Conflicting tuning

[Wodez]

Hey Archers
I have had my 3rd range session with my new 31” Mathews v3 at 75 pound.
I have put 150+ arrows through it

but on my last range session I did some tuning and different tuning contradicted the other.
Field points and broad heads were grouping together.
I had a bare shaft paper tune shooting nock slightly left and even less high = move rest right and up. But the tear was minimal so I moved on.

i shot a fletched arrow and a bare shaft at 30 yards and the bare shaft hit right 8”and slightly low 4” = move rest left? And Down?

Also the bare shafts at 30 yards were pointing nock left = move rest right?
im not sure what this type of tuning is called but i seen it in a ranch fairy video.

Today I had my local shop adjust the timing slightly now the strings and cables have stretched/settled. It Only needed half a twist but I am hoping this might make my tuning adjustments more obvious.
But if it doesn’t which way would you go?

 

[Billy Goat]

If your field points and broadheads are grouping together that is ultimately your goal. The other stuff you are doing is to get to that point. So if they are together, I'd leave it.

Doing bareshafts tuning you are testing your form as much as anything. If it's only your third shooting session with that bow, you probably aren't that dialed into it yet. When playing with bareshafts make sure it's repeatable. I'll shoot two bareshafts, and shoot them 3 times to ensure its not me. They are very sensitive to things.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I agree that if your broadheads and field points are hitting together, you've achieved the end goal of tuning and should just leave it be.

There's no conflicting information in your tuning results thus far. Low/right bareshaft point of impact is telling you the same thing as a nock high/left paper tear and nock left bareshaft angle of impact. FWIW, I personally don't pay much attention to angle of impact in the target because inconsistencies in the target medium can skew the results.

Possible adjustments to fix your vertical tune:

• Advance timing of bottom cam
• Retard timing of top cam
• Lower nocking point
• Raise rest

Possible horizontal adjustments:

• Shim cams to the left
• Add twists to left leg of cable yoke
  • (Edit: not an option on a Mathews V3)
• Remove twists from right leg cable yoke
  • (Edit: not an option on a Mathews V3)
• Move rest to the right

Another possible explanation for different bareshaft vs. fletched shaft results is fletching contact. If you suspect fletching contact, fix that first before making any other adjustments.

Here's a handy tuning reference guide from Gold Tip:

 

[DOMMA]

Shooting a BS at 30 yards is difficult even if your bow is tuned perfectly, BS are sensitive to grip pressure, face contact, release.....

I would get the BS dialed in at 10 or 15 yards.

 

[5MilesBack]

Field points and broad heads were grouping together.

At what distance? I would BH tune at least at 40 yards if not further. It shows the differences better and adjustments show quickly as well.

As said above, I don't see any conflicting tuning going on. Here's a tuning conflict I had that I haven't been able to explain yet. At 20 yards BS's were hitting left of fletched and nock right. But BH's were hitting right of FP's consistently at 60. Elevation was perfect for both. Those are opposite tuning adjustments to fix. So I finally shot BS's at 40 yards........and they were consistently hitting right of fletched......just as the BH's were showing at 60. So that's what I tuned to to get BH's good at 60 and BS's good at 40. BS's are still left at 20, but BH's are good at 20.

 

[Zac]

That tuning is not conflicting at all. Your bare shaft was tail left, and tail high. That means it is planing point right, and point down. This is exactly what you saw at 30 yards. The fletching you have on is probably correcting this and overwhelming your broadhead at the distances you say are hitting together. If you used a larger surface area broadhead you may see the same impact point as your bareshaft. You could move your rest up and to the right just a touch to correct that bare shaft hole.

 

[Wodez]

Thanks for clarifying.
My broadhead tune is good out to 60.
I shot 2 bare shafts and they were within 1” of each other at 30 but right and low.
I couldn’t find much info on which way to move the rest for left and right bareshafts. Most charts just said spine too weak or stiff and had no rest adjustments for left and right. The one I did find is different to what you guys are saying. I think that is where my confusion started.

 

[Zac]

So that reaction is weak because it's tail left. If you want to test the theory start taking quarter turns out of your limb bolts and see if those bareshafts start lining out straight at 30 yards. Also what fletching config and broadhead are you using?

 

[406unltd]

If BH and FP are grouping then that’s it. Not gonna hunt with the bareshaft anyhow. Bareshaft is finicky and in my experience nothing but perfect shots, and grip hit the way you want them to. For me if BH is dead on at 60 I’d leave her alone.

 

[Samdemarais]

Thanks for clarifying.
My broadhead tune is good out to 60.
I shot 2 bare shafts and they were within 1” of each other at 30 but right and low.
I couldn’t find much info on which way to move the rest for left and right bareshafts. Most charts just said spine too weak or stiff and had no rest adjustments for left and right. The one I did find is different to what you guys are saying. I think that is where my confusion started.

If your broadheads are hitting behind your pin consistently out to 60 and grouping tight I wouldn’t worry about the bare shaft

 

[JCY]

Thanks for clarifying.
My broadhead tune is good out to 60.
I shot 2 bare shafts and they were within 1” of each other at 30 but right and low.
I couldn’t find much info on which way to move the rest for left and right bareshafts. Most charts just said spine too weak or stiff and had no rest adjustments for left and right. The one I did find is different to what you guys are saying. I think that is where my confusion started.

There is a lot of sound advice on this thread. The good broadhead group is the ultimate goal, as stated earlier, and you have achieved it. Well done!
I recommend sending a thousand arrows down range then re-check. Enjoy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I couldn’t find much info on which way to move the rest for left and right bareshafts. Most charts just said spine too weak or stiff and had no rest adjustments for left and right. The one I did find is different to what you guys are saying. I think that is where my confusion started.

The attachment in your previous post has the horizontal rest adjustment backward. For horizontal corrections, chase the bareshaft with the rest (i.e., bareshaft hitting left of fletched shaft = move rest left). If you have to move the rest more than 1/8" away from the recommended centershot position (usually 13/16" from riser to center of arrow) to get a good tune, I'd recommend swapping "top hats" to adjust the horizontal positioning of the cams (https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/how-to-tune-a-mathews-bow-with-top-hat-shims#gs.tgcmez).

 

[Wodez]

I should have added I don’t think my spine is weak. Shooting 250 spine at 29” long with 125points + 45 insert. Not the issue so I was wanting to move the rest. But yes I now realize the chart I was following pictured above is backwards. Nothing conflicting now
Thanks

 

[Zac]

Referencing a weak and a stiff spine is just a way of saying right or left tear. Easton has said for a while that right and left tears don't traditionally mean what they did long ago.

 

[Samdemarais]

The attachment in your previous post has the horizontal rest adjustment backward. For horizontal corrections, chase the bareshaft with the rest (i.e., bareshaft hitting left of fletched shaft = move rest left). If you have to move the rest more than 1/8" away from the recommended centershot position (usually 13/16" from riser to center of arrow) to get a good tune, I'd recommend swapping "top hats" to adjust the horizontal positioning of the cams (https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/how-to-tune-a-mathews-bow-with-top-hat-shims#gs.tgcmez).

So just to dig a little deeper, does anyone understand why you move the point of the arrow to the left of the tail is already tearing right? This doesn’t make any sense and I don’t think it always works. If you have a bow with good nock travel and you are shooting clean and the correct spine, why would you move the rest/point left when it is already coming out of the bow to the left?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

So just to dig a little deeper, does anyone understand why you move the point of the arrow to the left of the tail is already tearing right? This doesn’t make any sense and I don’t think it always works. If you have a bow with good nock travel and you are shooting clean and the correct spine, why would you move the rest/point left when it is already coming out of the bow to the left?

The left-right tuning adjustments seem counterintuitive to me as well. I can reason my way into the vertical adjustments but not the horizontal ones. However, all the sources I've consulted (Gold Tip, Bow Shop Bible, Lancaster Archery, John Dudley, Aron Snyder), which are much more experienced and knowledgeable than me, all affirm the rest tuning adjustments I posted above (as does my personal tuning experience).

 

[Zac]

So just to dig a little deeper, does anyone understand why you move the point of the arrow to the left of the tail is already tearing right? This doesn’t make any sense and I don’t think it always works. If you have a bow with good nock travel and you are shooting clean and the correct spine, why would you move the rest/point left when it is already coming out of the bow to the left?

I have also wondered this. However if you have access to the Bow Shop Bible there is slow motion videos that go over all of this. I can't explain it in words actually. Yet when you watch the video it makes perfect sense.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've had bows where BH's were right of FP's at 60, and moving the rest right did nothing to fix that, but moving the rest left brought the two together and they came together perfectly. But I've also had to go the other way with bows as well, so I don't get too wrapped up in the charts.

 

[Samdemarais]

I have also wondered this. However if you have access to the Bow Shop Bible there is slow motion videos that go over all of this. I can't explain it in words actually. Yet when you watch the video it makes perfect sense.

How I have had it explained is that bows that have different spacing in the cams can create goofy “s” shaped nock travel and when the bow is at full draw and then releases there is no perfect way to tell where that power stroke is going to be and is pushes through in relation to the rest. Maybe the chase the broadhead or bare shaft works some or most of the time but I don’t think that is always the case. Anyways, not trying to start a debate just trying to learn how that logic actually works.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I have also wondered this. However if you have access to the Bow Shop Bible there is slow motion videos that go over all of this. I can't explain it in words actually. Yet when you watch the video it makes perfect sense.

That arrow flight video alone may be worth the cost of the app. I've had the Bow Shop Bible app for a while but hadn't actually watched that particular video until just now. The counterintuitive recommended rest adjustments now make perfect sense after seeing what's actually happening in slow motion.

Below is my attempt to illustrate what's going on based on that video and Corey's commentary. Dynamic bending of the arrow shaft also plays a role, which I didn't attempt to include in my illustration. Rest type is also a factor: the longer the arrow and rest are in contact, the more pronounced the effect of misalignment between the rest and string path.