Floorless or not to Floorless...

[Wojo14]

Wojo, it's not that easy
Now you have to decide do you really want the Cimm or maybe the Redcliffe. What about Kifarus Sawtooth or their 4 man? Deciding you want a floorless simply opens the door to a much bigger room of opportunities and choices. I changed my mind several times, came close to hitting the order button a couple different ones before I finally got the Redcliffe. At $800 on average it's not a simple question, unless your wallet is endless.

Then you gotta decide if you want the half liner, the bug net, them to seam seal it or you do it your self. Then the fun begins

Then the elk drop

Ya, I know. Way too many options.
I know I want it small enough when packed down, large enough for 2 man, stove and gear.
Oh, and I do NOT have endless pockets!
~Wojo

 

[Dinger]

Anyone else using floorless in snake country?

I'm an Aussie, we have snakes that rank up there in the serious snake charts.

I slept countless nights in the bush without a shelter when I was in the military, so did the other 100 guys in my unit....sometimes in a bag, most of time we'd just drop where you stopped and rack out.... Snakes have never been, and never were an issue whilst sleeping/stationary.

 

[COlineman78]

I slept countless nights in the bush without a shelter when I was in the military, so did the other 100 guys in my unit....sometimes in a bag, most of time we'd just drop where you stopped and rack out.... Snakes have never been, and never were an issue whilst sleeping/stationary.

The thing I would worry about is if you use a stove you are creating a warm environment that may attract them. If it were me you wouldn't catch me in the desert without a bivy at the very least if not a nest. If bugs/critters bother you just pick up a bug bivy. The Borah bug bivy is only 6 oz which is well worth it for peace of mind.

 

[b2one]

I am a native of AZ, and have moved around a fair bit. I spend about 40 nights a year sleeping on the ground. I have been sleeping either open or under a tipi for the last 8 or 9 years, almost exclusively. In the Southwest, I usually take a bivy at most. Snakes, scorpions, etc. have never bothered me. The worst I have seen is mouse tracks in the dirt around me when I wake up. I spent a couple years in east Texas, and that was the only time I ever questioned the floorless decision, after setting up camp in the dark and having to kill 3 black widows where I was wanting to sleep. The last 4 years I have lived in Montana, and for 3 seasons I prefer a tipi. Once there is over 3 feet of snow on the ground, I go back to a tent. They are easier to anchor down in those conditions, in my opinion. And the bears are hibernating during those months. The comment above about being able to roll out from under your shelter if a critter gets to sniffing around has definitely crossed my mind as well

 

[DFB]

I literally just switched last week. I bought a Jimmy Tarp Alpine from a friend on here. It's been pretty brisk in TN the last week or two so I decided to hike into some local public just for an over nighter to see how I liked it compared to my BA copper spur. There's no comparison, I'm a floorless guy now. I didn't feel closed in, which has always been a problem for me in tents, and with the airflow there was 0 condensation. I also stayed warm with the lows dipping into the 20's. Of course, I have a great bag and pad that help with that too. I have a Borah bivy on the way to finish out my system for buggy areas.

 

[SquidHC]

So is the primary appeal the ability to use a stove because there is no floor? Or is it just/also a little bit of weight savings, or? Sorry I've been doing some basic reading about floorless and I'm having a hard time not thinking it's just a popular trend. It's pretty easy to drop $800 on a tent and be like "Oh I love it!". Well you better love it for that much money. I don't know; having a hard time being convinced.

 

[USPcompact]

So is the primary appeal the ability to use a stove because there is no floor? Or is it just/also a little bit of weight savings, or? Sorry I've been doing some basic reading about floorless and I'm having a hard time not thinking it's just a popular trend. It's pretty easy to drop $800 on a tent and be like "Oh I love it!". Well you better love it for that much money. I don't know; having a hard time being convinced.

So let's completely ignore the stove aspect for a minute.

Bagged up, my Redcliff weighs about 5.25 pounds. I can walk into the shelter standing up. I don't have to remove my boots. Four people and gear fit easily. It sets up and breaks down in about 90 seconds.

Why in the world would I give up the above to use a traditional tent? I've yet to find a downside.

Add in the ability to keep the shelter warm, and I'd sooner vote for a communist than go back to a traditional tent.

 

[mrbillbrown]

So is the primary appeal the ability to use a stove because there is no floor? Or is it just/also a little bit of weight savings, or? Sorry I've been doing some basic reading about floorless and I'm having a hard time not thinking it's just a popular trend. It's pretty easy to drop $800 on a tent and be like "Oh I love it!". Well you better love it for that much money. I don't know; having a hard time being convinced.

It's probably situation dependent for everyone and their respective needs. Here in OK I don't plan to run my Tarp or Tipi often because of bugs. I will use the Copper Spur or a tarp and bivy if needing to go UL. However, after using a tarp and stove in CO archery elk last season I'm convinced I won't be going back up there without a heated shelter. Don't ever plan to carry a full tent up there again. Having the ability to dry clothes and gear, enter and exit with boots on, saving 2+# over a full tent, multiple uses (if carrying the 8x10 and bivy) etc..... it just makes more sense to me to use a heated shelter than anything a full tent could offer.

I was very skeptical of the floorless shelter and even mocked the thought quite a bit. It took watching a buddy use his Cimmaron while I used a 2 man full tent to start to understand the real benefits of floorless shelters. Pushed myself over the edge and bought my first system. I'm informed and educated now and completely converted/satisfied using a floorless shelter (and heated when necessary) when chasing elk in the high mtns of CO.

YMMV, Bill

 

[Akicita]

Okay so I'm also considering floorless. My main concern is that there tends to be a fair number of rattle snakes where I hunt. I really like that they can't just slide into my tent while I'm sleeping. Anyone else using floorless in snake country?

Over 50+ years I have had countless snake encounters all over the world including two dry strikes and one venomous strike by Western Diamond Backs, however I have never woken up with one in my bedroll or tent. . . Not saying it can't happen - just saying it has never happened to me over thousands of nights in snake country. I am always aware of snakes and do select my sites very carefully but beyond that I don't give it another thought. Many of our Hands swear by Dr. T's Snake Repellent and use it regularly in our cow camps during warmer months.

It's probably situation dependent for everyone and their respective needs.

YMMV, Bill

^^^BINGO^^^ I use both and it literally depends on the area and situation I am heading into. If I go above treeline in rocky terrain with a good chance of 50+mph winds, rain and or snow I am taking any one of my Hilleberg 4 season shelters. If I am covering a lot of distance and breaking camp often to do so I am taking a bivy, tarp or my Akto. If I am spending a lot of time in colder weather at or below treeline I am taking my Redcliff and stove (my wife refers to as the "Hacienda"). If I need a hunting base camp or cow camp I am taking my Colorado Tent Co., Wall Tent and potbelly.

If the good Lord told me I had to pick one and live with it for all occasions as a solo or two person shelter. . . I would take my Hilleberg Tarra only because it can be adapted and is well suited for any occasion from mild to severe weather.

 

[USPcompact]

it literally depends on the area and situation I am heading into.

Exactly.

At this point, I'm not planning to spend many (if any) nights above treeline. I don't have ready access to stock to pack in a wall tent. I don't typically need to often break camp to cover many miles in day.

A floorless shelter is perfect for the way I intend to use it at this point. That may change in the future and I may add other options, but right now it's the perfect fit for my needs.

That doesn't make it perfect for everyone, though I will admit to getting a chuckle out of a floorless shelter being called a fad.

 

[JP100]

It all depends on the conditions and environment you will be in.
There seems to be shot of guys who live in dry western states on here where floorless works very well and has a lot of bonuses to it.
In other conditions they can be less than ideal.
If most definitely just try and basic tarp. Cheap and easy and works fine. That way you can see if you like it then maybe buy a more dedicated tipi type shelter

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Ghost]

Over 50+ years I have had countless snake encounters all over the world including two dry strikes and one venomous strike by Western Diamond Backs, however I have never woken up with one in my bedroll or tent. . . Not saying it can't happen - just saying it has never happened to me over thousands of nights in snake country. I am always aware of snakes and do select my sites very carefully but beyond that I don't give it another thought. Many of our Hands swear by Dr. T's Snake Repellent and use it regularly in our cow camps during warmer months.



^^^BINGO^^^ I use both and it literally depends on the area and situation I am heading into. If I go above treeline in rocky terrain with a good chance of 50+mph winds, rain and or snow I am taking any one of my Hilleberg 4 season shelters. If I am covering a lot of distance and breaking camp often to do so I am taking a bivy, tarp or my Akto. If I am spending a lot of time in colder weather at or below treeline I am taking my Redcliff and stove (my wife refers to as the "Hacienda"). If I need a hunting base camp or cow camp I am taking my Colorado Tent Co., Wall Tent and potbelly.

If the good Lord told me I had to pick one and live with it for all occasions as a solo or two person shelter. . . I would take my Hilleberg Tarra only because it can be adapted and is well suited for any occasion from mild to severe weather.

That redcliff picture looks like it came from a video on youtube I commented on.

 

[FlyGuy]

I am a native of AZ, and have moved around a fair bit. I spend about 40 nights a year sleeping on the ground. I have been sleeping either open or under a tipi for the last 8 or 9 years, almost exclusively. In the Southwest, I usually take a bivy at most. Snakes, scorpions, etc. have never bothered me. The worst I have seen is mouse tracks in the dirt around me when I wake up. I spent a couple years in east Texas, and that was the only time I ever questioned the floorless decision, after setting up camp in the dark and having to kill 3 black widows where I was wanting to sleep. The last 4 years I have lived in Montana, and for 3 seasons I prefer a tipi. Once there is over 3 feet of snow on the ground, I go back to a tent. They are easier to anchor down in those conditions, in my opinion. And the bears are hibernating during those months. The comment above about being able to roll out from under your shelter if a critter gets to sniffing around has definitely crossed my mind as well

I bought a tut a couple months ago. Wasn't worried about bugs, just wanted a stove. My only concern with it has been, if I am ever lucky enough to draw an AZ or NV tag, that rattle snakes might be attracted to the heat of the stove and try to nestle into my bag with me. So, I'm glad to see your post about that not really being an issue for you. BUT, I live in TX and I hadn't even thought about the damn Black Widow Spiders being a problem until you pointed that out. So now I've got a whole new phobia to keep me twitching all night! I was bitten once (never saw it, not sure what type of spider it was, but BW was the assumption) and I was at the doctor everyday for two weeks getting the hole in my leg drained and repacked. Hurt like hell!

 

[Jimss]

I am curious how many guys from the Pacific NW and Alaska use floorless? I've been on numerous trips to Alaska over the years and am pretty sure my gear would end up a wet mess if I went floorless. It's pretty much impossible to find and keep a dry spot in the tundra or jungle country in SE Alaska. Not many places in Alaska would have dry firewood to burn...and it is pretty tough to find any firewood in tundra or high alpine country that is treeless. Obviously floorless works in dry environments but I'd rather stay high and dry when I'm in the backcountry in Alaska and in cold/wet weather while hunting in Wyo and Colo in the fall.

The last thing I want to do after a long day of hunting is to search/haul firewood and have my hunting clothes/gear smell like a smoke stack! How do you guys keep your gear and clothes from smelling like smoke? A third disadvantage to a floorless with stove would be having to haul a stove/pipes. I'd much rather light a compact propane stove and be done cooking in a matter of minutes.

With that said, I would have to say that floorless may be fine in dry areas....but there are definite disadvantages where it's wet, rainy, and snowy.

 

[FlyGuy]

Smelling like smoke isn't really an issue. Very, very little smoke inside the tent, if any. Goes out the chimney pipe. A campfire will have you smelling like smoke a whole lot faster, but I don't worry about that anyway. Some say it's a good cover scent, maybe it is, but by day two I stink like a boar hog anyway.

And hauling the stove & pipe is not much trouble, probably comes in at around 2 lbs and rolls/folds up to about the size of a notebook.

I haven't hunted Alaska, so I can't say what would be better. But I would think that the ability to dry out your wet gear (stove) would be a huge advantage. Tyvek and/or a bivy, and a helinox cot to get you elevated should help with the soggyness too. Of course, for any of that to work you've got to have wood. Doesn't take much, I never really use anything I can't break over my knee at the very largest, but if there is no wood then the stove is a paperweight.

 

[ellsworb]

I am curious how many guys from the Pacific NW and Alaska use floorless? I've been on numerous trips to Alaska over the years and am pretty sure my gear would end up a wet mess if I went floorless. It's pretty much impossible to find and keep a dry spot in the tundra or jungle country in SE Alaska. Not many places in Alaska would have dry firewood to burn...and it is pretty tough to find any firewood in tundra or high alpine country that is treeless. Obviously floorless works in dry environments but I'd rather stay high and dry when I'm in the backcountry in Alaska and in cold/wet weather while hunting in Wyo and Colo in the fall.

The last thing I want to do after a long day of hunting is to search/haul firewood and have my hunting clothes/gear smell like a smoke stack! How do you guys keep your gear and clothes from smelling like smoke? A third disadvantage to a floorless with stove would be having to haul a stove/pipes. I'd much rather light a compact propane stove and be done cooking in a matter of minutes.

With that said, I would have to say that floorless may be fine in dry areas....but there are definite disadvantages where it's wet, rainy, and snowy.

Live in Seattle. Hunt the PacNW. Here's my experience with floorless:

Site selection (as has been mentioned) is critical. We slept quite comfortably and dry at Kalaloch 10 days ago with the torrential rains and gale winds coming onshore in our 6-man. It was awesome.

Finding dry wood isn't terribly hard. . even in the Olympics (read: rainforest). But you learn. Typically when I set up I dedicate a single larger chunk of time to gathering and processing wood for several days of stove burn. Doing so allow me to select the the best (driest) pieces for the initial fuel and can keep a significant stockpile next to the stove drying. I'm amazed at how much vapor releases from my wood pile.

Or if you're close to a vehicle. . just carry a few pressed logs. They burn pretty nice as well (though I have had a dud).

I hang my clothes every night. None of them smell like smoke. That's just not an issue.

My opinion is the shelter actually EXCELS in the Wet, Rain and Snow. Especially in the snow.

It's not for everyone. But it's definitely for me!

 

[SHTF]

It's probably situation dependent for everyone and their respective needs. Here in OK I don't plan to run my Tarp or Tipi often because of bugs. I will use the Copper Spur or a tarp and bivy if needing to go UL. However, after using a tarp and stove in CO archery elk last season I'm convinced I won't be going back up there without a heated shelter. Don't ever plan to carry a full tent up there again. Having the ability to dry clothes and gear, enter and exit with boots on, saving 2+# over a full tent, multiple uses (if carrying the 8x10 and bivy) etc..... it just makes more sense to me to use a heated shelter than anything a full tent could offer.

I was very skeptical of the floorless shelter and even mocked the thought quite a bit. It took watching a buddy use his Cimmaron while I used a 2 man full tent to start to understand the real benefits of floorless shelters. Pushed myself over the edge and bought my first system. I'm informed and educated now and completely converted/satisfied using a floorless shelter (and heated when necessary) when chasing elk in the high mtns of CO.

YMMV, Bill

Glad I could convert you buddy. Yeah Bill Froze his ass off in his little tent while I was all snug as a bug in my Cimmeron. The benefits far out weigh the downfalls when using floorless.

 

[SHTF]

Our Elk Hunting camp last year. Cimmerons everywhere.

 

[Mike7]

It all depends on the conditions and environment you will be in.
There seems to be shot of guys who live in dry western states on here where floorless works very well and has a lot of bonuses to it.
In other conditions they can be less than ideal.
If most definitely just try and basic tarp. Cheap and easy and works fine. That way you can see if you like it then maybe buy a more dedicated tipi type shelter

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I could not disagree more. To me, every time I hear this repeated, none of this makes sense to me from my experiences. The main reason that I went floorless was to better stay dry in days on end of cold wet rain. In a tent, everything gets wet and stays wet every time you enter the shelter while it is raining, and enter with wet clothing/gear. Every day you come back from hunting in the rain is worse and worse. Water and mud get everywhere. Also if you have one leak in the floor, then any runoff or low spots trap that water inside the tent.

With floorless, I have none of these problems. I can pitch the shelter wherever I want or need to...right over logs, bushes, rocks, or creeks/runoff, and then sleep in the other part of the shelter. Bushes within arm' reach of your sleeping bag actually are nice for hanging clothes to dry, and rocks are nice for a cooking spot. At night in a storm, you can pee under the brush in the corner of your shelter without hardly leaving your sleeping bag. You can walk right in during a storm and put wet gear on a high dry spot or a separate gear tarp while keeping your sleeping area/tarp completely dry.

Unlike a tent floor, your sleeping tarp is relaceable. Also, you can raise the edges of your tarp and have water run right under the tarp and out the other side of the shelter if you need to. There is no magic that I have found with having the edge of your ground tarp sewed to the shelter wall like is basically the case with tents.

Now throwing self supporting tents out on deep snow and hopping in without having to make a bunch of snow anchors, that I find to be a big advantage of a tent.

 

[Wojo14]

I picked up a Mountainsmith LT off a fellow Rokslider. I will give it a try on some scouting strips this spring/summer.
If all works out, then I will drop some $ on a larger shelter.
What would a good one be for 2 men, gear for a week, stove, with some roominess and standing ability.
I like the TiGoat 6.5. Good weight and size.
~Wojo