihood of someone interfering with your hunt is almost a guarantee.

If all you care about is “getting out in the woods and enjoying the experience” then I suggest you just go camping.

 

[5MilesBack]

My only question for them will be to ask the CPW “Why they hate us resident hunters so much”??

Or why such disdain for us locals and why should we continue to be treated this way? Real question in the current environment..

That's pretty much the environment on a national level in America as well.......American citizens last. Being such a leftist state now, I'm sure that's just a trickle down effect of those policies regardless where they are.

 

[npm352]

But at some point your “opportunity” to get a tag reduces your opportunity to have a good hunt. All of my leftover/OTC tag hunts are completely overrun with people. It’s not fun when you can’t effectively spot and stalk an animal over a mile away because they likelihood of someone interfering with your hunt is almost a guarantee.

If all you care about is “getting out in the woods and enjoying the experience” then I suggest you just go camping.

May want to read my post. I was addressing the comments that some NR want OTC to go to draw for only NR and stay OTC for residents. This would not solve the problem you are describing. Making all OTC units draw would help the issue, depending on the tags allocations on a given unit, and that's a fair opinion, but I think there are better ways to address point creep without taking away opportunity.

What I was describing is what is happening in WY. It takes about 8-9 years of points for a NR to get a region G tag. Residents buy the tag at Wal-Mart. It is still crowded.

States will do what they will do, and while they have the right to do so, it is pretty shitty to build your herds and your game department on NR money then turn around and shit on them.

 

[Vail94]

Agreed. A percentage of tags, as small as it may be, allocated to a random draw. Maintains the preference point system for the highest point holders, yet provides an opportunity for all applicants.

 

[sndmn11]

Agreed. A percentage of tags, as small as it may be, allocated to a random draw. Maintains the preference point system for the highest point holders, yet provides an opportunity for all applicants.

And accelerates point creep.

 

[Coveyleader]

Status quo on resident OTC tags.

Reduction in NR allocations and draw for all OTC tags. Up cost of NR tags around the price of WY special tags to make up for any lost revenue.

Any tag acquired, points will be used.


FYI I’ve been to these meetings in the past, it’s all feel good stuff. Commission will do what they want and the “public had there input heard”


Reissue tags, make them random again, day before listing sucks.

 

[ColoradoV]

Whaaaa??

Not gonna mention your typical bashing of the CBA as its all their fault?

Naw they don’t have anything to do w it. Since you forgot - the “elk only” cba were the single reason that archery mule deer hunt lost the best 5-6 days of hunting degrading the hunt and causing extreme overcrowding.

Driving a spike between deer and elk hunters. But hey screw the deer hunter right? As long as non resident elk hunters are happy carry on ….

Spade is still a spade man… Thanks again Colorado Bowhunters Ass!!

 

[prm]

All systems in western states have the same problem of demand is greater than supply. No change in the system, short of dramatically reducing success rates, corrects this. The system can impact:
Ability to hunt together with friends or family
Predictability of hunting a unit/season
Balance of Res vs. NR
Distribution of hunters across seasons and locations
Distribution and numbers of hunters by weapon capability (success rates)

The first step in this process is to decide what you want the allocation system to achieve. Then you have the challenge of implementing a system while fairly considering those heavily invested in a current system.

I would like to hunt each year and be able to do so with friends and family. Success rates are less important me. Seeing some game and not having the woods feel too crowded is important. To meet demand, I think they would have to shift a higher portion of tags to archery (lower success rates), and have more archery seasons. Higher success means fewer tags. Split September into two seasons and make 1st rifle season archery (+crossbow & Muzzleloader). That would enable more licenses to be sold to meet game management objectives. Splitting Sept could add quite a few tags without impacting crowding, not sure how many you’d want to add to 1st.

I much prefer rifle hunting, but understand that something has to give in this situation.

If you hunt, no added points. Not sure about taking someone to zero for any hunt. Does that screw folks who have built for many years? Would need to think that through.

 

[tdhanses]

How do you figure? If you start at age 12 and live an average lifespan gaining a point each year, you will eventually reach the top tier of Colorado pointholders. The points needed to draw a top tier tag can't rise infinitely because everyone eventually dies.

It would be interesting if they also listed avg age of point holders, for all we know in 10 years we may see a huge reduction at the top that just either dies off or nolonger feels they can do these types of hunts and the points never get used.