Combining Crossfit w/ Mtn Specific & Endurance Training

[Poser]

Question for those of you who do Crossfit or Crossfit type workouts as a principal part of your training for mountain hunting. I've been do Crossfit since Feb and have experienced good gains, putting on 10 lbs of muscle with steady strength improvements which I feel should directly benefit my performance while mountain hunting. In conjunction with those workouts, I try to balance some endurance training weekly: running, biking as well as hiking with a weighted pack. For the running, I have scaled that back to one hard run a week with 1 or 2 recovery runs (long runs have gotten in increasingly scaled back to short, difficult runs). For hiking with a heavy pack, its been more schedule dependent (turkey season) and based on my level of soreness from strength training.

As we enter the summer months, I feel like I need to increase my time spent under the weight of a pack. I am curious how you guys balance that out with your other training (strength, endurance etc) without hitting a state of overtraining or not getting maximum benefit from each of your workouts. Basically, I get one day a week right now with a fresh set of legs. Any other day of the week, my legs are sore in some capacity, whether from weight training, running or humping hills with a pack or combination thereof.

I'd like to continue my strength gains, though I obviously want to perform well for sustained periods of time under the weight of a pack. At some point though, long, grueling inclines with a pack are going to start eating muscle. Where do you find the balance?

 

[djsmith46]

I do not do crossfit or even cross fit type workouts (other than an occasional metabolic conditioning kettle bell session). But I have been involved in strength training for a couple decades now. In my opinion anyone will find it difficult to maximize their lower body strength if they will be adding in large amounts of hiking/running/weighted pack exercise. This is why speed and strength athletes don't perform much long drawn out intense cardio sessions. There are two primary reasons for this. For strength and power you want to train the muscles to maximize output through speed and explosion. The second reason being more likely than not your "cardio" training will "eat" away at your mass gains unless you are constantly eating. Since you seem like you may be a hard gainer you're probably in this category.

My advice would be to figure out what is your main goal. If mountain hunter beast is your goal, then train with a pack, continue your strength training and listen to your body. And most likely don't worry too much about the ten pounds of muscle you just gained. This is coming from a former powerlifter who loves being strong but 3000 foot elevation gains and 60 pound packs doesn't care that I'm a 675 pound deadlifter and a 450 bench presser. That's why I'm losing weight and changing my training to become a better hunter. Hope this helps.

 

[Ironman8]

Poser,

I just started Crossfit and I've got my first mountain hunt this year, so I'm a novice at both. However, I've been doing crossfit type (plyo and functionl strength) workouts for quite a while with my college baseball and since then, so I'm not a novice to strength and conditioning. I'm a big believer in training your body to do whatever it is you want it to do. If you want to be a world class runner or world class power lifter, then train your butt off doing just that. But if you're (like me) training for a good balance of the two, then you have to do both types of workouts. You won't be "world class" in either, but I believe you will get what you want.

I think Crossfit type of workouts along with endurance training mixed in with a little heavy pack workouts (preferably traveling on inclines/declines) is a great combo for mountain hunting. A perfect example of this is Cameron Hanes. He may be a much better natural athlete than either of us (I don't know you, so I'm just assuming) but he does all the above types of exercising and look at what he can do. He puts up a very respectable amount of weight, hikes/hunts well with a heavy pack, and just finished the Boston marathon...and qualified for next year's in the process. No question, the guy is a beast...but I think that may be one of the best examples I can illustrate.

Regarding eating into muscle with all the endurance training, that will be more a funcion of how much you're eating to sustain these types of workouts. You may burn a little, but unless you're competing in a bodybuilding event, I would worry less about how much muscle you have and more about your functional strength/power/endurance gains. Just listen to your body and slow it down when you need to.

 

[Poser]

Thanks for the response. I've definitely been "eating constantly" For real, I'm hungry all day long. When I take a complete rest day (nothing besides some stretching), I literally eat all day long, non stop, starving if I go more than 2 hours without eating. THink I'll just stick with my constant eating in the hopes of continuing to make some strength gains.

The other bit of advice makes total sense. I have been studying the Crossfit Endurance program some. (My box does not offer CFE simply because there is not enough immediate interest to provide the program). The CFE programming is built around sport specific (run, swim, bike, ruck) or multi sport (triathlete) training. Here is an example: http://www.crossfitendurance.com/blog/1/post/1123 If you scroll down, you'll notice that you have a sport specific choice on the Endurance portion of the workout which they want you to do at least 3 hours before or after the stength portion of the workout. The Ruck specific work out:

Ruck (TUE): Repeat 1k, recover 2:00, until form/pace deteriorates, 60# Ruck/Boots/Utes

I have noticed that they want you to keep these endurance workout between 10 and 90 minutes:

If you currently attend CrossFit classes and are looking to incorporate Endurance Wods our suggestion is this:
Running: Start with 8 x 200m repeats working up to 4-5 x 800m repeats.
Bike: Start with 8-10 x 1/4-mile repeats working up to 4-5 x 2k repeats.
Swimming: Start with 10 x 50m/y working up to 10 x 100m/y.
Rowing: Start with 8 X 500m working up to 4-5 X 1K repeats.
Meaning you should be able to handle this workout and a CrossFit Endurance S&C workout in one day. PROGRESSION is the key.
For Stamina (tempo and time trial) you should build from 10 minutes to 90 minutes depending on the distance. You will never really need to train much further than the 90-minute mark if you are working hard enough.

 

[Archelk]

Hey Poser, I have been Crossfitting for the last 7 years. I was going to recommend that you look at Crossfit Endurance but you have already done that. As far as my hunting goes with my workout plan I usually save my days off and go on long hikes with a weighted pack with anywhere from 50-100lbs. I was always listen to my body no matter what and I rest accordingly. I know that Crossfit follows a 3 on 1 off philosophy but listen to your body. It's okay to not adhere 100% to the program. Just taylor what works for you and your goals. I tend to do alot more bodyweight, metabolic workouts the closer elk season gets here. You can always go back to a heavier module workout plan afterwards.

I am 40 years old and have been in the best shape of my life the last 7 years but because of my work and my son and scheduling I have just adopted Crossfit and then my hiking trips with a weighted pack to my lifestyle. I am extremely fortunate that I have my own box in my garage with everything I need for Crossfit so that helps.

I live in a flat area of Texas but have experienced no issues when going to Colorado to hunt elk with my Crossfit/Hike program. I agree with Muscle Man abouyt not worrying about how much muscle you have or are gaining unless that is what you want. Before Crossfit I weighed a solid 225 with muscle. I had an issue one day at SWAT training trying to climb a rope with my entire kit on and told myself after that that I no longer cared about looking big. I wanted to be functionally fit. I started Crossfit went down to 195 and again I'm in the best shape of my life. I may not be as big(muscle) but coming from a overall functional fitness level I'm at my best and I would not trade that for anything.

 

[afteamroper]

Question for those of you who do Crossfit or Crossfit type workouts as a principal part of your training for mountain hunting. I've been do Crossfit since Feb and have experienced good gains, putting on 10 lbs of muscle with steady strength improvements which I feel should directly benefit my performance while mountain hunting. In conjunction with those workouts, I try to balance some endurance training weekly: running, biking as well as hiking with a weighted pack. For the running, I have scaled that back to one hard run a week with 1 or 2 recovery runs (long runs have gotten in increasingly scaled back to short, difficult runs). For hiking with a heavy pack, its been more schedule dependent (turkey season) and based on my level of soreness from strength training.

As we enter the summer months, I feel like I need to increase my time spent under the weight of a pack. I am curious how you guys balance that out with your other training (strength, endurance etc) without hitting a state of overtraining or not getting maximum benefit from each of your workouts. Basically, I get one day a week right now with a fresh set of legs. Any other day of the week, my legs are sore in some capacity, whether from weight training, running or humping hills with a pack or combination thereof.

I'd like to continue my strength gains, though I obviously want to perform well for sustained periods of time under the weight of a pack. At some point though, long, grueling inclines with a pack are going to start eating muscle. Where do you find the balance?

Another thing to look into is traintohunt.com it is a great program that combines crossfit style workouts with weighted pack work and shooting with your heart rate elevated. I have been following it for a little over a year now and it made a great improvement on last years hunting season. If you have questions feel free to ask.

 

[Poser]

Hey Poser, I have been Crossfitting for the last 7 years. I was going to recommend that you look at Crossfit Endurance but you have already done that. As far as my hunting goes with my workout plan I usually save my days off and go on long hikes with a weighted pack with anywhere from 50-100lbs. I was always listen to my body no matter what and I rest accordingly. I know that Crossfit follows a 3 on 1 off philosophy but listen to your body. It's okay to not adhere 100% to the program. Just taylor what works for you and your goals. I tend to do alot more bodyweight, metabolic workouts the closer elk season gets here. You can always go back to a heavier module workout plan afterwards.

I am 40 years old and have been in the best shape of my life the last 7 years but because of my work and my son and scheduling I have just adopted Crossfit and then my hiking trips with a weighted pack to my lifestyle. I am extremely fortunate that I have my own box in my garage with everything I need for Crossfit so that helps.

I live in a flat area of Texas but have experienced no issues when going to Colorado to hunt elk with my Crossfit/Hike program. I agree with Muscle Man abouyt not worrying about how much muscle you have or are gaining unless that is what you want. Before Crossfit I weighed a solid 225 with muscle. I had an issue one day at SWAT training trying to climb a rope with my entire kit on and told myself after that that I no longer cared about looking big. I wanted to be functionally fit. I started Crossfit went down to 195 and again I'm in the best shape of my life. I may not be as big(muscle) but coming from a overall functional fitness level I'm at my best and I would not trade that for anything.

Thanks for the response. I'm definitely not concerned with looking big, I just feel that the recent strength gains have really benefited my performance in relation to being in shape for the mountains. in 2013, I didn't do any weight lifting and had been focused more on running. My legs had gotten pretty scrawny and weak as a result. Since I've gotten stronger, I can definitely tell a difference under the weight of a pack. For one, it just feels lighter as I am used to being under heavy weight, but I can also feel the power in my legs when I hit a steep angle and really need to dig in. I feel like I could benefit from some more strength in that department.

I've been doing Crossfit since January so I'm still in the upswing stage of gaining strength. That should probably plateau off a bit here shortly. I'm glad to see that you have had satisfactory results in the mountains by simplifying combing Crossfit prescribed workouts and hiking with a weighted pack. I have been experimenting with the Crossfit scheduling in relation to the endurance training and it seems like I do better with 2 days on 1 day off of Crossfit. When I do 3 consecutive days, I'm pretty beat on the third day. Now, if I scale back the endurance training for a week and just focus on Crossfit, I can do 3 on. What really gets me though is if I end up with back to back leg work outs. I had one week where I did a hard hike on Sunday, went to Crossfit on Monday morning and had front squats, Showed up on Tuesday and had back squats. That completely nailed me and I had to take 2 or 3 full days off after that series. I also felt like that week was counter productive training wise as it was simply too much work. That's the one disadvantage to not knowing what the WOD is ahead of time.

 

[Archelk]

Hey Poser if you are following the mainsite and its WOD's I would start your workouts a week behind what is posted. Reason for it is when you have a big endurance WOD you will know what is coming up for a workout with the main site. If you think the workouts will be too much then I program my own workout. I also follow a local gym and their programming and so if I don't like a workout because I think it's hitting too much of the same area I just simply look up a workout from the past and incorporate it. Again you do what is comfortable for you. If the 2 on 1 off works that is great. Nothing is set in stone and no one is going to jump down your throat for it. It's all about you and your goals and gains and not anybody else. Sorry for the delay but I had surgery so I've been healing up

 

[justinspicher]

Mr. Poser,

I wouldn't overlook recovery. That is one theme that I often see is not hardly, if ever mentioned during these types of threads. It doesn't matter how much you work out or how much a person tries to balance between strength and endurance, if you don't allow your body to recover, it is all for not. As I have gotten older I am finding out how much more recovery plays a role in my workouts. I used to try and work out two sometimes three times a day and just felt wore out. Now I do one solid workout and stretch or do Yoga twice to three times a day. Huge dividends, at least for me. Your diet, as everyone knows also plays a part in what you need to be able to function, and that it probably the hardest part. It is for me. I love to eat and soda is a very dear friend of mine.

If you want (or anyone else), pm me with your email address and I will send you some different thought perspectives that Mark Twight (gymjones founder) has on building strength for endurance. He is a world class mountaineer and has trained everyone from athletes to SOF dudes with amazing results.

From my experience level and through a lot of trial and error, I started in the same boat you are in. I rarely run now because running sucks and I hurt worse afterwards. I think you are on the right path and only you know what will work for you. I don't think there is end all, be all workout program, and after all, if you want to be fit for the mountains, you gotta go to the mountains. Training in the gym and running, swimming and biking will help, but the only true way to be better is to go to the mountains. (my opinion, take it for what its worth).

Good luck in your training!

 

[Poser]

Mr. Poser,

I wouldn't overlook recovery. That is one theme that I often see is not hardly, if ever mentioned during these types of threads. It doesn't matter how much you work out or how much a person tries to balance between strength and endurance, if you don't allow your body to recover, it is all for not. As I have gotten older I am finding out how much more recovery plays a role in my workouts. I used to try and work out two sometimes three times a day and just felt wore out. Now I do one solid workout and stretch or do Yoga twice to three times a day. Huge dividends, at least for me. Your diet, as everyone knows also plays a part in what you need to be able to function, and that it probably the hardest part. It is for me. I love to eat and soda is a very dear friend of mine.

If you want (or anyone else), pm me with your email address and I will send you some different thought perspectives that Mark Twight (gymjones founder) has on building strength for endurance. He is a world class mountaineer and has trained everyone from athletes to SOF dudes with amazing results.

From my experience level and through a lot of trial and error, I started in the same boat you are in. I rarely run now because running sucks and I hurt worse afterwards. I think you are on the right path and only you know what will work for you. I don't think there is end all, be all workout program, and after all, if you want to be fit for the mountains, you gotta go to the mountains. Training in the gym and running, swimming and biking will help, but the only true way to be better is to go to the mountains. (my opinion, take it for what its worth).

Good luck in your training!

Cool. Yeah, I've been building in 2 days off a week. Sometimes its hard to resist training, but I feel so much better the next day that I know it pays off.
I'm actually very familiar with Mark Twight. I used to be a climber for a number of years and used it book Extreme Alpinism as a training guide back 12-14 years ago. I've followed his blogging on and off since then as I always enjoyed and identified with somewhat his commentary, outlook and punk rock attitude. I would like to read what you have by him though, in case it is something I have missed. I'll PM you.

So far, I am feeling good about doing the shorter intense workouts for Endurance training. Back a number of years ago, I did the Endurance junkie method of training and I feel like I'm getting way better results now.

 

[Sboada]

Look into Mountain Athlete/Military Athlete. Functional fitness with mountain audience in mind. I have used it for two years and found it much more effective, and less injury prone, than standard CF. I did subscribe to CFE for a few years while racing triathlons and maintaining combat fitness and found it to be effective, but extremely time consuming requiring two a days most days.

 

[justinspicher]

How is your training going?

 

[RyanC]

Have you checked out www.traintohunt.com
This is a fitness website designed specifically for hunters. Yes it is a bit like crossfit with minimal equipment, packing, shooting, etc. all mixed in to the workouts. If you're looking for a training system that is specific for hunters you should take a look at it or drop the owner Kenton an email ([email protected]).

Ryan

 

[Poser]

How is your training going?

Pretty well, I think. Had some overtraining issues at first, but it balanced out eventually. I found that with some planning, I can do high volume weeks (7-8 split workouts over 5 days) followed by a "moderate" week of 4-5 workouts with only 1 split day over 5 days, then I tend to be good.

I do 2 rest days a week with 2 consecutive rest days every couple of weeks and 3-4 days off every 2 months or so.